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Do the Irish not use food dehydrators?

CelticRambler

First off: no, this isn't really a "kitchen gadget" question

- I'm curious as to why there aren't any threads on the topic in the food forum (well, there are maybe eight posts in total over ten years ... ) and thought it might be better to ask those at the production end instead!

And secondly, I pushed the "buy now" button in the middle of the night, and mine is on its way, so too late to tell me I've bought the wrong one ...

Anyhow: I would have thought that, of all the countries in Europe, Ireland would be the one where a dehydrator would be particularly useful and popular for productive gardeners; and yet there's next to no reviews about them from Irish bloggers, no significant opinions on this site, and precious few on offer through Irish retailers. Why is that?

The motivation for my purchase was the competing challenges of harvesting, preserving and storage, particularly in respect of herbs, tomatoes and figs, all of which tend to arrive in massive quantities at exactly the time I don't want to be slaving over a hot preserving pan, or having the oven adding to an already saunafied kitchen. That, coupled with the problem of finding space in the freezer for the veg that does get chopped and blanched, when the last lot still hasn't been used up.

I experimented last year with dried grapes (still with the seeds in, made lovely zingy raisins) and figs (worked quite well, some of the time) - on the fan oven's lowest heat. Is that how the rest of you do it, rather than use a dedicated box, or is dehydration really just not a done thing in Ireland?

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magicbastarder

what is this dark magick of which you speak?

magicbastarder

in seriousness though, i'm wary of the oven now - i saw someone (i think james wong) say on twitter that if you want to reduce the environmental footprint of your food, he suggested a) eat less meat, b) waste less and c) don't use your oven. this was in relation to a debate where he maintained that food miles are vastly overstated as a concern about the environment, compared to other issues.

anyway, i had quite a bit of success this year (especially in around may, when i cut back a heavily overgrown oregano plant) in drying herbs in the dash and then the back window of the car on hot days. the car wasn't really being used anyway, and putting the herbs out in the morning would result in perfectly dried herbs by the evening.

CelticRambler

I don't know who James Wong is, but if he thinks I'm going to give up baking bread in my oven ... :pac:

Besides, if he's referring to the electricity consumption, my electricity provider has given up trying to give me helpful tips on how to reduce it because I'm already 75% below average for comparable households in my area! And the plan would be to run the dehydrator off home-grown solar (eventually).

Anyhow, I've also had the experience of fast-drying herbs - I have a windowsill that will typically reach about 50-60°C by 11am in the summer and stay there till 7pm. Quite interesting watching plums literally cooking in their own juice because you balanced them there while you went to check on something some hours previously ...

- but this is not particularly good for careful, repeatable preservation, and especially if instructions need to be given to miscellaneous others.

[Deleted User]

We bought one this summer. It was non stop on for about a month.
Now its just on and off.

The cat looks a bit shrivelled up though !

CelticRambler

What type did you get - the front-opening "fan oven" type, or the bottom heated stackable ring type?

And will you be using it again next year? :eek: (I'm assuming the current "on and off" status is due to a lack of harvest rather than lack of interest? )

milout

My mother in law was gifted one donkeys ago, it sat in the attic for years until she gifted it on to me.

I wasn't growing anything at the time, so it got moved on once more to my Dad, who loves the thing.

He's made lots of fruit leathers and dried tomatoes with it. He's really into the walking, so handy snacks when out on the long walks.

It did however leave Ireland as part of the final hand off, so maybe there is an Irish aversion to the things.

[Deleted User]

CelticRambler wrote: »

What type did you get - the front-opening "fan oven" type, or the bottom heated stackable ring type?

And will you be using it again next year? :eek: (I'm assuming the current "on and off" status is due to a lack of harvest rather than lack of interest? )

I got an arizona biochef from amazon Germany.

Has a variable temp gauge and timer.also has metal shelves and a front door.
All are important features.

Lack of harvest is the issue though we are finding new things to dry like orange skins which can be powdered and used in baking

CelticRambler

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Has a variable temp gauge and timer.also has metal shelves and a front door.
All are important features.

That's what my research had identified. I've ordered a 10-tray Vita5, very similar to the Biochef by the looks of it.

Any particular reason why you ordered from .de instead of .co.uk?

[Deleted User]

CelticRambler wrote: »

That's what my research had identified. I've ordered a 10-tray Vita5, very similar to the Biochef by the looks of it.

Any particular reason why you ordered from .de instead of .co.uk?

They wouldn't ship here. De had free shipping with DHL and a tenner voucher off.

magicbastarder

what's the power consumption on those like?

CelticRambler

They're rated at around 600-1000W (heating element and fan) and would be in use for 10-24 hours continuously, but with a thermostat controlling whether or not the element is actually in use, the total consumption would normally be significantly less than the theoretical max. There's one model that has two elements, allowing for more efficient heating of half the drying chamber, but that's at the top end of the price range. One reviewer of my model said it costs them about 60cts per 24-hour drying cycle (using relatively cheap French electricity) When I get it, I'll try to remember to check my smart meter while it's in operation to see what it's pulling. Could be tricky, though, isolating a day's consumption from everything else that'll be running in the coming weeks.

magicbastarder

i think that's an example of the notion that food miles is far less of an issue than people think.
i'd hazard a guess that locally grown tomatoes treated in one of those is far more environmentally damaging than tomatoes grown in spain, and dried using free ambient temperature there.

CelticRambler

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think that's an example of the notion that food miles is far less of an issue than people think.
i'd hazard a guess that locally grown tomatoes treated in one of those is far more environmentally damaging than tomatoes grown in spain, and dried using free ambient temperature there.

Hmm. I understand the argument, but I'm not sure that using Spanish tomatoes is the best way to make that particular point!

The environmental cost of those, locally before they've moved a single mile, is on a par with Californian avocado plantations.

As there's a very real possibility that we'll be getting no more tomatoes from Spain by the end of the next decade, chances are the someone will be trucking Dutch tomatoes down there to dry in the sun for a week, which will change the equation anyway ...

My approach to both production and consumption is (much to the annoyance of economic planners) that as much as possible should take place and stay on-site. As it is, I've reduced my "black bag" waste to less than 0.25kg per month, so I feel I've earned enough carbon credits to offset a few nuclear kWh burnt in the oven. In due course, I'm aiming to have most of my crop processing and storage powered by sun in one way or another.

magicbastarder

it's just that - taking the figures you mention; let's say they run for a quarter the time and 'coast' for the other three quarters (i am just making a guess here as to this ratio, tbf), if they run at 1kW, and are 'on' for 24 hours, that's 6kWh, or akin to leaving a kettle on for three hours. or showering in an electric shower for nearly an hour .
obviously, the equation could change significantly if i've (which is likely) underestimated their efficiency.

CelticRambler

Yep ... but the food is here, on site, and has to be preserved in one way or another if it's not to go to waste. I'm not going to send it down to Spain to dry, I can't guarantee that I'll have the right level of sun on my own windowsill, so either I put it in my big oven (1.5kW) for the same length of time and hope not to repeat the 60% unsatisfactory results of last year, or burn through an equivalent number of joules bottling and sterilising and blanching and freezing - not to mention all the water used in that process. Or make a one-off investment in what is - hopefully - a more efficient "right tool for the job" machine.

Sure, overall there might be some advantages to driving my personal vehicle (1 person, 50km round trip, fuel burnt, rubber eroded) once a fortnight to the supermarket to buy "efficiently" grown Spanish tomatoes wrapped in plastic (no choice, the shop insists I put them in a bag for weighing) ... but I can't in good conscience justify the damage those industrial growers are doing to the environment down there. I'm not a hard-core eco-warrior, and there's certainly an awful lot of dubious claims spouted in respect of who and what is most responsible for disrupting the planet's balance; the best that I can do is create a largely self-sustaining micro-eco-system where I can feed up to 20 people at a time during a global pandemic!

Received two texts this morning, one telling me my new machine will be delivered on 07/12 ... or today, sometime between 08:00 and 17:00 ... :rolleyes:

magicbastarder

easy - grow turnips!

CelticRambler

Actually, I think you might have given me the explanation I was looking for, albeit in a sideways manner. Traditionally, Irish vegetable gardens wouldn't have produced much in the way of the high-water-content fruit and veg most suited to dehydration. Extrapolating the immersion-left-on paranoia and a high-ish cost of electricity, the idea of running an oven for 24 hours to dry out some exotic imports is probably just too heretical for the average household! :pac:

blackbox

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's just that - taking the figures you mention; let's say they run for a quarter the time and 'coast' for the other three quarters (i am just making a guess here as to this ratio, tbf), if they run at 1kW, and are 'on' for 24 hours, that's 6kWh, or akin to leaving a kettle on for three hours. or showering in an electric shower for nearly an hour .
obviously, the equation could change significantly if i've (which is likely) underestimated their efficiency.

The energy is only wasted if the device is outdoors or if your room is already too warm. Otherwise the energy goes to heating your room, saving on other inputs. It's the same for incandescent light bulbs - where do people think the "wasted" energy goes?

However, in this case I'm not sure that I'd want all of the moisture that comes out of the fruit staying in my room.

CelticRambler

When it's 35°C outside and you've all the windows, doors and shutters closed, desperately trying to keep the indoor temperature at less than 25°C, the last thing you need is "wasted" energy heating the place up!

But again, this contributes to my motivation to move towards a low-temperature, almost autonomous preserving technique, because having to supervise five saucepans boiling away throughout an August afternoon is definitely worse than leaving a warm box to whirr away to itself during the night.

magicbastarder

blackbox wrote: »

Otherwise the energy goes to heating your room, saving on other inputs. It's the same for incandescent light bulbs - where do people think the "wasted" energy goes?

this also depends on how efficient that heat generation is, surely?
is a 60W bulb where 55W of the energy wasted as heat, an efficient way of generating that heat?
anyway, that's OT.

magicbastarder

CelticRambler wrote: »

Actually, I think you might have given me the explanation I was looking for, albeit in a sideways manner. Traditionally, Irish vegetable gardens wouldn't have produced much in the way of the high-water-content fruit and veg most suited to dehydration. Extrapolating the immersion-left-on paranoia and a high-ish cost of electricity, the idea of running an oven for 24 hours to dry out some exotic imports is probably just too heretical for the average household! :pac:

this is true, i guess. the traditional way of dealing with soft fruits would be jams and preserves, and there's no tradition of drying high moisture content fruit or veg, simply because it was never really possible.

(goes off to google productivity of growing nuts, etc., vs fruit when calculating best use of land)

CJhaughey

I have made a dehydrator for drying Biltong. Its a relatively simple affair consisting of a plastic box with hanging rails and a computer fan installed on the lid to draw air through the machine. A simple old fashioned 60w incandescent bulb provides a limited amount of heating.
Its possible to dry 25mm thick slices of beef in a week with this basic system, of course it is not suitable for drying soft fruits etc because of the lack of plastic racks internally but the actual principle is the same of warm air moving over a surface continuously to wick away moisture.
I think the Harvest maid ones are the best from experiences in other countries but I haven't found them to be available here.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

(goes off to google productivity of growing nuts, etc., vs fruit when calculating best use of land)

based on studies in oregon (reasonably similar climate to ireland, IIRC) at the top end of a yield, it's a ton of dry nuts per acre.
going on bare calorie content; halve the ton just to make it more realistic, that's 1,200 days worth of calories per acre, or enough for an adult male off less than a third of an acre. it's not the most efficient use of land going, obviously. you could underplant the hazel though, i guess.

CelticRambler

You'd have a fierce set of jaw muscles after eating nothing but hazelnuts for 1200 days!

CJhaughey

CelticRambler wrote: »

You'd have a fierce set of jaw muscles after eating nothing but hazelnuts for 1200 days!

Try making some Guianduja out of them, basically the real version of Nutella.
Awesome taste even made with cheap turkish hazelnuts.
I made some last week, well worth doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539ynhsbboY&t=710s

magicbastarder

most people don't know what a fresh hazelnut tastes like, which is a pity. they're so crisp and juicy compared to dried ones.
i used to live in phibsboro and collected turkish hazelnuts in blessington basin park. people looked at me like i had two heads.

macraignil

magicbastarder wrote: »

easy - grow turnips!

I think this is a very good point. There are lots of traditional Irish grown vegetables that are grown through the year to be harvested through the colder months of the year like turnip, swedes, cabbage, kale, chard and others. I have successfully harvested beetroot, parsnips and Jerusalem artichoke through winter. The vegetable garden is not going to have a whole lot of growth over winter but for what is already established the out doors can act like a big fridge with our milder winters than some other countries meaning a lot of things can still be harvested. There is also the tradition of clamping root veg or a root cellar to have an amount of the crops cold and preserved away from vermin but still accessible when weather does not suit outdoor garden work. In my opinion food dehydrators were not a part of a viable preservation tradition in Ireland when dry weather to do the drying would be so scarce.

[Deleted User]

magicbastarder wrote: »

most people don't know what a fresh hazelnut tastes like, which is a pity. they're so crisp and juicy compared to dried ones.
i used to live in phibsboro and collected turkish hazelnuts in blessington basin park. people looked at me like i had two heads.

We used to pick lime flowers in the phoenix park.

We reduced our garden waste no end this year.

Dried pea pods and carrot tops for stews.

Dried herbs for cooking and teas.

Dried orange skins for baking.

Dried marshmallows for the sugar rush
The list is endless.

Edit, not to forget the berries we foraged and don't have to freeze

Funsterdelux

magicbastarder wrote: »

most people don't know what a fresh hazelnut tastes like, which is a pity. they're so crisp and juicy compared to dried ones.
i used to live in phibsboro and collected turkish hazelnuts in blessington basin park. people looked at me like i had two heads.

Haha, nutcase!

We were lucky to have plenty of hazels growing in the hedgerows and woods where i grew up, NW Meath. My granduncle even had woods with loads of hazels. We'd go down and pick them. Made hazelnut butter a few times. I used to keep some in a shoe box in the bedroom with a vice grips for opening them.

LaChatteGitane

We have a food dehydrator and it has been in full use for the last two summers.
It's my husband's job

, I guess he finds it therapeutic.
We've got cavaillon, pears, apples, raspberries, figs!, loads of figs, blackberries, mirabelles.... Also grapes with one seed in each, which turns out much bigger as the grape shrinks into a dried raisin

which is not very pleasant to eat.
Like you Celticrambler, we live in France now and the produce is like a cornucopia during summer and autumn. Freezer space is also at a premium.
I'll be making a fig, walnut and lemon preserve later today. Relieve the freezer from some of the figs that are taking up so much space, and how many walnuts can one eat ? Last year we collected about 500 kg of walnuts, this year a bit less.
We let the walnuts dry and again, my husband cracks and peels and vacuum seals.:P