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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

With that font, I'll never be able to take Phil's posts seriously from now on.

I didn't notice it until now but now I can't stop laughing

DrPhilG

Black_Knight wrote: »

With that font, I'll never be able to take Phil's posts seriously from now on.

You mean you did before? What were you thinking?

innrain

https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/02/hyundai-presents-e-gmp-electric-car-platform/
Beside the marketing drama something else caught my eye
Vehicle-to-vehicle charging that sounds desirable. Interesting enough is a 800V platform

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/02/hyundai-presents-e-gmp-electric-car-platform/
Beside the marketing drama something else caught my eye
Vehicle-to-vehicle charging that sounds desirable. Interesting enough is a 800V platform

If it can do vehicle to vehicle at 11kW that's pretty cool. I wonder if it'll have the inlet/outlet plugs that some other cars have or will it be through the same port.

If the former it could allow you to daisy chain 2 cars to a single chargepoint, albeit at 50% charging speed. Useful for people who get a second EV but not a second charger

I like how they said it can also support 220V sockets (and presumably 230V). Hopefully it'll be able to get up to a decent wattage, 2-3kW @ 230V should be doable if the system can output 11kW 3 phase

ELM327

I think this is as useful as V2G tech (ie not at all)

pdpmur

ELM327 wrote: »

I think this is as useful as V2G tech (ie not at all)

... but potentially very useful for vehicle-to-house - so during hours of peak rate electricity costs the battery could supply the house, and then re-charge from the grid during off-peak hours. The car battery doubles-up as temporary "fixed" battery storage for the house at no extra cost.

the_amazing_raisin

pdpmur wrote: »

... but potentially very useful for vehicle-to-house - so during hours of peak rate electricity costs the battery could supply the house, and then re-charge from the grid during off-peak hours. The car battery doubles-up as temporary "fixed" battery storage for the house at no extra cost.

If anything it's better than v2g because v2g requires an expensive DC charger with an inverter to convert the dc voltage to ac.

In this setup the car handles that, so the charger just needs to allow the car to discharge to the house.

Also if it can output 11kW then it'll be able to cover a lot of a houses power needs

ELM327

pdpmur wrote: »

... but potentially very useful for vehicle-to-house - so during hours of peak rate electricity costs the battery could supply the house, and then re-charge from the grid during off-peak hours. The car battery doubles-up as temporary "fixed" battery storage for the house at no extra cost.

V2H is very useful! V2G is useless.

V2H would have to be done by AC though. No house needs 400v DC

Water John

Just shooting the breeze on it but say one had a 73kwh and charged it full with PV solar by day, would it cope easily with running a house in the evening?

the_amazing_raisin

Water John wrote: »

Just shooting the breeze on it but say one had a 73kwh and charged it full with PV solar by day, would it cope easily with running a house in the evening?

Well with all these things it depends on what you're running. Typical Irish home with oil or gas heating will probably just have some cooking, laundry appliances, TV and lights. As long as they don't get run together then the car could potentially supply them all and still have plenty of battery left over

I'm also assuming here that the car can output something like 7kW to the house on single phase, in other words it can discharge at the same speed it charges

If you're running a heat pump or electric shower then you'd probably go over the 7kW and need to top up from the grid. Your house would need some sort of load management to do this

73kWh would certainly be plenty for a house, consider most home solar batteries would be a fraction of that size.

You could be even lazier and skip the PV, find a local charger that's free and charge the car to full there, drive it home and enjoy some free electricity

graememk

The current versions of V2G all the hardware for taking DC from the batteries (inverter etc etc) is fixed in the house,

so it can just act like a standard grid tied storage inverter and can monitor house usage and balance as necessary

Besides, you dont want to be carrying all that extra weight in the car!

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

The current versions of V2G all the hardware for taking DC from the batteries (inverter etc etc) is fixed in the house,

so it can just act like a standard grid tied storage inverter and can monitor house usage and balance as necessary

Besides, you dont want to be carrying all that extra weight in the car!

Well it depends on the car, for example if you use AC motors then you'll already have an inverter in the car. It's possible you could have this pull double duty by outputting power when stationary

unkel

Bidirectional AC is extremely useful! You then just need a smart charge point in the house and you basically have a free 85kWh (or whatever the capacity of the battery in your car is) power wall.

Store excess solar PV in your car (or charge your car up for free at work, at a Tesla supercharger, at a free supermarket charger, etc.) and power your home at night for free (or during power cuts)

And another thing the Hyundai press release casually mentions: a 73kWh Ioniq. With some careful driving you could get close to 1000km out of that on a charge :eek:

Water John

Sales of fully EV have passed 0.5m in 10 months of the year in Europe;
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/03/more-than-500000-full-electric-cars-sold-in-europe-in-10-months

whippet

This morning was the first morning i've used the pre-condition feature on my PHEV - I can't understand how in 25 years of motoring I have ever survived without this feature.

To think back to when I did commute a lot - the wasted hours in the cold scraping ice, defrosting windows and generally freezing for the start of the drive.

AndyBoBandy

Yeah, I heard a few diesel's turning over this morning earlier than usual while still in bed, so simply reached for my phone and defrosted the car and warmed the cabin & seats up before even getting out of bed....

whippet

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Yeah, I heard a few diesel's turning over this morning earlier than usual while still in bed, so simply reached for my phone and defrosted the car and warmed the cabin & seats up before even getting out of bed....

i've mine now set for every school morning !

My bother in sweden obvously has a precondition button on his key for his diesel - he said life would be impossible during the winter without it !

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Yeah, I heard a few diesel's turning over this morning earlier than usual while still in bed, so simply reached for my phone and defrosted the car and warmed the cabin & seats up before even getting out of bed....

This. I never pre-heat the car, you'd need it maybe 5-10 mornings a year in this country

Looked at my phone, interior of the car was 2C, switched the heat on on my phone and by the time I went into the car less than 10 minutes later it was a balmy 20C in there and car fully defrosted

Do the people of those stinky noisy cancerous diesels realise that if their car is stolen with the key in the ignition and the engine running, that their insurance will not pay out?

whippet

unkel wrote: »

This. I never pre-heat the car, you'd need it maybe 5-10 mornings a year in this country

Interior was 2C, switched the heat on on my phone and by the time I went into the car less than 10 minutes later it was a balmy 20C in there and car fully defrosted

Do the people of those stinky noisy cancerous diesels realise that if their car is stolen with the key in the ignition and the engine running, that their insurance will not pay out?

I few years back an neighbour of mine posted a facebook status saying how his BMW was stolen from his driveway while he was preheating it - talking about how it happening in a 5 minute window and pleading for everyone to keep an eye out for his car.

Obviously someone had a quite word with him and an hour later the facebook status was quickly changed to 'my keys were ripped out of my hands as I was carrying my child in to the car'

luckily the car was found a couple of days later parked up .. but i'm sure the initial call to the guards would have been the version that would have gone on the insurance claim.

AndyBoBandy

Before going EV (and when herself used to go to the office once a week), We had (and still have) a 320d, and when the batteries worked in both fobs, I'd go out and start it, and lock it with the other fob, and happy days....

Then when one of the fobs would no longer charge, gobsh1te here would make a cup of tea and sit in the car for 20 minutes at 6:20am in the morning, warming it up!! All out of the goodness of my heart!!

F*** Me Diesels take ages to warm up when just idling...

unkel

Ah bless. Hope your other half realises she got herself a keeper?

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

Ah bless. Hope your other half realises she got herself a keeper?

Off Topic but when I was assigned in Lithuania for 18 months, and when we were courting...... I used to pass her apartment on my way to work, so after a heavy snowfall, I'd stop off and clear the snow from her car......

So she knew before she even moved to Ireland....

(I of course, had underground parking at my place)

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

This. I never pre-heat the car, you'd need it maybe 5-10 mornings a year in this country

Well that's the beauty of the scheduled pre-condition — if the car doesn't need heated, it won't get heated. Also your battery will be pre-conditioned, and even if it's not cold enough often to frost over your windows it can regularly be cold enough to lower battery efficiency.

I set mine for 8am every weekday when I got the car and then went on with my life — it uses barely any charge and if it's already at optimal temperature then it won't do anything anyway.

Even in Ireland there will be plenty of sunny days where the car gets too warm and stuffy inside too.

unkel

Too hot and stuffy by 8AM? In Ireland?

graememk

unkel wrote: »

Too hot and stuffy by 8AM? In Ireland?

Not by 8am.. but maybe by 5pm!

Was freezing up here y'day evening, I preheated the car for the Mrs from the app, as she says herself, she never remembers..

Was getting the de icer from the boot then noticed the windows were clear :-)

Black_Knight

EV just heats up so quick I don't preheat... Well, I rarely charge so o effectively preheat. Car on, heat on, go back inside and get my daughter's shoes and coat on and we're away in a toasty car

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Too hot and stuffy by 8AM? In Ireland?

Yes! The sun rises very early through most of May-September in Dublin, and our car is usually in a spot where it catches a lot of morning rays.

But like I said, it doesn't really matter — if the car needs pre-conditioned, it will pre-condition. If it doesn't, then the energy expenditure will be near zero.

I don't want to worry about whether it will need pre-conditioned every day, I just program it, and let it do its thing.

ELM327

I generally (pre covid) used to wake up, set the heater on the app, go about my morning routine and in the 20-30 mins before leaving for work it would be 30 degrees + in the car, and the battery would be heated so I would have max regen.

Couldnt be bothered about scheduling etc as I dont work set hours.
That was another pain about the Ioniq, no app, and the heating schedule only worked if plugged in.

Kramer

Most PHEVs now have that convenience too, removing another hitherto, BEV only benefit. BMW's system is 90% there, compared to Tesla.

Scheduling/preheating/remote HVAC control through the app & doesn't need to be plugged in to work etc.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Most PHEVs now have that convenience too, removing another hitherto, BEV only benefit. BMW's system is 90% there, compared to Tesla.

Scheduling/preheating/remote HVAC control through the app & doesn't need to be plugged in to work etc.

Perhaps so, but a tiny PHEV battery will be depleted very quickly when not plugged in and the car's 7kW heat pump is heating the cabin