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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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Junkyard Tom

When the time comes for a vote it will be interesting to see who will ally themselves with the likes of Sammy Wilson, Gregory Campbell, the UDA, British Nationalists, and assorted headbangers. Good luck with a return to normality if the southern unionists/partitionists 'win'.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

When the time comes for a vote it will be interesting to see who will ally themselves with the likes of Sammy Wilson, Gregory Campbell, the UDA, British Nationalists, and assorted headbangers. Good luck with a return to normality if the southern unionists/partitionists 'win'.

If it looks like the Republic are not willing to pay for it there is no way the SoS will allow a border poll in the first place.

Hqrry113

Once again one of the most true sayings our nation has ever known bares meaning even now "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace".

For as long as England occupy any part of Ireland there will always be trouble only when we remove that occupation can we truly come together as a sovereign people and witness our true potential as a nation.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

If it looks like the Republic are not willing to pay for it there is no way the SoS will allow a border poll in the first place.

Go stand with Sammy, Gregory, Dee Stitt, Jolene Bunting, and the Love 'Ulster' crowd.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

If it looks like the Republic are not willing to pay for it there is no way the SoS will allow a border poll in the first place.

Is that a prerequisite to having a poll?

I missed that in the GFA. Care to point it out to me?

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Go stand with Sammy, Gregory, Dee Stitt, Jolene Bunting, and the Love 'Ulster' crowd.

Best you can do? I'll be in a Republic either way and a Union too, the EU !

Blazer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, that I do know...nobody has the actual cost. That will only be worked out when the British actually tell us how much the place actually costs them when you take out all the contributions to the UK that will not be there in a UI.

We don't know what level of support will also come from the EU and elsewhere.

You were on another thread last year claiming huge financial benefits to Ireland for unification.
I’m guessing you’ve dropped that claim now since everyone knows it was a complete crock of nonsense and the magical sums would magically appear out of thin air.
Now you claim no one knows the cost.
But we do. It would cost too much simply without cutting at least 20% of the public sector in both areas. And that’s just a start.
And no one in NI working in the public sector will ever vote for knowing they could potentially lose their job.
Plus losing the NHS benefits. I know they get to swap that for our marvellous HSE but I don’t think that would swing it.
I always wonder where do they do these polls.
I reckon certainly not the working class.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Best you can do? I'll be in a Republic either way and a Union too, the EU !

As the British have found out, partition has cost them and stopped them doing what they want to do. God knows they tried.

I think there'll be a sea change in opinion here when partition threatens our place in the EU and threatens to cost us.

FrancieBrady

Blazer wrote: »

You were on another thread last year claiming huge financial benefits to Ireland for unification.
I’m guessing you’ve dropped that claim now since everyone knows it was a complete crock of nonsense and the magical sums would magically appear out of thin air.
Now you claim no one knows the cost.
But we do. It would cost too much simply without cutting at least 20% of the public sector in both areas. And that’s just a start.
And no one in NI working in the public sector will ever vote for knowing they could potentially lose their job.
Plus losing the NHS benefits. I know they get to swap that for our marvellous HSE but I don’t think that would swing it.
I always wonder where do they do these polls.
I reckon certainly not the working class.

I do believe the investment would pay off - 'financial benefits'. Never hid that at all.

Try again.

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is that a prerequisite to having a poll?

I missed that in the GFA. Care to point it out to me?

It has to be likely to pass and is at the whim of the SoS. So yes, it's in the GFA.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Go stand with Sammy, Gregory, Dee Stitt, Jolene Bunting, and the Love 'Ulster' crowd.

Only recognise one of those names.Sammy is a work colleague of Gerry Kelly and Conor Murphy in the British public service?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It has to be likely to pass and is at the whim of the SoS. So yes, it's in the GFA.

The SoS could call a poll tomorrow and doesn't have to give a reason. He/she is not constrained, as the courts have said. We have been over this before.

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

Can we have a wee link please

Google it

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The SoS could call a poll tomorrow and doesn't have to give a reason. He/she is not constrained, as the courts have said. We have been over this before.

The scenario I posted is within the terms of the GFA. Doesn't mean it will happen.

declanflynn

jh79 wrote: »

The poll from Apr 19 asked if people wanted a UI too and a similar result to the above was reported. That support fell off a cliff when asked if they would pay extra in taxes (73% dropped to 37%).

A poll about paying tax is just silly, of course people dont want to pay extra tax, I'm suprised that 73 didn't drop to 3

declanflynn

Blazer wrote: »

You were on another thread last year claiming huge financial benefits to Ireland for unification.
I’m guessing you’ve dropped that claim now since everyone knows it was a complete crock of nonsense and the magical sums would magically appear out of thin air.
Now you claim no one knows the cost.
But we do. It would cost too much simply without cutting at least 20% of the public sector in both areas. And that’s just a start.
And no one in NI working in the public sector will ever vote for knowing they could potentially lose their job.
Plus losing the NHS benefits. I know they get to swap that for our marvellous HSE but I don’t think that would swing it.
I always wonder where do they do these polls.
I reckon certainly not the working class.

Theres f all difference between the NHS and our health service, the way Brits go on about their health service you would think it was the best in the world, it's far from it

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The scenario I posted is within the terms of the GFA. Doesn't mean it will happen.

So is the SoS calling a border poll if his/her toast hits the ground butter side up.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So is the SoS calling a border poll if his/her toast hits the ground butter side up.

Francie, you already know it's at the whim if the SoS. If I remember correctly you said it was the only possible way to do it after the court's judgement.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, you already know it's at the whim if the SoS. If I remember correctly you said it was the only possible way to do it after the court's judgement.

The only possible way to do what?

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The only possible way to do what?

How to make a decision on the border poll. It's at the whim of the SoS as you know. Some on here thought something a bit more structured would be better.

Assuming the SoS doesn't go rogue, the British government have said (linked to it a few days ago) that opinion polls and number of nationalist MLA might be used to come to that decision. They are hardly going to call a poll if it's likely to fail in the Republic.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

How to make a decision on the border poll. It's at the whim of the SoS as you know. Some on here thought something a bit more structured would be better.

Assuming the SoS doesn't go rogue, the British government have said (linked to it a few days ago) that opinion polls and number of nationalist MLA might be used to come to that decision. They are hardly going to call a poll if it's likely to fail in the Republic.

The British, as we know, will do what ever suits them at the time, they care not a jot for this island's welfare as we also know.

Scoondal

At the moment Britain doesn't want Northern Ireland and The Repuplic of Ireland doesn't want it either.
Why is that ?

BonnieSituation

Scoondal wrote: »

At the moment Britain doesn't want Northern Ireland and The Repuplic of Ireland doesn't want it either.
Why is that ?

You speaking on behalf of everyone again?

Janey, this thread is swarmed with Partitionists the last couple of days. What's happened?

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

It has to be likely to pass and is at the whim of the SoS. So yes, it's in the GFA.

Right...

So, you're just gonna add in presumptions there for the SoS to take consideration of? I see...

I guess whatever floats your boat.

downcow

Originally Posted by downcow View Post
Can we have a wee link please

declanflynn wrote: »

Google it

just as i thought declan - it exists in your head

downcow

Scoondal wrote: »

At the moment Britain doesn't want Northern Ireland and The Repuplic of Ireland doesn't want it either.
Why is that ?

hahaha
That's like a boy who has been chasing a girl for 100 years and has failed to woo her, saying he didn't want her anyway.

If you don't want us would you please stop stalking us. It embarrassing. we are happy with our current partner. Go find someone else. Italy might be up for grabs

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

hahaha
That's like a boy who has been chasing a girl for 100 years and has failed to woo her, saying he didn't want her anyway.

If you don't want us would you please stop stalking us. It embarrassing. we are happy with our current partner. Go find someone else. Italy might be up for grabs

The projection here is strong. The unrequited nature of Irish Unionists relationship with the "mainland" is so sad.

saabsaab

We should try to give the Unionists a warm reception whenever the unification happens. Apart from what I said already about flags and anthems perhaps the Queen of England could do ceremonial occasions with Michael D or perhaps share on a week on week off basis? Queen opens new shopping centre in Cork or M D opens a new school in the Shankill Road.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The projection here is strong. The unrequited nature of Irish Unionists relationship with the "mainland" is so sad.

Yeah I won't completely deny that. But at least our boy has married us hahahah

We might be a bolox to live with and all that, but we are not chasing someone who has rejected us again and again and again for 100 years hahahah - have a wee bit of respect for yourselves and stop stalking this wee place you find so attractive

downcow

saabsaab wrote: »

We should try to give the Unionists a warm reception whenever the unification happens. Apart from what I said already about flags and anthems perhaps the Queen of England could do ceremonial occasions with Michael D or perhaps share on a week on week off basis? Queen opens new shopping centre in Cork or M D opens a new school in the Shankill Road.

You want us as well saabsaab don't you. What do you find so sexy about us?