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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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UAEguy2020

awec wrote: »

After Christmas I think.

It is only a matter of time before Bobby Balacoune is capped for Ireland. He is the real deal. I do not often blow smoke up the arse of players, but Balacoune will be a regular for Ireland. Doesn't get the hype cause he didn't go to one of the Dublin schools.

He'll be capped more than Keenan and Lowe.

He is a player who completely substance over style. Absolutely rock solid in defence and scores tries. The perfect test winger.

Yep, huge fan of him. Has that real pass and try scoring instinct that we really could do with!

Ardillaun

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Would have completely agreed before he sheared his muscle off his bone. Let's see how he comes back. But if he's good as before - yeah, he's the business.

That’s always the worry, especially for a speedster.

bilston

:DAye, you'd have to worry about the nature of his injury.

But the fact that his return may be quicker than anticipated is potentially good news.

The thing that stands out for me that awec talked about it is his defence. He is like the anti Stockdale in that regard. Usually young wingers are great attacking weapons, but defensively are suspect, and that is the norm in fairness. But Balacoune...perhaps down to his 7s background, uses the touchline brilliantly in defensive situations.

The fact that he also scores tries and has good hands and footwork is a bonus. Not aure about his kicking yet, can't remember a lot of kicking from him, and I don't know how many rucks he hits either:D

If he gets back with Ulster and plays well he would be the sort of guy that could go on tour in the summer to the Pacific Islands when the Lions boys are away, although whether any of our back three players make the Lions tour is highly questionable.

Jump_In_Jack

bilston wrote: »

I know it's Georgia and it will be hard for any player to really impress given the level of opposition, but I'd love to see a big performance from McCloskey. It would be nice to see a coach being brave enough to pick him for two matches in a row.

Just reading some of McCloskey's comments this week, he mentioned that he wasn't being communicated with under Schmidt, but since Farrell took over he's been getting detailed instructions on what he needs to show in games and encouragement that he can make more squads.
I think McCloskey is a special talent, that we could use for some interesting moves, like he has the size to be brought into some forward moves, and could switch out to the wing every now and then to crash over in the corner if we're camped on the opposition line, just as an example, he is obviously best suited to his carrying game in the 12 channel, but I think he is a clever distributor/offloader as well, and as he said he has been focusing on dinky kicks in behind and improving his passing in order to use them when opportunities arise.
Fingers crossed he goes well and maybe even the possibility of a 12 McC 13 Aki the following week.

Link to article in the42.ie below:

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-mccloskey-ireland-georgia-5278219-Nov2020/

"McCloskey has enjoyed working with Ireland head coach Andy Farrell and explained that there has been more contact with him since the Englishman succeeded Joe Schmidt.

“Under Joe, I don’t think there was a great deal, there were bits and pieces but I didn’t really get a lot,” said McCloskey.

“With the coaching team that’s there at the minute, I think I’ve got quite a lot. They’ve told me what to work on, and I went away [and did it]. It’s the usual things really, but I think every player knows what their deficiencies are anyway, I think you’re always working on it.

“I’m always working on my kicking game, always trying to work on my passing. It’s just in terms of trying to use it in games a lot, the way Ulster play and Ireland play is probably a bit different and uses my skillset differently.”"

Paul Smeenus

https://www.the42.ie/iain-henderson-ireland-lineout-5280010-Nov2020/

Main takeaways -

Hendo back to calling the lineout.
He seems to be relishing his leadership role and senior position - he's an important cog in the Ireland wheel now.
Ryan's nickname is "Cheese".

[Deleted User]

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/iain-henderson-ireland-lineout-5280010-Nov2020/

Main takeaways -

Hendo back to calling the lineout.
He seems to be relishing his leadership role and senior position - he's an important cog in the Ireland wheel now.
Ryan's nickname is "Cheese".

Apparently due to the cheesy music he plays on the bus

Buer

I'm glad to see Henderson back in and running the line out. He's a quality operator but he really needs a consistent run in the team. For a Lion who made his debut 8 years ago, he still only has 31 starts for Ireland which is mad. Bundee Aki has 29 starts in 3 years as a comparison.

I'm a little disappointed with the second row selection overall in the 23. 4 locks included? We're missing an opportunity there to try and look at another lock or bring in another back rower on the bench given Beirne is on the field.

The big losers so far in this international window have been Conwayand VDF to my mind. Aki would be in that bracket too but injuries have kept him involved consistently. It will be very interesting to see how McCloskey goes this weekend although I'm not sure he's ever going to be flavour of the month with the test selectors.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Apparently due to the cheesy music he plays on the bus

It's a running joke in Leinster when he first came along and Deegan started calling him The Big Cheese to take the p*ss. Name stuck.

arsebiscuits1

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Would have completely agreed before he sheared his muscle off his bone. Let's see how he comes back. But if he's good as before - yeah, he's the business.

I worry about it too.

It was an injury that ended Johnny Hollands career. If I recall correctly, he was told flat out it would never be the same as it was pre injury and he could barely get through a week of training.

Having said that Healy and Ryan both suffered the same injury (although evidently not as bad) and haven't had any notable adverse effects

phog

Overall I'm a bit disappointed with the team selection. I acknowledge Farrell has already brought in new blood I really thought he could have experiment a bit more. One new cap (off the bench) against Georgia smacks of conservatism.

I suppose after a hammering from England he might want us to have a feel good factor when we hammer Georgia but the end game is we'll have lost an opportunity to give younger lads an opportunity to develop.

ionadnapóca

bilston wrote: »

:DAye, you'd have to worry about the nature of his injury.

But the fact that his return may be quicker than anticipated is potentially good news.

The thing that stands out for me that awec talked about it is his defence. He is like the anti Stockdale in that regard. Usually young wingers are great attacking weapons, but defensively are suspect, and that is the norm in fairness. But Balacoune...perhaps down to his 7s background, uses the touchline brilliantly in defensive situations.

The fact that he also scores tries and has good hands and footwork is a bonus. Not aure about his kicking yet, can't remember a lot of kicking from him, and I don't know how many rucks he hits either:D

If he gets back with Ulster and plays well he would be the sort of guy that could go on tour in the summer to the Pacific Islands when the Lions boys are away, although whether any of our back three players make the Lions tour is highly questionable.

Thats a good point though on the kicking.
& whats he like in the air? He looks extremely athletic but i cant recall him claiming any high crossfield kicks or the like.

I thought he looked nailed on for the 14 jersey before that injury.

Paul Smeenus

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Thats a good point though on the kicking.
& whats he like in the air? He looks extremely athletic but i cant recall him claiming any high crossfield kicks or the like.

I thought he looked nailed on for the 14 jersey before that injury.

Aye, he's been on the end of a few Burns crossfield kicks, and has coped with others in defence very well.

Niallof9

yeah Balacoune looks class. i suppose it goes to show the sevens can work for some, and not for others.we need to get a few out and out speedsters into the system. is Sexton going to be good enough?

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Thats a good point though on the kicking.
& whats he like in the air? He looks extremely athletic but i cant recall him claiming any high crossfield kicks or the like.

I thought he looked nailed on for the 14 jersey before that injury.

I think he has been grand in the air, nonissues that I can remember at all.

ionadnapóca

Farrell press conference "et cetera"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSoMMhDhS9Y

On Beahlam
"Playing at loose head is something that we have been thinking about for awhile"
On Porter
"its always been in our mind about the opportunity...option of swapping him over. But at this moment in time he's 100% our no.1 TH with Tadgh been injured"

I find the Beahlam reason nonsense. He was drafted in against England as emergency LH cover.
When is the last time he played LH? 2016 when drafted in to cover for Healy?

Porter one is just bull**** talk. I think he must be winding that fella up in the ITimes.

Dog Botherer

those seem normal things to say in fairness

Dubinusa

I suppose overall Farrell has done quite well blooding new players. A lot of us on these forums will always piss and moan about the selection, but in fairness to the coaching team they have done a lot to instill younger lads and freshen things up. The drawback for me is, the apparent ease that England handled us and the simplicity and skill of France cutting us apart.
We still are left with the same questions... among which are Healy and his successor. Hooker... who will step up and of course our outhalf post Sexton. I also guess that we are still without a solid playbook. Either that, or the players are unable to impose a plan.
Like a lot of folks, I think Farrell may not have been the best selection for us, but he should be given time to implement his ideas and his player selections.
But he has definitely broadened the player pool.
My opinion of the new lads is
Keenan is a very solid player and will improve as he gets more opportunities. I think he will be at least in the wider squad for the next few years.
Kelleher.... is not ready. I think he's a liability atm. I hope he does improve but imo he's not a clear-cut selection.
Connors has passed VDF. He's a good player and I think like Keenan will be among the squad going forward.
Burns looks like he could get past RB. Time will tell. He's a good player but I think he is more of a bench option.
Doris will be a mainstay. He will imo be a starter fairly soon.
JGP is decent but he most likely will be a back up. I expect Cooney to come back in for the 6nations.
Daly... has not had an opportunity. But he like Keenan is very good. He will be thereabouts for the future.
Deegan... depends on his recovery and he is battling Coombes Doris and Conan just to get a sniff.
Lowe will pick up a lot of caps imo. Again he plays for Leinster and is brilliant for them. That's a huge advantage. Also, Stockdale has been meh so Lowe usurp him on the wing.
I think we will see another 4 to 8 caps over the next year as we build towards 2023.
So far we're underwhelming with some obvious weakness and seem to fall back to our old ways when playing bigger and better sides.
We will have a good idea after the 6nations.

Zzippy

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Having said that Healy and Ryan both suffered the same injury (although evidently not as bad) and haven't had any notable adverse effects

They're both 50% slower, but it's barely measurable

briandebum

I have very little faith in Farrell & think this selection is ****. I think if we continue our current trajectory we're looking at the standard quarter final world cup finish. You could argue that we don't have the players at the moment to do any better, however when Schmidt's game plan was working a lot of these players were beating the All-Blacks.

Looking down the line, it'll be interesting to see have the IRFU the balls to move on quickly from him. Would they let him go if we finish 3rd again behind France & England? I would hope so, but I'm not sure.
With Wales potentially also looking for a new coach soon, do we try and get the jump on them? Pivac's contract is up July next year.

Looking internally, Lancaster & Cullen are obviously an option, however is more continuity from within the Irish system what's needed?

Outside of Ireland, Mark McCall & Scott Robertson would be the big names to look at. Throw the cheque book at them. If we have a world class coach in place then it becomes easier to identify which players are not performing, as opposed to saying the gameplan isn't working.

(I'm undoubtedly overly negative on the situation but no harm thinking about these things.)

The Lost Sheep

briandebum wrote: »

I have very little faith in Farrell & think this selection is ****. I think if we continue our current trajectory we're looking at the standard quarter final world cup finish. You could argue that we don't have the players at the moment to do any better, however when Schmidt's game plan was working a lot of these players were beating the All-Blacks.

Looking down the line, it'll be interesting to see have the IRFU the balls to move on quickly from him. Would they let him go if we finish 3rd again behind France & England? I would hope so, but I'm not sure.
With Wales potentially also looking for a new coach soon, do we try and get the jump on them? Pivac's contract is up July next year.

Looking internally, Lancaster & Cullen are obviously an option, however is more continuity from within the Irish system what's needed?

Outside of Ireland, Mark McCall & Scott Robertson would be the big names to look at. Throw the cheque book at them. If we have a world class coach in place then it becomes easier to identify which players are not performing, as opposed to saying the gameplan isn't working.

(I'm undoubtedly overly negative on the situation but no harm thinking about these things.)

Why so little faith in Farrell?
Our traditional placing is 2nd/3rd. Bit much to say let him go if he finishes where we nearly always finish in the 6 nations. In 20 years of 6 nations we've finished 3rd 8 times....

What chances are there that McCall would be interested in coming back to Ireland? And would Robertson when he is still a very young coach and have serious aspirations of being involved in new zealand coaching team

leakyboots

Hope Earls gets a try at the weekend, would bring him to 2nd outright in our all-time top scorers - what a finisher he's been for us. He'll hopefully pass Zebo this season too for Munster to take top there too. Maybe the legs will go soon being a winger but what's always amazed me about him is his ability to come back from injury and immediately be back to the level and speed he was before. I remember a game after a long layoff against Cardiff I think and he was unplayable that night.

aloooof

leakyboots wrote: »

Hope Earls gets a try at the weekend, would bring him to 2nd outright in our all-time top scorers - what a finisher he's been for us. He'll hopefully pass Zebo this season too for Munster to take top there too. Maybe the legs will go soon being a winger but what's always amazed me about him is his ability to come back from injury and immediately be back to the level and speed he was before. I remember a game after a long layoff against Cardiff I think and he was unplayable that night.

Amongst my favourite players, I'd say, would love to see this. For all his lack of size, he more than wins his fair share in the air and we've even seen him win the odd counter-ruck too.

Hasn't seemed to lose much pace either yet, outpacing Larmour for the try-saving tackle comes to mind (albeit last year). His footwork is class as well, always seems to eek out a few yards.

Ardillaun

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why so little faith in Farrell?
Our traditional placing is 2nd/3rd. Bit much to say let him go if he finishes where we nearly always finish in the 6 nations. In 20 years of 6 nations we've finished 3rd 8 times....

Losing to one of the top teams doesn’t mean we didn’t field the best team possible. It’s always tempting to think that some other combination would have brought more luck against France or England but I don’t see any obvious world beaters who would radically change our fortunes.

Ardillaun

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Our lineout was pretty inconsistent even when Toner was playing. The lineout performance on Saturday was below standard for any level of the game and not for the first time.

I felt more confident when Toner was in the lineout. What is the data on this? Perhaps I’m biased by the consequences of that missed lineout that led to May’s second try.

Clegg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why so little faith in Farrell?
Our traditional placing is 2nd/3rd. Bit much to say let him go if he finishes where we nearly always finish in the 6 nations. In 20 years of 6 nations we've finished 3rd 8 times....

What chances are there that McCall would be interested in coming back to Ireland? And would Robertson when he is still a very young coach and have serious aspirations of being involved in new zealand coaching team

Just throwing this out here, I don't think Mark McCall would be a success with Ireland. His Saracens side is brilliant, but they're very attritional and rely a lot on dominance up front. It would be a rehash of Joe Schmidt's Ireland but with less innovation at set plays.

The Lost Sheep

Clegg wrote: »

Just throwing this out here, I don't think Mark McCall would be a success with Ireland. His Saracens side is brilliant, but they're very attritional and rely a lot on dominance up front. It would be a rehash of Joe Schmidt's Ireland but with less innovation at set plays.

I dont see him coming back and working with Ireland. I dont think it would be anything to do with how his sarries side has played as he would know he wouldnt be able to play that way if in charge here

UAEguy2020

Ardillaun wrote: »

I felt more confident when Toner was in the lineout. What is the data on this? Perhaps I’m biased by the consequences of that missed lineout that led to May’s second try.

Toner being present gave us an illusion that the lineout was reliable but in reality it still left it to be desired, the data surprisingly tells us the lineout is pretty good but in practice a lot of them it feels almost like we won it by the skin of our teeth rather than the line-out actually being reliable.

UAEguy2020

Ardillaun wrote: »

Losing to one of the top teams doesn’t mean we didn’t field the best team possible. It’s always tempting to think that some other combination would have brought more luck against France or England but I don’t see any obvious world beaters who would radically change our fortunes.

It’s less about different combinations and more to do with systems. If you look in both games we had a huge number of errors occur in our system or a big individual mistake that lead to us conceding a try or indirectly lead to us conceding a try. England and France on the other hand were much more settled and therefore were less likely to make such mistakes.

aloooof

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Toner being present gave us an illusion that the lineout was reliable but in reality it still left it to be desired, the data surprisingly tells us the lineout is pretty good but in practice a lot of them it feels almost like we won it by the skin of our teeth rather than the line-out actually being reliable.

My suspicion is that any publicly available data would be too simplistic won / lost type stuff. If a defence can disrupt / slow down quick ball off a line out, it could still show up as a “line out won” in the stats but is a very different platform from secure, quick ball.

Paul Smeenus

aloooof wrote: »

My suspicion is that any publicly available data would be too simplistic won / lost type stuff. If a defence can disrupt / slow down quick ball off a line out, it could still show up as a “line out won” in the stats but is a very different platform from secure, quick ball.

I think Henderson was coming in and obviously being groomed to take the mantle - there were a couple of ropey games in the early days and there was a touch of "this would never have happened with Toner The Unsung Hero (c)". I remember on here people saying "he can't be selected if the lineout's going to be that bad". I recall especially pointing out that when we won the Six Nations he had called a 10/10 lineout against England, when people afterwards said he just couldn't get his head around it.

Long story short, I think a lot of the lineout nonsense came down to provincial sniping.