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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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aloooof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Thanks for that. The Irish bench does jump out. I guess thats because Murray is about 40

Pretty much.

The sub front-rows were the main culprit tho:

Ire: 30.3
Eng: 25.7
NZ: 24.7
Aus: 23

sydthebeat

CMcsporty wrote: »

The last part has nothing to do with me. You could just say sorry!

& yes i understand what disingenuous means & no i didn't know!
But i do know Ireland should be capping more players now.

Anyway im learning valuable lessons today. Good luck

if you didnt know the reason behind the france selection, then its not a stick to beat the irish selection with...

Dubinusa

Niallof9 wrote: »

who said anything about changing the whole squad? this will be a 50 point win and we'll be no better in cohesion. Mainly cause Sexton is the 10 till he retires. So bang there goes one part of the grand plan. Earls isn't that big a deal if you want to get him back in. I agree with maybe 4/5 changes. I mean thats the point with Keenan. He was tried, he did ok. Now why and how does he suddenly become an automatic starter. SUddenly he'll be on 20 caps and those calling for a Daly or whoever wwill be told...well Hugo has 20 caps now you can't be dropping him..its the constant narrative of Irish Rugby. Sure might as well get the ink dry on those central deals for Keenan and COnnors. Those two European games have really stood them in stead. There's absolutely no reason Daly or whoever can't be tried like Keenan was with Italy. Irish rugby at times is utterly bizarre and a sort of never ending self fulfilling prophecy. And there's enough cheerleaders on here and in print which means all criticism is banished. People like Andy Dunne are quacks and the word 2018 is thrown about at will.

Don't see a problem with Keenan or Connors? Keenan has been very very good for Leinster and has done well in green. Connors has passed VDF and he needs a run of experience. These boys are not the issue with this team selection.

ionadnapóca

CMcsporty wrote: »

The last part has nothing to do with me. You could just say sorry!

& yes i understand what disingenuous means & no i didn't know!
But i do know Ireland should be capping more players now.

Anyway im learning valuable lessons today. Good luck

Yeah things are bad when you can go to the 42.ie comments section and get a more reasonable critique of the selection.

Ardillaun

CMcsporty wrote: »

But i would also point out the brilliant piece of footwork by May
I was more concerned with Earls not biting in when May put it under his left arm and then getting scorched.
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-england-lineout-twickenham-5275283-Nov2020/ed.

At least Farrell and Aki tried to tackle May. In defence of Earls, he did have to think about Daly but he was right next to May and that was the immediate threat. He seemed to freeze for a moment and then failed to pursue him with any conviction. Finally, there’s no excuse for Lowe leisurely sauntering back like that.

aloooof

CMcsporty wrote: »

We all like to have an opinion but if it’s met with dismissive “do you knows” or patronising “let me knows” and then be lectured at about “bad faith” ???
Give me a break

Seriously??

CMcsporty wrote: »

Oh no....
Did you know that the Irish U-20's won the grand slam last year?

Dog Botherer

lads he knows what he’s at.

Yeah_Right

aloooof wrote: »

I actually had a quick look at this, YR, it broke down as follows. Not much in it in the starting 15's, but the bench seems to be the biggest difference:

| Aus | NZ | Ire | Eng
15 | 25.7 | 26.7 | 27.4 | 27.3
Subs | 23 | 23.8 | 28 | 25.4
23 | 24.8 | 25.7 | 27.6 | 26.7

It does kind of blow away theory that NZ and Aus are massively backing youth compared to England and Ireland. Less than 3 years in difference. Of course the ABs and the Wallabies are going to be a bit younger in a post RWC year due to the number of their players retiring to the NH ðŸ˜œ
And let's face it, Rennie had to overhaul the Wallabies. They've been on a downward slide since 2015. You could probably argue since 2011. I think Ireland is in much better position than them.

Ardillaun

I felt more confident with Toner in but what are the stats on Irish lineouts in the Toner and post-Toner eras? Was the whole lineout better in his time? Was he better? Is there data that also captures the consequences of missed throws in some way?

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

That's twice in 2 days you've made this claim. Do you have any examples to actually back this up?

Because, honestly, it just sounds like more hyperbole.

Just give over, honestly. You're an absolute bore the way you go about posting on here.

And yeah my God its a weakened team alright. Its the strongest team at our diaposal bar Sexton. What a bunch of pedantic crap

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

Seriously??

Nah he's completely correct you are always at it.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

Just give over, honestly. You're an absolute bore the way you go about posting on here.

I've simply asked you to provide evidence for your claims. I've yet to see any. Yet instead you resort to ad-hominem attacks.

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

I've simply asked you to provide evidence for your claims. I've yet to see any.

Im not going back over years of stuff. Its there, theres about 7 or 8 long term posters whos views have been proven wrong time and time again. Form doesn't count was a good one that ran a while from the Kidney to Joe era.

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

I've simply asked you to provide evidence for your claims. I've yet to see any.

Im not going back over years of stuff. Its there, theres about 7 or 8 long term posters whos views have been proven wrong time and time again. Yet they r always ready to fight inaccuracies and defend the indefensible. Its all there from the WC as well. Form doesn't count was a good one that ran a while from the Kidney to Joe era.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

Im not going back over years of stuff. Its there, theres about 7 or 8 long term posters whos views have been proven wrong time and time again. Form doesn't count was a good one that ran a while from the Kidney to Joe era.

You stating this does not make it so. Again, where's the evidence?

If you're not willing to back it up, don't bring it up to attack people with.

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

You stating this does not make it so. Again, where's the evidence?

If you're not willing to back it up, don't bring it up to attack people with.

I didn't attack anybody i was attacked myself yesterday. I take it with pinch of salt going by some of the reaction today. Its beyond a joke at this stage. Anyway enjoy the match i’ve a feeling it could be a low point.

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

I didn't attack anybody

Here's what you said:

Niallof9 wrote: »

He's been at this for years, always dismissing peoples viewpoints. I mean i'm fairly certain he was one of the lads who said form isn't real or something to that effect.when this was discussed in years gone by. Its really bizarre how some people can't accept that they are wrong, time and again.

If you're going to claim that of someone, you can expect to be challenged on it. And if you can't, or are unwilling, to provide the evidence, you can expect to have your points dismissed.

Niallof9 wrote: »

i was attacked myself yesterday.

Just to be clear, I don't condone that either.

Niallof9 wrote: »

Its beyond a joke at this stage.

We absolutely agree on one thing, Niall. Enjoy the game.

Zzippy

Jesus Christ, move on lads. Take it to PM or put each other on ignore. But it ends here.

Bazzo

The sun will rise in the east, set in the west. Death. Taxes. The price of a pint going up. Someone claiming on boards that Bundee Aki is useless. The sureties of life.

Jump_In_Jack

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If they did, then I think it’s a complete and total mistake, The next World Cup is in 2023.

I really don’t believe this is the case at all. But I do agree that the initial selection led them into this selection. And unfortunately it’s largely led to missing a lot of potential value from this game imo

Probably COVID is another reason.
But even then, that doesn’t make too much sense, one extra loose head wouldn’t have been a big issue.
I think the size of the squad selected and the fact the cup resembles a World Cup pool stage is what makes me think this was used as an opportunity to put pressure on the players, like Porter, Ryan, Stander, Farrell and Keenan for example.
If they all are selected for next week it will have tested them a lot physically.

Jump_In_Jack

Bazzo wrote: »

The sun will rise in the east, set in the west. Death. Taxes. The price of a pint going up. Someone claiming on boards that Bundee Aki is useless. The sureties of life.

Bundee is brilliant for Connacht, but for some reason Ireland don’t seem to get the most out of him.
I’ve been hoping for McCloskey to get some caps for a while, the main thing I want to see is an offload behind the gain line, he seems to have that ability to unlock wall defences, if we could get Farrell running good lines off him it could be exciting.
Aki obviously can do that too but McCloskey seems to have more height and longer reach so he should be better at it hopefully.
It’s the one thing Ireland struggle with and it’s so frustrating to witness crash ball without any possibility of a decent offload in midfield.

Bazzo

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Bundee is brilliant for Connacht, but for some reason Ireland don’t seem to get the most out of him.
I’ve been hoping for McCloskey to get some caps for a while, the main thing I want to see is an offload behind the gain line, he seems to have that ability to unlock wall defences, if we could get Farrell running good lines off him it could be exciting.
Aki obviously can do that too but McCloskey seems to have more height and longer reach so he should be better at it hopefully.
It’s the one thing Ireland struggle with and it’s so frustrating to witness crash ball without any possibility of a decent offload in midfield.

The sort of things you see Aki and McCloskey doing at club level is just not something that happens that much internationally.

International coaches pick Bundee for a lot of reasons but a big one will be how busy he is in attack or defense with or without the ball. You're essentially playing with an extra flanker because he has huge ruck involvement and defensively puts in a massive shift every single time. Hard to understate how useful that is.

Iamabeliever

Bazzo wrote: »

The sun will rise in the east, set in the west. Death. Taxes. The price of a pint going up. Someone claiming on boards that Bundee Aki is useless. The sureties of life.

Aki came in to the current Ireland camp the form 12. He had a stinker against France getting replaced shortly after half time. And against England he was next to anonymous. Your only as good as your last game and for Bundee, that is “useless”

Joma4good

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Earls hasn't played much rugby, I reckon they want more game-time under his belt with Scotland in mind. Suggesting he's finshed is laughable, he's easily in the top 3 wingers in Ireland.

Agree with this, whatever the team against Georgia, they can hopefully do the job but Andy Farrell def doesn’t want to go into 2021 having lost the Scotland game. I think he’s trying to keep the spine of the team playing and match fit. A complete team of newbies on Saturday that are then mostly dropped for the following week has as many downsides as up I believe. Scotland are well able to apply the pressure and will be trying to emulate the English tactics against us. I think he’s done ok considering the injuries.

molloyjh

Aki hasn't been as good as we've previously seen him, and that was even before the England game. Coming into the 6Ns return, he was my first choice 12. But I think Henshaw delivered more in his time than Aki and probably overtook him. So the pecking order has flipped for me.

That said, I'd hold fire on giving him grief over the England game. That was just a no-win situation. Ross Byrne just doesn't threaten the line so defenders can just drift off him and onto Aki or whoever. Add to that the fact that we didn't have any other ball players in the back line and it was just a situation where we simply didn't have the right combination of players in the back line to make much of the game. I dont think that was anyones fault, its just the way injuries and availabilities went.

bilston

I know it's Georgia and it will be hard for any player to really impress given the level of opposition, but I'd love to see a big performance from McCloskey. It would be nice to see a coach being brave enough to pick him for two matches in a row.

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

Aki hasn't been as good as we've previously seen him, and that was even before the England game. Coming into the 6Ns return, he was my first choice 12. But I think Henshaw delivered more in his time than Aki and probably overtook him. So the pecking order has flipped for me.

That said, I'd hold fire on giving him grief over the England game. That was just a no-win situation. Ross Byrne just doesn't threaten the line so defenders can just drift off him and onto Aki or whoever. Add to that the fact that we didn't have any other ball players in the back line and it was just a situation where we simply didn't have the right combination of players in the back line to make much of the game. I dont think that was anyones fault, its just the way injuries and availabilities went.

Aki is an incredibly powerful and capable player who needs a system around him to utilise his skillset. He's in the best shape of his life.

I agree with Horgan - the system is failing and I'm increasingly drifting towards the coaching setup being the issue.

Ardillaun

How is Baloucoune coming along? Will he be back soon?

awec

Ardillaun wrote: »

How is Baloucoune coming along? Will he be back soon?

After Christmas I think.

It is only a matter of time before Bobby Balacoune is capped for Ireland. He is the real deal. I do not often blow smoke up the arse of players, but Balacoune will be a regular for Ireland. Doesn't get the hype cause he didn't go to one of the Dublin schools.

He'll be capped more than Keenan and Lowe.

He is a player who completely substance over style. Absolutely rock solid in defence and scores tries. The perfect test winger.

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

After Christmas I think.

It is only a matter of time before Bobby Balacoune is capped for Ireland. He is the real deal. I do not often blow smoke up the arse of players, but Balacoune will be a regular for Ireland. Doesn't get the hype cause he didn't go to one of the Dublin schools.

He'll be capped more than Keenan and Lowe.

He is a player who completely substance over style. Absolutely rock solid in defence and scores tries. The perfect test winger.

Would have completely agreed before he sheared his muscle off his bone. Let's see how he comes back. But if he's good as before - yeah, he's the business.