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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

[Deleted User]

Is there another way of looking at it?
It’s still very, very divided, and actually seems to be getting more polarized over the last five years. It’s economy is woeful, very heavily dependent on the public sector.
Unionists are making plans to celebrate its centenary, but there seems to be very little to be happy with, certainly far less than the Republic or the rest of the UK.
No point in arguing about a border poll on this thread, but is there any possible way of looking at NI as a social, political and economic failure?

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FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Why not quote the gfa. It’s the document you are claiming gives Roi authority in ni? No interest in an ex Secretary of State’s interpretation.

Gerry and Martin got this one badly wrong and you need to come to terms with that

Where did I say 'authority'?

Here is what I said 'The Irish Government being given a say in the running of the shop...is the answer.'

Consultation = a say. Otherwise, why consult.

You will make no major changes in NI without consultation. The sea border - the DUP are eating grass on that one now and Edwin Potts is busily building the infrastructure.
Boris thought like you...he got it badly wrong.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say 'authority'?

Here is what I said 'The Irish Government being given a say in the running of the shop...is the answer.'

Consultation = a say. Otherwise, why consult.

You will make no major changes in NI without consultation. The sea border - the DUP are eating grass on that one now and Edwin Potts is busily building the infrastructure.
Boris thought like you...he got it badly wrong.

So there is nothing in the gfa which gives Roi a day in ni or you would have quoted it by now. Research complete. Francie caught out again.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So there is nothing in the gfa which gives Roi a day in ni or you would have quoted it by now. Research complete. Francie caught out again.

I didn't say anything about it being in the GFA. I said that was part of the objections from Unionist leaders to agreements involving Dublin.

You will paint this picture of a fantasy NI and then us people living in the real world will ask, what was all the hassle arounf the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA about...even Sunningdale?
What was Molyneaux, Trimble, Paisley etc getting excited about? The Irish Government being given a say in the running of the shop...is the answer.

Learn to read better downcow.

How did youse get on trying to get Boris to ignore us on a hard border? Not very well eh?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say anything about it being in the GFA. I said that was part of the objections from Unionist leaders to agreements involving Dublin.

Learn to read better downcow.

How did youse get on trying to get Boris to ignore us on a hard border? Not very well eh?

Francie you were a latecomer to the discussion. Junkyard Tom said it was in the gfa. Who would have ever thought that you would have came in to support my position against Tom. But thank you.
Tom Francie has clarified that it is not in the gfa so there we go

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie you were a latecomer to the discussion. Junkyard Tom said it was in the gfa. Who would have ever thought that you would have came in to support my position against Tom. But thank you.
Tom Francie has clarified that it is not in the gfa so there we go

Your reading skills aren't very good are they downcow?

Where did Tom say it?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your reading skills aren't very good are they downcow?

Where did Tom say it?

Francie don’t be turning on me now after just supporting me. You accepted that there is nothing in gfa that gives Roi any authority whatsoever over owc.

I honestly can’t be arsed trawling through they posts. Maybe Tom would just confirm for us that he didn’t just imply it once but rather in several recent posts.

downcow

We have had a lot of stuff on here about wanting a unified approach to covid.
So now we have an greed approach across the UK with regard to Christmas.
The UK have asked Roi to join with us all to create harmony accross the two islands and make visiting consistent and simple.
Will be interesting to see Roi response.

grayzer75

downcow wrote: »

We have had a lot of stuff on here about wanting a unified approach to covid.
So now we have an greed approach across the UK with regard to Christmas.
The UK have asked Roi to join with us all to create harmony accross the two islands and make visiting consistent and simple.
Will be interesting to see Roi response.

In fairness I'm no fan of the FFG government but they should only harmonise the approach if the health experts in the south agree and not just to appease the UK.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie don’t be turning on me now after just supporting me. You accepted that there is nothing in gfa that gives Roi any authority whatsoever over owc.

I honestly can’t be arsed trawling through they posts. Maybe Tom would just confirm for us that he didn’t just imply it once but rather in several recent posts.

I didn't say anything about 'authority' downcow.

You are again revealing yourself here.

FrancieBrady

Interesting article here. Unionism doing absolutely nothing to attract union support outside Unionism, while it's quite clear many have gone to the halfway house of the Alliance.

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[Deleted User]

I would of thought the most recent opinion polls both in NI and the Republic that pragmatism rather than demographics will decide an UI.

In NI, outside of the 30% on each side who have a fixed opinion on unification the remainder don't believe the Republic can afford to continue services like the NHS.

In the Republic, according to the B&A poll from 2019, support for a yes vote drops from something like 75% to low 30% if unification would require an increase in taxes albeit with a sizeable number of unknows.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

support for a yes vote drops from something like 75% to low 30% if unification would require an increase in taxes albeit with a sizeable number of unknows.

You partitionists are a lot like Brexiters in that you believe getting your way means retaining current privileges, that would definitely not be the case.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You partitionists are a lot like Brexiters in that you believe getting your way means retaining current privileges, that would definitely not be the case.

Not sure what you mean?

But if you're making comparisons with Brexiteers, SF are definitely the closest we have. Much like them, SF make vague claims of benefits for their preferred outcome that are without any substance, the Unification document being a perfect example.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

We have had a lot of stuff on here about wanting a unified approach to covid.
So now we have an greed approach across the UK with regard to Christmas.
The UK have asked Roi to join with us all to create harmony accross the two islands and make visiting consistent and simple.
Will be interesting to see Roi response.

It looks like your earlier comments were correct, Ireland will follow the four Nations regarding covid and Christmas.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/leo-varadkar-confirms-irelands-lockdown-23065561

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

It looks like your earlier comments were correct, Ireland will follow the four Nations regarding covid and Christmas.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/leo-varadkar-confirms-irelands-lockdown-23065561

I doubt very much if my government would delibritely follow anything from westminster in regard to covid restrictions,are you actually seriously saying my government waited to see what those halfwits across the water were doing before they decided our strategy here?

RobMc59

droidman123 wrote: »

I doubt very much if my government would delibritely follow anything from westminster in regard to covid restrictions,are you actually seriously saying my government waited to see what those halfwits across the water were doing before they decided our strategy here?

Perhaps you are right and it must be a coincidence then that Ireland's plans are virtually identical to the four Nations.

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps you are right and it must be a coincidence then that Ireland's plans are virtually identical to the four Nations.

Well at least we agree on that

BonnieSituation

droidman123 wrote: »

Well at least we agree on that

Are you sure?

I mean, this is a poster who thinks that we would blindly follow a government that has been a disaster on Covid and in fact isn't even being followed by the devolved administrations in Britain, and yet, expects us to follow them?

It's almost like he's being disingenuous.

* checks stats *

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean?

That's unsurprising as forethought isn't a trait associated with either brexiters or paritionists.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That's unsurprising as forethought isn't a trait associated with either brexiters or paritionists.

While i doubt i'll ever get to vote in a border poll i'm not overly concerned in that regard.

What do think would happen if unification is rejected in the Republic?

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That's unsurprising as forethought isn't a trait associated with either brexiters or paritionists.

Sure an increase in MLA and Community Workers salaries would probably solve that issue. Nice clean Sterling got rid of the IRA.

downcow

grayzer75 wrote: »

In fairness I'm no fan of the FFG government but they should only harmonise the approach if the health experts in the south agree and not just to appease the UK.

I agree totally and I think this is exactly the approach the UK should take if ROI ask for either the whole of the UK or any region to align with them

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say anything about 'authority' downcow.

You are again revealing yourself here.

Francie, have some balls and answer a question.

You can't have it both ways.

Do you think that the GFA gives the Republic of Ireland any authority whatsoever over the running of Northern Ireland?

It should be a simple yes or no

downcow

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps you are right and it must be a coincidence then that Ireland's plans are virtually identical to the four Nations.

And the coincidence is even greater than that, as in I predicted it - of course I maybe have a crystal ball under my bed

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

And the coincidence is even greater than that, as in I predicted it - of course I maybe have a crystal ball under my bed

Britain is one of the worst performing countries on Earth with COVID, and is facing an economic downturn it hasn't seen the likes of in three centuries.

The level of delusion is spectacular.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie, have some balls and answer a question.

You can't have it both ways.

Do you think that the GFA gives the Republic of Ireland any authority whatsoever over the running of Northern Ireland?

It should be a simple yes or no

The GFA as an internationally binding agreement between two sovereign countries Ireland and The UK and all the supplementary agreements gives Ireland a say in the running of Northern Ireland. There are many instances of this and The UK can make no significant changes in Northern Ireland without consulting Ireland.

Duke of Schomberg

Blaaz_ wrote: »

An extensive bombing campaign taking down econmy of the free state? imo

So that would be bombing Taytoworld and Joe Mac's house then?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain is one of the worst performing countries on Earth with COVID, and is facing an economic downturn it hasn't seen the likes of in three centuries.

The level of delusion is spectacular.

I don't think very many countries can cover themselves in glory around Covid, and certainly the UK got lots wrong.
I actually would genuinely like to affirm the Republic of Ireland for doing the sensible thing on this issue and coming on board with the UK plans for Christmas as that is clearly in everyone's best interests. To do otherwise would have been petty and hurt the people living along the border the most.

So, I am normally not behind the door in condemning the Republic of Irelands actions, but full marks to them for this mature, adult, decision. Let's have some more of this from all involved. I would go so far as to say that we now owe you one and that, providing of course it is appropriate, we should follow the Republic on the next decision -

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA as an internationally binding agreement between two sovereign countries Ireland and The UK and all the supplementary agreements gives Ireland a say in the running of Northern Ireland. There are many instances of this and The UK can make no significant changes in Northern Ireland without consulting Ireland.

Is there anyone out there Who could interpret Francie's answer for me and tell me was it a yes or a no?
It would have meant just about as much to me if he had written it in Irish

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Is there anyone out there Who could interpret Francie's answer for me and tell me was it a yes or a no?
It would have meant just about as much to me if he had written it in Irish

You can't invent things that were not said and then get in a strop because a poster will not confirm them.

We have a say as your former Secretary of state very clearly said. Get over it.