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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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VayNiice

theVersatile wrote: »

1. Killer
2. O'Byrne
3. Ryan
4. Beirne
5. Ryan
6. POM
7. Leavy
8. CJ

^^ I want to start see this pack , its the only one in the near future i see beating England

Ryan wasn't good enough to get a single minute off the bench when Porter was blowing out his arse at the end of the match. How exactly would he be the TH to lead Ireland to a win?

How many times recently have the munster pack dominated against top Champions Cup teams?

Burkie1203

VayNiice wrote: »

Ryan wasn't good enough to get a single minute off the bench when Porter was blowing out his arse at the end of the match. How exactly would he be the TH to lead Ireland to a win?

How many times recently have the munster pack dominated against top Champions Cup teams?

Ryan picked up a strain In warm up

Garda Kenny

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ryan picked up a strain In warm up

Thought that was Ed Byrne?

VayNiice

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ryan picked up a strain In warm up

That was Ed Byrne. Ryan wasn't in the 23 before that.

kingofthekong

theVersatile wrote: »

1. Killer
2. O'Byrne
3. Ryan
4. Beirne
5. Ryan
6. POM
7. Leavy
8. CJ

^^ I want to start see this pack , its the only one in the near future i see beating England

Never happening, if Munster smash Leinster in the next interprovincial match then you have a point, till that happens ...nope. Also assume you saw Ryan get munched multiple times by an Ospreys scrum last weekend. And if that should be the pack why haven’t Munster been beating Leinster regularly with those players ?

Clegg

Pick the guts of the third best pack in Ireland. That'll definitely show England.

Our pack wasn't even the problem today. There was.no lack of effort or commitment there. They made ground and forced England to make mistakes.

guapos

VayNiice wrote: »

That was Ed Byrne. Ryan wasn't in the 23 before that.

It was reported that Ryan picked up a strain in the warm up and thats why porter played full 80

kingofthekong

Clegg wrote: »

Pick the guts of the third best pack in Ireland. That'll definitely show England.

Our pack wasn't even the problem today. There was.no lack of effort or commitment there. They made ground and forced England to make mistakes.

Do you think the pack got parity today? , what do you think was the biggest area we struggled in ?

UAEguy2020

Our problem today is once again it appears we havent analyzed England as we fall right into their trap with both feet every single time, it was clear with Stockdale’s try where the weakness was and we instead kept running at prick walls. When you are as physical off the line as England are the price you pay is have a very exposed backfield and we took no advantage whatsoever.

Our pack wasn’t really an issue today, conceded afew pens at scrum time but that’s not uncommon for anyone against England.

I do take encouragement from once again our defense standing up to England even turning over two lineout mauls, England having to score a wonder try and off a free play 50/50 to score.

Again it has to be stressed that this is an Irish team in transition against probably the most settled side in the 6N who is hard enough to beat even when we are fully settled never mind in transition and one of the encouraging signs is this is an Irish team with a real backbone that keeps going even when it looks as if we are out of it which going forward will be a huge foundation for any success we might achieve once our attacking play fully evolves,

Bazzo

guapos wrote: »

It was reported that Ryan picked up a strain in the warm up and thats why porter played full 80

Where?

Edit: Cian Tracey did report it

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1330228718044925954?s=09

TRC10

One interesting thing about today is in the first 5-10 minutes we played very smart and looked to be on top. JGP and Byrne played a smart kicking game which forced errors and put England under pressure. But after May's first try we reverted to doing the same thing we did in 2019 twice and in February, running into brick wall time and time again. Our defense I thought was actually quite good. They got nothing from their mail and their tries were from a cross kick and a breakaway. But when England go through 5 or so phases and are going nowhere, they either kick for space or put up a contest able kick. But when we're getting man handled time and time again we continued to run into the brick wall. I'm a farrell fan but you have to wonder what the game plan was.

UAEguy2020

TRC10 wrote: »

One interesting thing about today is in the first 5-10 minutes we played very smart and looked to be on top. JGP and Byrne played a smart kicking game which forced errors and put England under pressure. But after May's first try we reverted to doing the same thing we did in 2019 twice and in February, running into brick wall time and time again. Our defense I thought was actually quite good. They got nothing from their mail and their tries were from a cross kick and a breakaway. But when England go through 5 or so phases and are going nowhere, they either kick for space or put up a contest able kick. But when we're getting man handled time and time again we continued to run into the brick wall. I'm a farrell fan but you have to wonder what the game plan was.

That’s exactly my observation from the game, it is clear how you get around the English defense and we were playing the game just right in that first half and then like you said reverted back to the formula of running into brick walls repeatedly.

bilston

Well the pack was a bit of an issue today when you consider the lineout malfunctioned quite badly.

The other issue was the fact that our backs pass the ball standing still, they need to run onto the ball, but again that may be a result of us not winning the collisions, which again can be partially put down to the pack coming off second best.

That said we did seem to get going more in the second half. I dont know if that was down to personnel change, a change in attitude, or England beginning to tire, but actually we controlled both territory and possession in the second half. England ended up resorting to conceding penalties with impunity, but when you're 18 zip up you can afford to do that, even if Gauzere had had the balls to bin an England player they were still likely to be to far ahead for us to catch them.

The other thing to consider after today is that with the exception of Manu Tuilagi and Anthony Watson, I think I'm right in saying that was England at full strength. We were missing Furlong, Ringrose, Sexton and Leavy. Henderson and Murray would more than likely start a 6Ns match against them as well. So I wouldn't be too disheartened.

As for Andy Farrell, I think its mad that people are concluding he isn't up to the job on the back of a defeat against England at Twickenham. We'll know more about Farrell after the dust has settled on the 2021 Six Nations...for now we are still a work in progress and the man needs time to put his stamp on the squad. I will say this though, life will much more comfortable for him in the lead up to the 6Ns if we win the Scotland/France game in two weeks time.

theVersatile

With regards to the tongue in cheek comment I made of my ideal Irish Pack, I actually believe that a pack like that (obviously replace Ryan with Porter that was pulling the piss - even though Ryan is a strong scrummager) could bring it to England. Why? BREAKDOWN THREAT. England minced us so many times with turnovers - we need to bring something similar. Get my pack, replace Ryan with Porter and maybe KOB with Herring and you have a team with five or six poaching threats.

Also, Hendo didn't exactly make blistering ground when he came on today. I wouldn't classify Beirne as being too weak/light. Can't be too much worse than Hendo was today (or someone equally light like Dillane).

Once again I'd like to point out that POM was Ireland's MOTM yet is still subject to controversy somehow.

bilston

theVersatile wrote: »

With regards to the tongue in cheek comment I made of my ideal Irish Pack, I actually believe that a pack like that (obviously replace Ryan with Porter that was pulling the piss - even though Ryan is a strong scrummager) could bring it to England. Why? BREAKDOWN THREAT. England minced us so many times with turnovers - we need to bring something similar. Get my pack, replace Ryan with Porter and maybe KOB with Herring and you have a team with five or six poaching threats.

Also, Hendo didn't exactly make blistering ground when he came on today. I wouldn't classify Beirne as being too weak/light. Can't be too much worse than Hendo was today (or someone equally light like Dillane).

Once again I'd like to point out that POM was Ireland's MOTM yet is still subject to controversy somehow.

I think you're wrong about Henderson yeaterday...he wasn't on the pitch that long but still made one or two effective gainline carries.

People tried to convince us that Beirne was better than Henderson a couple of years ago when he joined Munster and it was shown that at test level he just wasn't. No reason to think it is any different now.

OneLungDavy

bilston wrote: »

Well the pack was a bit of an issue today when you consider the lineout malfunctioned quite badly.

The other issue was the fact that our backs pass the ball standing still, they need to run onto the ball, but again that may be a result of us not winning the collisions, which again can be partially put down to the pack coming off second best.

That said we did seem to get going more in the second half. I dont know if that was down to personnel change, a change in attitude, or England beginning to tire, but actually we controlled both territory and possession in the second half. England ended up resorting to conceding penalties with impunity, but when you're 18 zip up you can afford to do that, even if Gauzere had had the balls to bin an England player they were still likely to be to far ahead for us to catch them.

The other thing to consider after today is that with the exception of Manu Tuilagi and Anthony Watson, I think I'm right in saying that was England at full strength. We were missing Furlong, Ringrose, Sexton and Leavy. Henderson and Murray would more than likely start a 6Ns match against them as well. So I wouldn't be too disheartened.

As for Andy Farrell, I think its mad that people are concluding he isn't up to the job on the back of a defeat against England at Twickenham. We'll know more about Farrell after the dust has settled on the 2021 Six Nations...for now we are still a work in progress and the man needs time to put his stamp on the squad. I will say this though, life will much more comfortable for him in the lead up to the 6Ns if we win the Scotland/France game in two weeks time.

If you're putting in Leavy you can add Carbery too. We started our 3rd choice 10 in Byrne, Burns was our 5th choice 10 coming into the tournament, he's done well and has potentially unsurped Byrne.

I couldn't get over our tactics in that first half. Our attacking shape was there at times but we kept using one-out runners. Did our forwards pass the ball once in the first half?

VayNiice

Are we any closer to figuring out what our first choice back row is? Would it be worth moving Leavy to 6 for the 6N if he's playing well and leave Connors at 7?

Does Ruddock deserve more of a chance as he had always done well for Ireland or has his ship sailed? Conan is another one who warrants another crack.

Could we look down the route of playing a bigger man at 6 like Coombes or Baird in the future?

AbusesToilets

VayNiice wrote: »

Are we any closer to figuring out what our first choice back row is? Would it be worth moving Leavy to 6 for the 6N if he's playing well and leave Connors at 7?

Does Ruddock deserve more of a chance as he had always done well for Ireland or has his ship sailed? Conan is another one who warrants another crack.

Could we look down the route of playing a bigger man at 6 like Coombes or Baird in the future?

Ruddock does deserve more attention, but he'll never get it. Conan also deserves to not be discarded. If you're going to have Stander in the team, then use him in a fashion that makes use of his ability.

UAEguy2020

VayNiice wrote: »

Are we any closer to figuring out what our first choice back row is? Would it be worth moving Leavy to 6 for the 6N if he's playing well and leave Connors at 7?

Does Ruddock deserve more of a chance as he had always done well for Ireland or has his ship sailed? Conan is another one who warrants another crack.

Could we look down the route of playing a bigger man at 6 like Coombes or Baird in the future?

If everyone’s fit is personally pick
Stander/O’Mahony @ 6 Leavy @ 7 Doris @ 8

bilston

I assume we'd have heard if anyone elae was getting called up into the squad for the Georgia match...unless they are waiting until after the Munster match. I'd have thought there may be a need to call up a prop?

Georgia are no mugs...they haven't been humiliated in their two games (much better teams than Georgia have lost by 40 points or more at Twickenham), but clearly offer very little going forward.

I'd like to see Dave Heffernen and Billy Burns both get starts.

Also if Stuart McCloskey doesn't start this game then he might as well be put out of his international misery. A McCloskey/Chris Farrell midfield would be pretty physical.

sydthebeat

anyone else think that Simon Easterbys position is very much in question ??

hes been in his position as forwards coach for over 6 years now, and while he might point to a lot of established players who have gone in the last few years.. isnt his responsibility to devise a plan based on the players he has to hand, and their strengths and weaknesses?

It seems like we havent tried anything new in regard to forward play for the last 2 years, so its a case of new players fitting the established system, rather than changing the system to suit the players. Im specifically referring to lineout work on both sides of the ball, maul work on both sides and general open play in tight.... have we seen any evidence that ireland can play a tight game around the fringes to make any significant gainline advances?

one way to counter a powerful blitz defense is to have a wind up pick and go system and to constantly attack the fringes with patterns of carries.
I didnt see any of that against england or france. We ended up having to throw bodies into rucks to counter one or two bollixes and end up leaving us with 10 players up against 13 defenders on their feet. Thus Byrne has to stand deeper to get any width at all on his passes, and we end up with farrell being hit usually behind the gain line. No pic and jam game really at all.

theVersatile

I thought Fogarty was the new forwards coach?

Richie_Rich89

Ya, hasn't Easterby switched to being defence coach?

The Lost Sheep

theVersatile wrote: »

I thought Fogarty was the new forwards coach?

No. Has he ever been forwards? Elite dev officer then scrum coach with 20s, Leinster.

sydthebeat

theVersatile wrote: »

I thought Fogarty was the new forwards coach?

scrum coach i though

sydthebeat

https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/men/management/

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/men/management/

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-easterby-defence-farrell-4892860-Nov2019/

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-easterby-defence-farrell-4892860-Nov2019/

https://extra.ie/2020/11/23/sport/rugby/ireland-england-main-things

according to this from today, easterby still runs the line out and fogarty the scrum.

have we no defined forwards coach?

sydthebeat

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-s-loss-set-up-by-shambolic-lineout-and-england-s-supreme-backrow-1.4415950

according to thornley hes not sure who runs the lineout.....

why is it such a puzzle i wonder?

sydthebeat

anyway, apologies to simon if forward work is no longer under his remit... but i guess my point still stands, if not enhanced.
Our general forward play has been pretty poor for the last 2 years