Sam Russell wrote: » There is a mention that rail could take precedence over a motorway (M20) for Cork - Limerick connection. The M20 is vital and should have been built over a decade ago, but the economic crash caused it to be cancelled. It is still needed more than ever, but talk is that it might be replaced by a rail connection either direct or via LJ. Going via LJ would add less than 20 km but on an existing line, just requiring double tracking, and providing intermediate connections. The M20 should speak for itself under road safety alone, but there you are. Any ideas?
AugustusMinimus wrote: » Improved rail on its own would be nothing more than a sticking plaster. There is very little city centre to city centre travel which would be accommodated by rail. There’s already suburban rail between Mallow and Cork Motorway is the only way forward in my mind but rail should be looked at in addition to the motorway build.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » There is practically zero chance of the rail option will be chosen over road. The most likely outcome is road plus upgrades to the existing rail. I assume there would be an hourly direct train between changing with Dublin - Cork train. IE are already advancing plans to remove seven level crossings south of Limerick Junction. Upgrades to LJ itself, including new approach from Waterford to remove the need to reverse in would leave a good level of service. Double tracking between Colbert and LJ probably doesn't achieve much, there is a few km of double track out of Colbert already. An overtaking section closer to LJ would be enough.
ianobrien wrote: » True, very few users of the N20 want to go from Cork city centre to Limerick city centre. They would be better off spending the money for the direct rail link on improving commuter rail in Cork & Limerick on the existing line. There should be a proper commuter style rail link from Charleville into Cork with new stations built by Blarney, Mallow Rd and Rathduff. The same should be done from Charleville into Limerick. Doing that (along with decent bus routes centred in the stations) would take a lot of commuters off the roads. Having a rail link direct from city centre to city centre won't take one truck or delivery off the road.
Sam Russell wrote: » I would think just double tracking would not be enough. They need to have the line from Colbert to Kent capable of high speed - less than an hour each way as it is abut 120 km. (Google gives 1 hr 23 mins for a car. They need to be faster than that.
Markcheese wrote: » Making the train 10 mins faster than road station to station ,would make no difference . Connections would , a luas or brt to Kent , train to limerick , and then tram or something to plassy or ratheen might .. But that's not going to happen.
Markcheese wrote: » We can hope ... Used to get the cork limerick train many years back , and it used to piss me off , pulling into limerick junction from cork , and the limerick city train used to be pulling out , it's like they waited for the cork train to nearly arrive before leaving ,
KrisW1001 wrote: » A better Cork-Limerick rail connection would make investment in Limerick-Galway more likely, as it would be part of a longer Cork-Limerick-Galway corridor, but that would be a long way off. Cork and Limerick are close enough that there should be more business travel between them. Removing the need to change trains at Limerick Junction would dramatically improve ridership, and it would still be competitive with road: travel time isn't as big a deal as it's made out, because you can get work done on a train (or sleep, or just relax), and you don't waste time (and patience!) at your destination stuck in traffic or hunting for parking. For business travellers, rail has a lot of advantages, but there needs to be sufficient demand for travel between the places on the line: that's why I think if a new line is built, it should be the one that serves Croom and Adare, as both are sources of commuter traffic, which is the other point of investing in rail: reduction of commuter cars. In a country this size, rail will never take the long-distance journeys, but it can do a lot to reduce commuting traffic. Line improvements to support new local commuter rail and/or light rail services (plus park+ride) for Limerick and Cork would be as good, or better, investment as trying to reduce inter-city journey times. That can be done on the existing network, but if a new rail alignment is built to improve the Cork-Limerick route, it would also allow a new commuter rail corridor to be opened in future, and that might swing the argument in its favour despite the higher cost.
riddlinrussell wrote: » That's why I'm glad its being looked at as part of this project, worst case scenario with the M20 Study, no rail changes are made, but a lot of serious study is done of the viable options and can be used as a basis for a new scheme.
Sam Russell wrote: » Croom is 20 km south of Limerick, and would be a bit further than Bray or Malahide from Dublin CC. Adare is not in the same direction either. I cannot see either as suitable for Dart like commuter services. Croom does not have the population at any level to support heavy rail. I think that Luas would be a better solution for both Limerick and Cork with a multiline network, incorporating P&R. Limerick University would be a good destination, as would Shannon Airport.
riddlinrussell wrote: » Sorry I should have been more specific, I more meant that enforcing rail option analysis during road construction (where remotely viable) in general should lead to valuable studies of the viability of rail in many locations. With this specific example, if the feasibility studies come to the same conclusion as you (rail isn't viable to Adare/Croom) then hopefully that means more focus made on a Limerick Luas solution instead of the already deemed infeasible rail options etc.
cgcsb wrote: » The Limerick to Limerick Junction line is to be dualed and electrified as part of LSMATS anyway.
cantalach wrote: » Seriously?! Dualing fine, but electrifying that line would be absolute madness. Californian politicians agonised for more than two decades about electrifying the diesel service from San Jose to San Francisco. That project is well underway now but there are still major doubts about the likely ROI. If an electrification project isn't viable in one of the most developed corridors in the World, then I cannot imagine how it could be justified between Limerick and the Junction.
cgcsb wrote: » Limerick to Limerick Junction is also the main Dublin to Limerick route so it's justifiable on that basis alone without considering Cork to Limerick.
California is America, they dont do public transport
cantalach wrote: » I’m from Limerick so I understand the geography. If you electrify Limerick to the Junction but not the Cork-Dublin line, then that implies changing trains at the Junction. That’s not the way anyone wants to travel Limerick-Dublin. When I last lived in Limerick, anyone who even remotely paid attention to the timetable eschewed the shuttle option and took one of the direct services. That is the fastest option, and investing in a slower option makes no sense to me, even leaving aside cost-benefit considerations.
cantalach wrote: » I’m afraid that’s just not true. It’s not all like LA. Lots of places over there have public transport options that put ours to shame. Silicon Valley (i.e. where this electrification is happening) isn’t even in the top tier but nevertheless has light rail and, believe it or not, a pretty good cycling infrastructure. I’ve used the aforementioned diesel service a number of times and the trains are very busy mornings and evenings. Still they doubt that the electrification will pay for itself. That’s why it is a valid comparison.
cgcsb wrote: » It doesn't have to pay for it's self, again, this isn't America. Will the M20 pay for it's self?
Isambard wrote: » Many times over, the motorist is taxed up to the hilt.
cgcsb wrote: » How is that? will the M20 generate more motor tax?
cgcsb wrote: » Obviously Dublin to Cork would also be electrified
It doesn't have to pay for it's self, again, this isn't America. Will the M20 pay for it's self?
AugustusMinimus wrote: » Between motor tax, VRT, VAT and carbon levy the Irish motorist is one of the most heavily taxed in Europe. While taxes from these sources aren’t obviously ring fenced for road spending, you’d obviously hope than even a basic standard of road would be maintained and developed including a motorway between the 2nd and 3rd city in the state. There seems to be an attitude in Ireland that motorists complaining about such issues is wrong and some people’s responses to motorists being taxed to the hilt is “So what?”
