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US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Quin_Dub

Continuation thread from here

All existing rules still stand.

Everyone will want to be active in this thread over the next few days , but there will be zero tolerance for Forum rule breaches.

Keep it Sensible , Civil and Polite please.

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Blowfish

Gunmonkey wrote: »

"Your honour, these machines can be easily hacked and fake votes added to the tally. You need to dis-avow all the votes for Sleepy Joe Biden as the Democrats faked all his votes!"
"Ok, so these CAN be hacked to produce fake votes but can you prove the Democrats actually DID this?"
"Errrr no!"

It boggles the mind

His approach is to demonise the company that makes the machines and with zero evidence repeatedly call them 'radical left democrats'. He's instinctually aware of the illusory effect in psychology where most people will believe false information to be correct after repeated exposure. He's completely unaware of the fact however that this is not how courts work. This is why the court cases bear no reality to the 'widespread fraud' that he keeps claiming and end up being about process issues or a handful of questioned ballots.

Ironically in his repetition of lies, the person he's actually most convincing is himself. He'll keep repeating it until it's the absolute truth that he believes. To him, of course the Democrats cheated, he's far too smart to have lost to Biden legitimately.

Foxtrol

OAN is some crazy station. This is what Trump's base supporters are consuming and warping their brains. They've given NC to Trump but won't give MI to Biden, despite Biden having a 40,000 greater lead there.

https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1328332566089314304?s=20

TomOnBoard

Foxtrol wrote: »

OAN is some crazy station. This is what Trump's base supporters are consuming and warping their brains. They've given NC to Trump but won't give MI to Biden, despite Biden having a 40,000 greater lead there.

https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1328332566089314304?s=20

OANN and Newsmax appear to have taken over the Joseph Goebbels division of Conservative messaging. The folks in Fox are gonna have to compete with them for customers and are now facing a big threat, as viewers switch allegiances as advised by Trump et al. So, either the raging lies and bull**** out of Fox that have characterised their programming for years (with notable exceptions) will be ramped up to compete with the crazy fringe stuff out of OAN/Newsmax, or they're gonna have to go after the more moderate, less cultish parts of Trumpland and distinguish themselves in that space.

Brian?

TomOnBoard wrote: »

OANN and Newsmax appear to have taken over the Joseph Goebbels division of Conservative messaging. The folks in Fox are gonna have to compete with them for customers and are now facing a big threat, as viewers switch allegiances as advised by Trump et al. So, either the raging lies and bull**** out of Fox that have characterised their programming for years (with notable exceptions) will be ramped up to compete with the crazy fringe stuff out of OAN/Newsmax, or they're gonna have to go after the more moderate, less cultish parts of Trumpland and distinguish themselves in that space.

I'm a regular watcher of OAN. It's actually hilarious. I haven't seen Newsmaz though.

By comparison to OAN, Fox is actually fair and balanced.

Brussels Sprout

Brian? wrote: »

I'm a regular watcher of OAN. It's actually hilarious. I haven't seen Newsmaz though.

By comparison to OAN, Fox is actually fair and balanced.

It's certainly funny in an ironic "I can't believe they are peddling this sh1t" kind of way but it's also deeply worrying. A large section of the American population don't seem to possess the critical thinking skills to realise that this stuff is a pack of lies and will assume that it's just as legit as the regular networks because "it feels right to me".

When objective truth itself becomes debatable then you end up in a world where nothing is really true. You see this in action when Trump supporters are presented with evidence that some point that they just made was not accurate and they just dismiss it as propaganda. To me as a rational person that's frightening.

It also reminds me of these tweets that I saw the other day from an Intensive Care nurse in South Dakota:

https://twitter.com/JodiDoering/status/1327771329555292162

josip

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

Water John

josip wrote: »

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

If he had helped keep alive the quarter of a million who have died, they'd be around to benefit from the vaccine.

pixelburp

This was an election of minds made up: for sure the admin would have milked the vaccines for all their worth and likely been front & centre of its campaign. However, after 4 years of Trump the undecideds and unsures were thin on the ground IMO, with partisanship more rooted than ever - as evident by the fact this was a much narrower election than it should / could have been. A last minute convenience can't have shoved the needle that much.

Foxtrol

josip wrote: »

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

I don't think it would have made any difference. Trump had lost credibility amongst those that didn't vote for him, they either wouldn't have believed the news (due to all his previous lying) or else wouldn't have trusted Trump to roll it out competently (given how he hasn't been able to get a handle around testing or tracing and we're 9 months in).

Brian?

josip wrote: »

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

Given that Trump had nothing to do with the vaccine, I wouldn’t say it would have helped him much

beggars_bush

josip wrote: »

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

I think its hilarious.

everlast75

josip wrote: »

Does anyone think if the Pfizer and Moderna announcements had been made 2 weeks ago that it would have influenced the result in the swing states?
Some on here were saying that Covid19 wasn't a decisive issue for the US electorate, but the Dems did campaign a lot based on how badly Trump had handled it.
If Trump had two > 90% vaccines announced in the run up to polling, it could only have improved his percentage, but by how much?

Not at all. Sure it was gone by easter, and was the same as the flu after all...

astrofool

Brian? wrote: »

Given that Trump had nothing to do with the vaccine, I wouldn’t say it would have helped him much

He would have claimed it anyway, you'd have had the usual crowd crowing about trump defeating the virus, and justifying their superspreader events.

Brian?

astrofool wrote: »

He would have claimed it anyway, you'd have had the usual crowd crowing about trump defeating the virus, and justifying their superspreader events.

Oh I completely agree that would have happened. It wouldn’t have made a difference outside the cult though.

listermint

Well I think this constitutes as pretty big news. Republican party are a stain on democracy

https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/status/1328491046939090945

sdanseo

If that's true the FBI need to get involved immediately. Attempting to coerce a state official to commit fraud is blatantly illegal.

listermint

sdanseo wrote: »

If that's true the FBI need to get involved immediately. Attempting to coerce a state official to commit fraud is blatantly illegal.

Well it's very much the exact official involved , a republican too telling us Graham came in to him and said it. Hard to get more red handed than that.

Wanderer78

listermint wrote:

Well I think this constitutes as pretty big news. Republican party are a stain on democracy

Democracy, in America!

Quin_Dub

This messing in Georgia is really putting those seats in play.

Immediately after the Election I reckoned that both seats would stay GOP - The absence of Trump from the ballot and the fact that with both seats up for election it would be harder for the Democrats to isolate Loeffler who is by far the more venerable, was going to make for an easier path for the GOP.

But now - With this constant assault on Georgia voters and process , they are managing to dilute that advantage considerably.

I still think that the seats will stay with Red , but it's getting much closer that I thought it might be.

pixelburp

"But at least he never started a war!" cried the apologists; not for the lack of trying, replied the New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/us/politics/trump-iran-nuclear.html

Not content with hi refusal to concede the election like an emotionally stunted individual - or indeed, a tantrum-throwing toddler - looks like Trump has been trying to start a war the next guy would have to fix.

WASHINGTON — President Trump asked senior advisers in an Oval Office meeting on Thursday whether he had options to take action against Iran’s main nuclear site in the coming weeks. The meeting occurred a day after international inspectors reported a significant increase in the country’s stockpile of nuclear material, four current and former U.S. officials said on Monday.

Wanderer78

pixelburp wrote: »

"But at least he never started a war!" cried the apologists; not for the lack of trying, replied the New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/us/politics/trump-iran-nuclear.html

Not content with hi refusal to concede the election like an emotionally stunted individual - or indeed, a tantrum-throwing toddler - looks like Trump has been trying to start a war the next guy would have to fix.

hes probably done a good job of potentially starting one, in america!

valoren

So he has literally gone into scorch the earth mode.

looksee

And that business of selling off large chunks of the Alaskan National Park for oil drilling is just appalling. Rushing through business to get it done before he leaves office, doing as much damage as possible. What benefit is it to him unless he is arranging back-handers? It won't get him (significant) votes next time.

Safehands

Brian? wrote: »

It wouldn’t have made a difference outside the cult though.

I think it may have swung it for him. If Pfizer and Modena had announced the imminent release of their vaccines before the election, the Republicans would have had a field day. They would have claimed that the Trump administration paid for and encouraged the production of these vaccines. The results were tight enough as it was.

MJohnston

It wouldn't have been the vaccine creation that would have swung it for Trump, it would have been the portion of voters for whom COVID was their top concern, and the fact that most people saw Trump as utterly useless at handling it.

With a vaccine on the horizon, people would have had different concerns (even though COVID will still be a massive problem for another 6 months at a bare minimum) and the age old "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?" question would have been foremost.

Brian?

Safehands wrote: »

I think it may have swung it for him. If Pfizer and Modena had announced the imminent release of their vaccines before the election, the Republicans would have had a field day. They would have claimed that the Trump administration paid for and encouraged the production of these vaccines. The results were tight enough as it was.

They would have tried that, but it would have been too little too late IMO. Look at how heavily the early voting favoured Biden.

The results were close in a couple of states, but it really wasn't that right.

dogbert27

looksee wrote: »

And that business of selling off large chunks of the Alaskan National Park for oil drilling is just appalling. Rushing through business to get it done before he leaves office, doing as much damage as possible. What benefit is it to him unless he is arranging back-handers? It won't get him (significant) votes next time.

Probably got himself or the family to be named as board members for the companies invovled.

gmisk

Safehands wrote: »

I think it may have swung it for him. If Pfizer and Modena had announced the imminent release of their vaccines before the election, the Republicans would have had a field day. They would have claimed that the Trump administration paid for and encouraged the production of these vaccines. The results were tight enough as it was.

That is only true for the Moderna one though.
No matter what way Trump and his administration want to spin it they weren't involved at all in the development etc.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-vaccine-funded-by-trump/
They basically just said they would buy it if it was successful.
I honestly don't see that swinging the election his way.
His administrations handling of it has been an absolute disaster.

Christy42

gmisk wrote: »

That is only true for the Moderna one though.
No matter what way Trump and his administration want to spin it they weren't involved at all in the development etc.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-vaccine-funded-by-trump/
They basically just said they would buy it if it was successful.
I honestly don't see that swinging the election his way.
His administrations handling of it has been an absolute disaster.

So what. When was the last time that facts actually mattered? It would have been hailed as a great Trump victory. CNN would have wondered if it would help Trump though they obviously would say that he did not help the development. Fox would say he had essentially been in the lab. OANN would say he was the only scientist involved. Then they would have immediately gone back to bashing science without a hint of the contradictions.

Mentioning facts on boards would not have helped.

Would it have swung it for him and should it have swung it for him are two very different questions.

TomOnBoard

The latest cuckoo tweets from Sidney Powell (her to have been Mike Flynn's 'lawyer' and a certifiable loon to boot) would be entertaining if the subject was not so serious. Herself and Rudey now seem to be the last bastions of legal hope for Donald's failed coup attempt.

It is FRIGHTENING how the lunatic fringe is so deeply embedded in the POTUS reclamation effort by Trump. Does anyone seriously think this is anything other than an effort to suck the last traces of blood from the Trump cult corpse?

Bat**** Crazy tinfoil hat stuff!

https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1328557110418935809?s=19