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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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tomasrojo

Donnybrook on the way to and from the Stillorgan dual carriageway is really bad for that (and motorists losing their lane on the bend because they're going too quickly), but I go there very rarely, for that very reason.

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

Donnybrook on the way to and from the Stillorgan dual carriageway is really bad for that (and motorists losing their lane on the bend because they're going too quickly), but I go there very rarely, for that very reason.

You have to take the lane there, no other choice, drivers often can't stay in their lane through that S bend. Its only 20 seconds but the behaviours from some are insane. From people talking about not being visible to cars, you often see cars pull across buses and fire trucks to park at the row of shops after the fire station. Its not you who are invisible, it is some people do not look, simple as that.

Breezer

tomasrojo wrote: »

Donnybrook on the way to and from the Stillorgan dual carriageway is really bad for that (and motorists losing their lane on the bend because they're going too quickly), but I go there very rarely, for that very reason.

I was knocked down there years ago by a guy in a van who tried to squeeze by me. Don’t even think about using the cycle lane there, it’s awful.

beauf

tomasrojo wrote: »

Anyway, I don't want to gainsay other people's experience. I suspect some of my experience is down to the routes I frequent, which overall have a lot of cyclists, so people driving expect them passing a bit more. In fact, it's quite hard to get drivers to turn left sometimes, as they wait for you to pass on the inside, which I don't really like doing when someone has already signalled an intention to turn.

Driver and cyclist behaviour is very route dependent. Different routes cause different behaviour. Which is why people's experience varies.

Lights are the same. 2 front and back different types of flashing in the city. When I hit poorly lit roads I often turn both fronts to steady and stagger where they hit in front. So I have a figure of 8 on the ground in front and a longer throw off light adjusted for my speed.

zell12

Letter in Sindo

tomasrojo

He sure sees a lot of people that are invisible.

tomasrojo

Also, he thinks there *isn't* a government initiative to give hi-vis out for free?

tomasrojo

Also, the people he lauds for their visibility aren't wearing hi-vis, unless he thinks "bright colours" are hi-vis.

zell12

You should sent in a retort tomasrojo!

tomasrojo

I might. I find it hard to work up the enthusiasm to write something that isn't just sarcastic posts though.

Macy0161

Gardai at it again yesterday. VRU's, use Hi-Viz, the motorist advice again does not include watch out for VRU's, drive at speed you can stop in the distance you can see. Victim blaming continues...

Assistant Garda Commissioner David Sheahan also warned people of how vulnerable road users are.

As the evenings get darker, he said those out walking and cycling should be wearing hi-visibility clothing.

For drivers, he said two essential safety measures they should adhere to every day is wear a seatbelt and put mobile phones away while driving.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1117/1092406-remembrance-day-for-traffic-victims/

magicbastarder

For drivers, he said two essential safety measures they should adhere to every day is don't break the ****ing law, and don't break the ****ing law

i think i fixed that there

RobertFoster

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think i fixed that there

Homeowners: Keep your doors locked.

Burglars: Ah stop.

zell12

Donegal Cllr says fines should be considered for pedestrians who walk on rural roads without wearing hi-vis clothing.
https://www.highlandradio.com/2019/12/14/fines-should-be-considered-for-not-wearing-hi-vis-clothing-crossan/

magicbastarder

seems you now need a hi-vis (over your suit) to start answering phones.
(yes, i know the topic being referred to and the photo used may have no link whatsoever)

https://twitter.com/John_McGahon/status/1247072543531466752

buffalo

magicbastarder wrote: »

seems you now need a hi-vis (over your suit) to start answering phones.
(yes, i know the topic being referred to and the photo used may have no link whatsoever)

He's been on too many construction site photo-ops if he thinks that's appropriate PPE for returning to medicine!

tomasrojo

I guess the caller might seek clarification about how conspicuously their interlocutor is dressed. Best to be prepared.

Reminds me of that joke about UK adult chatlines in late October/early November.

Caller: Tell me what you are wearing
Girl: Nothing
Caller: WHERE IS YOUR POPPY!

rubadub

tomasrojo wrote: »

Reminds me of that joke about UK adult chatlines in late October/early November.

which reminds me of the poor strip clubs that had to close

EUPOiPzU4AEky-3?format=jpg&name=large

but some got new jobs doing delivers as "boober eats".

NSFW, well maybe that does not apply if you are at home!
https://manofmany.com/lifestyle/food/boober-eats-topless-delivery-service

This one is safe, "uber eats" went and sent a cease & desist
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/boober-eats-uber-lucky-devil-strip-club-dancers-delivering-dinners.html

tomasrojo

It's one terrible job after another really, isn't it?

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/SurreyRoadCops/status/1266129897078087681

Stark

Some very intelligent considered replies from Jez TG there.

tomasrojo

There was a case in the UK previously where a driver ran into a lollipop man and the lollipop man's hi-viz apparel was blamed, allegedly blending with the low sun.

Here's another one, with vegetation blending thrown in:

Jones had been wearing a high-vis jacket. Asked by Jim Davis, prosecuting, how she had failed to see him “right in front of your bonnet,” Powell replied: “The lighting coming through the trees and foliage on the side had created a flickering effect and I believe the high visibility jacket blended in with that.”

https://road.cc/content/news/hi-vis-jacket-blended-trees-277019

tomasrojo

Galway councillor lobbying Eamon Ryan for mandatory hi-viz:
https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1304324735149449217

Doesn't seem very likely to work.

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/pward82/status/1328363650327961606

eeeee

I was out 5k lapping after work and saw a cyclist up ahead who, as I got closer was wearing one of those all reflective jackets - like the proviz ones under a backpack. I couldn't believe how indistinct it was (I was going through Ringsend at the time, a pretty noisy spot visually). The jacket made no difference to their visibility at all, but their rear light did, that's how I spotted them in the first place. Maybe strips stand out more than a whole jacket in a visually busy environment?
I have seen them pretty effective in the phoenix park at night when car headlights shine on them, although they're invisible without (even under the wee gaslamps on Chesterfield Avenue).

Today was the first time I saw someone wear one of those jackets with lights on their bike too. Now that I don't understand! (the no lights just hi viz thing).

magicbastarder

i've had similar experiences with those proviz jackets, they're only visible when you're in a line with the light shining on them.

eeeee

Yeah, my front light lit it up as I got closer to it (flashing). The lack of lights that usually goes with them confuses me. I don't think they understand how light works.

tomasrojo

I've noticed it as well. Same as the strips on the standard hi-viz jacket: if you are near a powerful light source shining nearly directly onto the reflective fabric, they're very effective. But a fair bit of the time, you aren't aligned like that. Even as a car occupant, a cyclist in quite a few scenarios (roundabouts, right-turn lanes, for example) can be off to your right, and your headlights throw more to the left.

The leitfmotif of this thread: reflectors aren't a substitute for pretty decent lights.

07Lapierre

I think this video shows why lights trump hi viz.

The cyclist is visible at the 30 second mark. You only See the hi viz at the two minute mark!

https://youtu.be/57IOduT8hg8

tomasrojo

The pedal reflectors aren't too shabby in that, but they're visible very, very late, compared with the rear light.