The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

joeguevara wrote: »

Was it a confidential proposal?

He asked for permission to proceed.

Not to my knowledge. Howell was a party member of long standing...slightly different to the Varadkar leaking to a rival union, not party to the negotiations.

James Brown

walshb wrote: »

This is just downright silly..

SF have elected and unelected people devising and forming party policy. Some would be former IRA. This is common knowledge.
Any 'army council' would be pointless. And yes, such talk is silly.

walshb wrote: »

This is just downright silly..

Nothing silly about it. What is an army council if there is no 'army'?

It is just a scary term beloved of the conspiracy theorists

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not to my knowledge. Howell was a party member of long standing...slightly different to the Varadkar leaking to a rival union, not party to the negotiations.

Howell, a Belfast man who is in his early 70s, keeps a low profile, but Ed Moloney, author of A secret history of the IRA, has described him as “a reticent but enormously influential activist who doubled as chairman of the party’s think tank, the body that directed the peace process for the SF leadership”.

Moloney also portrayed him as Gerry Adams’s “most trusted adviser and counsellor” and “a highly secretive figure” who was “arguably one of the most influential figures in the Provisionals”.

Sinn Féin also has other backroom people with senior IRA pedigrees who appear to wield considerable influence. They include Padraic Wilson and Martin Lynch, whom Ó Muilleoir also consulted about RHI, and Sean “Spike” Murray and Bobby Storey.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Reminds me of what FG executive council did when Coveney was elected leader by the membership

There was an election for FG leader, it resulted in the election of Leo Varadker.

Age had nothing to do with it.

It has been reported as having been run according to that party's rules /constituency.

FG executive Council, from media reports they did not decide the replacement for Enda Kenny.

joeguevara wrote: »

Howell, a Belfast man who is in his early 70s, keeps a low profile, but Ed Moloney, author of A secret history of the IRA, has described him as “a reticent but enormously influential activist who doubled as chairman of the party’s think tank, the body that directed the peace process for the SF leadership”.

Moloney also portrayed him as Gerry Adams’s “most trusted adviser and counsellor” and “a highly secretive figure” who was “arguably one of the most influential figures in the Provisionals”.

Sinn Féin also has other backroom people with senior IRA pedigrees who appear to wield considerable influence. They include Padraic Wilson and Martin Lynch, whom Ó Muilleoir also consulted about RHI, and Sean “Spike” Murray and Bobby Storey.

Which bit of that scares you?

Do you for a second think that the only people influencing political parties are the elected ones?

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats just FG particular take on democracy...the guy who gets 66% of the vote loses

Not a normal party

They ran the election according to their constitution, according to media reports.

Maybe you could suggest a campaign that SF might run, "FG not a normal party.":D

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which bit of that scares you?

Do you for a second think that the only people influencing political parties are the elected ones?

None of it scares me tbh. I just find it a bit hypocritical that sf supporters lambast others for sharing documents but very few know that every decision made was by a group of 7 men that also directed brutal murders.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is he the same ed moloney who.claimed jean mcconville was smothered with a plastic bag in a train station car park??

Except when her body,was thankfully,recovered a rather large bullet hole was found in its skull?

Don’t know. Google him

joeguevara wrote: »

None of it scares me tbh. I just find it a bit hypocritical that sf supporters lambast others for sharing documents but very few know that every decision made was by a group of 7 men that also directed brutal murders.

Where have I lambasted anyone for sharing documents with another party member?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where have I lambasted anyone for sharing documents with another party member?

So if Maitiú is a FG member all is forgiven?

Deleted User wrote: »

I do know,he is a dishonest comemtator,whos book is packed with somewhat lazy retrospective anyslis (its 20 years old now iirc).....and many of the,at the time,new claims within it,that made it a best-seller have been found out to be factually incorrect

Its.a interesting tale he weaves,but whom ever was suppling him,with the info was full.of sh1t

Is he wrong about Howell being a high ranking member of the IRA, or was he a mild mannered tillage farmer from gweedore?

joeguevara wrote: »

So if Maitiú is a FG member all is forgiven?

I presume that is an attempt at comedy?

Deleted User wrote: »

Seems to me,a party in which someone who gets 66% of the vote and loses isnt normal

How is 33% of votes,worth more than 66%,these guys dont really understand democracy[/QUOTE]

They use a weighted system according to their rules.
These rules came into effect in 2002.
Prior to this the leader was chosen solely by their parliamentary party.

The 2002 rules say that a weighting is applied to each component of the electoral college.

Who chooses the various leaders, uachtaran, ni leader of SF.

joeguevara wrote: »

Is he wrong about Howell being a high ranking member of the IRA, or was he a mild mannered tillage farmer from gweedore?

Hardly a scoop. Everyone knows Howell was in the IRA. Did you know Martin McGuinness was in it too?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I presume that is an attempt at comedy?

No. You have no issue with someone sharing confidential papers as long as they are a party member a la Howell. So if matiu is a FG member, surely according to your thinking, FG can share papers with him.

I doubt it was expected that o Muilleoir would share th8ngs with one of the heads of the provos before decisions could be made, but according to you, he is a member so nothing wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

I didnt say this,but many of the info within is factually incorrect and over blown

Id tread wary of using him as a source,he isnt v.good at dissiminating factual from bullsh1t info.....

.the ira army council met a handful of times in the troubles (for obvious reasons),and now lads have convinced emselves its meeting up to propose building social houses,im afraid to me,this isnt a plausible conspiracy theory

He destroyed his reputation over the Boston Tapes debacle. You don't tend to hear from these days. Must look him up actually.

Deleted User wrote: »

I didnt say this,but many of the info within is factually incorrect and over blown

Id tread wary of using him as a source,he isnt v.good at dissiminating factual from bullsh1t info.....

.the ira army council met a handful of times in the troubles (for obvious reasons),and now lads have convinced emselves its meeting up to propose building social houses,im afraid to me,this isnt a plausible conspiracy theory

Agreed, I was only using his description of Howell which appears to be spot on though. Howell by all accounts was a very intelligent and respected man so can understand why his say so was key in many instances. I mean that in a good way.

joeguevara wrote: »

No. You have no issue with someone sharing confidential papers as long as they are a party member a la Howell. So if matiu is a FG member, surely according to your thinking, FG can share papers with him.

I doubt it was expected that o Muilleoir would share th8ngs with one of the heads of the provos before decisions could be made, but according to you, he is a member so nothing wrong.

Seriously?
Do you think any party member sits in high level negotiations and takes decisions without consulting other members of the party?

Really? Ever hear of Dominic Cummings?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He destroyed his reputation over the Boston Tapes debacle. You don't tend to hear from these days. Must look him up actually.

What was the Boston tapes Francie? Is there any good articles or podcasts on it?

Solutionking

Deleted User wrote: »

Is he the same ed moloney who.claimed jean mcconville was smothered with a plastic bag in a train station car park??

Except when her body,was thankfully,recovered a rather large bullet hole was found in its her skull?

Maybe a little bit of respect for the poor lady.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Seriously?
Do you think any party member sits in high level negotiations and takes decisions without consulting other members of the party?

Really? Ever hear of Dominic Cummings?

Dominic Cummings is a pr1ck. Don’t know why he is so highly thought of.

However he had already received the sign off of senior members and politicians in SF. But had to go to Howell in the council.

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh sh1t.....im 100% in the wrong here and i apoligise

Post has been amended

I don’t think anyone for one second thought that you meant that. Good to have amended the post.

McMurphy

walshb wrote: »

Google IRA army council..

Plenty reading on it..

SF members were on it...

And in other news..... scientists have discovered water is wet.

So what?

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate,what weighted system overturns a 66% total vote into a loss and still calls itself a democracy,they are fooling noone

A weighting was applied to the component parts of the electoral college, that apparently is the way they run.

"fooling no one"

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

The NI /deputy leader role went to an election.
There were no public hustings.

Many political parties have what they call hustings when they have leadership elections.

John O'Dowd, former NI assembly minister went up against Michelle O'Neil.

O'Dowd gave no media interviews prior to the election.

Has poor John been heard of since.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-sinn-fein-voting-numbers-for-odowd-v-oneill-leadership-contest-38716424.html

joeguevara wrote: »

What was the Boston tapes Francie? Is there any good articles or podcasts on it?

Fascinating debacle. Look it up, will give you a good insight into journalistic ethics.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fascinating debacle. Look it up, will give you a good insight into journalistic ethics.

Just started reading about it. Fcucking hell. How did I miss this?

imme wrote: »

A weighting was applied to the component parts of the electoral college, that apparently is the way they run.

"fooling no one"

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

The NI /deputy leader role went to an election.
There were no public hustings.

Many political parties have what they call hustings when they have leadership elections.

John O'Dowd, former NI assembly minister went up against Michelle O'Neil.

O'Dowd gave no media interviews prior to the election.

Has poor John been heard of since.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-sinn-fein-voting-numbers-for-odowd-v-oneill-leadership-contest-38716424.html

Honest to god...where do you guys get this stuff from? Is there a rumour briefing being given somewhere I don't know about?

https://twitter.com/JohnODowdSF