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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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[Deleted User]

Not convinced on current form many of those names would force their way into the Irish 23.

Eod100

Besides, RTE and C4 is it just Premier Sports that shows games here? Or can you get games besides Ireland's ones on Amazon Prime?

realhorrorshow

Deleted User wrote: »

Not convinced on current form many of those names would force their way into the Irish 23.

The current wales team are showing what a good job Gatland did with limited resources. When was the past time they brought through a top class player?

Dubinusa

shootermacg wrote: »

Kelleher's throwing is dodgy...and that's to Toner. Adding him to a lineout that's already creaking is not a good idea IMO. Marshall and O'Byrne are currently throwing darts, no idea why they aren't involved.

O'Byrne is shyte

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

O'Byrne is shyte

Thats just nonsense. Care to expand on that or are you able to do that?
His darts are good, he's a good ball carrier, scrummaging is good.

sydthebeat

Dubinusa wrote: »

O'Byrne is shyte

groundbreaking player dossier there

Dog Botherer

i think he’s nice

Dubinusa

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Thats just nonsense. Care to expand on that or are you able to do that?
His darts are good, he's a good ball carrier, scrummaging is good.

He's third choice at Munster!! Behind Scannell and Marshall. Prone to take penalties. Has not been a go to guy and usually benches. He's not the answer.
Scannell on the other hand. Would be a real contender, if fit. I think when he's healthy and up to speed he can be in the XxIII.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

He's third choice at Munster!! Behind Scannell and Marshall. Prone to take penalties. Has not been a go to guy and usually benches. He's not the answer.
Scannell on the other hand. Would be a real contender, if fit. I think when he's healthy and up to speed he can be in the XxIII.

He isnt shyte though which is what you said. And 3rd choice at a province hasnt stopped many players being involved deservedly for the national side before. Also Marshall has been injured a fair bit the last season or two...
He isnt prone to giving away penalties. Care to show links to how many penalties he concedes?

Yeah_Right

Niallof9 wrote: »

who's overegging ..unfortunately or fortunately they are producing a heap of our elite young talent.

Baird looks class and seems to have real zip in his carrying something we have been missing for a long time.

Henderson needs to start living up to his early promise in Green.

Thank heavens Andy Farrell seems to be from a different school of thought to some of you guys. HE trusts form, invests in inexperience. That is something even though i don't think its far enough.

You've changed your tune a bit in less than a day.

lawrencesummers

A lot of people writing off Wales could be talking out the other side of their mount by Saturday.

Pivac is a proven top class coach who knows how to win, I don’t doubt that he will get wales to be very competitive at some stage.

Saying goodbye to their defence coach since their last outing can go one of two ways, it could bring about a positive backlash from the players or a negative one.

Meanwhile we have a very questionable set piece which we base our attacking play off and some debutants at this level.

A big performance from Wales wouldnt surprise me in the slightest. Losing to scotland in your backyard won’t sit well with those players.

OneLungDavy

realhorrorshow wrote: »

The current wales team are showing what a good job Gatland did with limited resources. When was the past time they brought through a top class player?

Josh Adams

Dubinusa

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He isnt shyte though which is what you said. And 3rd choice at a province hasnt stopped many players being involved deservedly for the national side before. Also Marshall has been injured a fair bit the last season or two...
He isnt prone to giving away penalties. Care to show links to how many penalties he concedes?

Anytime I've watched him he appears to on the edge. Always barking

aloooof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You've changed your tune a bit in less than a day.

Maybe it wasn't such the "shocking squad" that was made out.

theVersatile

O'Byrne has surpassed Scannell IMO and is jossling with Marshall for first choice. He's got a serious skill set which could be very useful in the new more expansive style. He's a far cry from starting for Ireland obviously but I don't think a call up is too far out of the ordinary to consider. As for Cronin, yes the penalties are an issue (he gave away what, three in five minutes the last day?) but he offers a jackal threat that Healy and Byrne (to what I can see anyways)dont.

Imagine, a pack of Cronin Herring Porter, Beirne, ANother CJ, POM and JVDF would offer some serious breakdown threat under the new interpretations.

UAEguy2020

Kevin O'Byrne has been fantastic, I dont know what more people want from their hooker , He 's reliable in the line out, he can carry, he can offload, he can jackal...what else do you want from him? I wouldnt even mind calling him up to the Irish squad if he can get a run of games.

UAEguy2020

lawrencesummers wrote: »

A lot of people writing off Wales could be talking out the other side of their mount by Saturday.

Pivac is a proven top class coach who knows how to win, I don’t doubt that he will get wales to be very competitive at some stage.

Saying goodbye to their defence coach since their last outing can go one of two ways, it could bring about a positive backlash from the players or a negative one.

Meanwhile we have a very questionable set piece which we base our attacking play off and some debutants at this level.

A big performance from Wales wouldnt surprise me in the slightest. Losing to scotland in your backyard won’t sit well with those players.

My issue with Wales when Pivac took over was that there was more he had to do than just coach the team, for me his coaching style at test level is designed for having a system like the Irish system where you have all the regions/provinces come together to the point where the national team is like a 5th province. The reason for this is the system he plays is very hard to pull off when you have players coming from all over the place and a regional game that havent really come together, we even saw with the Scarlets at the start of 2016-2017 how much work goes in to getting the system right.

I cant see any situation it will be a positive impact, getting rid of your defense coach the week before an international when you have lost 5 on the spin without a proper replacement ready would indicate to me that there must be some player power involved which is never a good sign when you are losing, I would have been more worried about Wales if they kept him as it would indicate that there was a real togetherness about the group.

Wales on paper are very dangerous and I would not go in complacent at all as they do have the players that can cause serious damage if we arent up for it.

I do think if we do our jobs right and remain focus we should have too much not just looking at where Wales are but lets not forget they arent the only ones going into this match wanting to let off steam, Ireland just lost a championship 2 weeks ago and if anything will really want to lay down a marker for this.

I do think the bookies have it about right but honestly for me Ireland-Wales fixtures are always very difficult to call, I do think we should win but it could be anywhere from a 15-20 point win to a nail biter.

El_Duderino 09

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Kevin O'Byrne has been fantastic, I dont know what more people want from their hooker , He 's reliable in the line out, he can carry, he can offload, he can jackal...what else do you want from him? I wouldnt even mind calling him up to the Irish squad if he can get a run of games.

I agree. I think he’s been great since lockdown and he’s been everywhere during the past few games while the Ireland team is away.
I think he’s proven all he can to Male the next step to be considered for Munster first team selection.

He has done it against the second string teams and now it’s tome to see if he can do it against the full opposition teams.

That’s not to say he can’t manage the step up, but he has earned the opportunity to see if he can do it.

KOB and RK fighting for the top spot would be a seriously dynamic hooker choice for loose games - but KOB needs to prove himself at the higher level first.

Dog Botherer

Dubinusa wrote: »

Anytime I've watched him he appears to on the edge. Always barking

are you sure you aren’t watching reruns of Lassie?

lawrencesummers

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

My issue with Wales when Pivac took over was that there was more he had to do than just coach the team, for me his coaching style at test level is designed for having a system like the Irish system where you have all the regions/provinces come together to the point where the national team is like a 5th province. The reason for this is the system he plays is very hard to pull off when you have players coming from all over the place and a regional game that havent really come together, we even saw with the Scarlets at the start of 2016-2017 how much work goes in to getting the system right.

I cant see any situation it will be a positive impact, getting rid of your defense coach the week before an international when you have lost 5 on the spin without a proper replacement ready would indicate to me that there must be some player power involved which is never a good sign when you are losing, I would have been more worried about Wales if they kept him as it would indicate that there was a real togetherness about the group.

Wales on paper are very dangerous and I would not go in complacent at all as they do have the players that can cause serious damage if we arent up for it.

I do think if we do our jobs right and remain focus we should have too much not just looking at where Wales are but lets not forget they arent the only ones going into this match wanting to let off steam, Ireland just lost a championship 2 weeks ago and if anything will really want to lay down a marker for this.

I do think the bookies have it about right but honestly for me Ireland-Wales fixtures are always very difficult to call, I do think we should win but it could be anywhere from a 15-20 point win to a nail biter.

Gatland had a long time at the helm with Wales, and had great success. A lot of the starting team this week played the majority of their career under him so the change we all know Pivac is going to implement utilising the wide- wide approach will take time.

The worry is that the Wales stalwarts might be a bit to old in the tooth to adapt and change, and he might have to bring in fresh faces to make that change effective.

Time will tell.

TRANQUILLO

More NZ born players than Munster born players in the starting team.

I find that a bit disheartening to be honest.

bilston

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

More NZ born players than Munster born players in the starting team.

I find that a bit disheartening to be honest.

I get it, but its the modern game, I've probably watched an Ulster team with more Leinster born players than Ulster born players at some point in the last 2 years and obviously if you dwell on it it can be a bone of contention. But in all honesty when the match is on they are all Ulster players and the same can be said for Ireland. CJ Stander and Bundee Aki give everything for Ireland, they've turned their lives upside down to play for Ireland in a way that no one born in Ireland would ever have to do. That has to count for something.

So yes, I understand the sentiment, but it's modern professional sport. Anyway, the 5 year residency rule will make it pretty rare by the time the 2027 WC comes round for project players to be lining out for Ireland.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

I get it, but its the modern game, I've probably watched an Ulster team with more Leinster born players than Ulster born players at some point in the last 2 years and obviously if you dwell on it it can be a bone of contention. But in all honesty when the match is on they are all Ulster players and the same can be said for Ireland. CJ Stander and Bundee Aki give everything for Ireland, they've turned their lives upside down to play for Ireland in a way that no one born in Ireland would ever have to do. That has to count for something.

So yes, I understand the sentiment, but it's modern professional sport. Anyway, the 5 year residency rule will make it pretty rare by the time the 2027 WC comes round for project players to be lining out for Ireland.

It'd be hard to be more cynical than the recruitment of Jared Payne. BOD was winding up, and DHumph went out and got the best outside centre he could (albeit he was also a Rolls Royce of a FB). Knowing full well that that gap was going to be fought for.

Payne gave his best in both positions, for Ireland and Ulster, and having retired and stayed on and has been pivotal in turning Ulster's fortunes round. Our defense is unrecognisable from Les Kiss/Jono Gibbes-era headless running around, flapping. He has given a massive boost to Ulster and Irish rugby, and is still contributing tonnes.

Dubinusa

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

More NZ born players than Munster born players in the starting team.

I find that a bit disheartening to be honest.

It's the rules though. These lads moved continents to pursue a career. They have earned it.

Rugbymad2020

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's the rules though. These lads moved continents to pursue a career. They have earned it.

But they have only moved continents as they weren’t good enough for the country.people don’t like to admit that but that’s the facts.

lawrencesummers

Rugbymad2020 wrote: »

But they have only moved continents as they weren’t good enough for the country.people don’t like to admit that but that’s the facts.

It’s not that clear cut.

A decision was made on an player at a younger age that there were better options ahead of them. It happens all the time.

Tadgh Beirne, Andrew Conway, Ultan Dillane, Chris Farrell have all the same story to tell, moving away from their ‘base’ to reach their potential.

Connacht had signed Sevu Reese and when they choose to cancel the deal he got capped by NZ. He could easily be on his way to Irish residency at this stage if that hadn’t happened. I’m sure Aki would have been an all black by now if he put in those performances in Super Rugby.

Some players need that move outside of their comfort zone, that backs to the wall now or never motivation for them to thrive and get an opportunity.

Yeah_Right

theVersatile wrote: »

15. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 30 caps
14. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
13. Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 10 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 45 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) uncapped
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 93 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 2 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 100 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 3 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 55 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 69 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 4 caps

Replacements

16. Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 3 caps
17. Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 11 caps
19. Quinn Roux (Connacht/Galwegians) 12 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 83 caps
22. Billy Burns (UIster) uncapped
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 84 caps

How come some of the overseas born players don't have an AIL club mentioned and some do? I remember reading an article about Lowe joining some lower tier club in "non-traditional" rugby neighbourhood in Dublin. I think it was Clondalkin. Why wouldn't that club be next to his name? I know its a trivial thing.

errlloyd

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How come some of the overseas born players don't have an AIL club mentioned and some do? I remember reading an article about Lowe joining some lower tier club in "non-traditional" rugby neighbourhood in Dublin. I think it was Clondalkin. Why wouldn't that club be next to his name? I know its a trivial thing.

Coolmine I think.

Edit: Nope Clondalkin, you were totally right.

Squidgy Black

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How come some of the overseas born players don't have an AIL club mentioned and some do? I remember reading an article about Lowe joining some lower tier club in "non-traditional" rugby neighbourhood in Dublin. I think it was Clondalkin. Why wouldn't that club be next to his name? I know its a trivial thing.

Could be wrong but I think it could be a case that he's not a registered player with Clondalkin but just affiliated with the clubs. Clondalkin wouldn't be AIL either they're a junior club.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Bodes very well, and is massively encouraging, albeit the "let's tale a snapshot" approach is lazy and ultimately paints a pretty misleading picture in places.