blanch152 wrote: » Ok, let's leave aside the sh!tstorm in the North. So tell me Francie then, are the people of Ireland (the South) more responsible than the people of France or Spain? Are we better than the people of Paris? Madrid? Are we better people than the Americans? If it is all down to the people as you say, and nothing to do with the FF/FG/Green government, or any other government (because if one does bad, then the other must be doing good), then you are putting forward some form of inherent superior nationalism as the reason.
franciebrady wrote: And if the Irish people hadn't complied the numbers would be right up to critical levels. Despite the confusion and row back in government the poster is correct, the people did the heavy lifting.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Minister says clothes not essentialhttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/clothes-are-not-essential-minister-damien-english-insists-essential-retail-list-is-not-confusing-39684604.htmlhttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/clothes-are-not-essential-minister-damien-english-defends-retail-restrictions-1.4395331?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fclothes-are-not-essential-minister-damien-english-defends-retail-restrictions-1.4395331 Supermarkets being allowed to sell clothes when smaller retailers are closed 'unfair' says Taoiseach (oh how the pub owners laughed and laughed and laughed)https://www.irishpost.com/news/micheal-martin-defends-ban-on-sale-of-baby-clothes-and-other-non-essential-items-196509 Gardaí enforcing rules against selling baby clothes and other non-essential items (socks included)https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40073102.html I believe there was much discussion across the media and here on boards about this whole I can walk into a shop and buy a scented candle but not a pair of socks debacle less than a fortnight ago. Can't believe you missed it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » We are in an enforced level 5 lockdown. The people have accepted whatever they have been asked to do. Pointing fingers at others is pointless and a wafer thin excuse to attack your boogeymen and women. It won't stop you but I am not engaging in your macabre politically motivated competition.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Oh Blanch, trying to make this some silly nationalist thing is beneath even you. Where did I say 'The Irish are better then..." - nowhere except in your imagination. If you are going to claim the current drop in numbers is due to a framework implemented by the govt then equally the rise in numbers was due to the lack of a framework - see how that works? We got the numbers down - they went back up and daily numbers broke all records - if govt is responsible for the first are they not also responsible for the second? Explain to me how closing a pub keeps infection out of a nursing home yet when the pubs were closed infections still got into nursing homes? Perhaps we should be looking at protecting the actual nursing homes? Where is the causal link between a cafe and a nursing home? Perhaps the issue is Builders suppliers? - they are open and there are cases in nursing homes ergo buying nuts and bolts is the problem. Protect economic activity is a great buzz word - unless your work is in an area that's shut down in which case tough. See, that's the thing isn't it - some economic activity is protected (greyhound/horse racing are not only still going on, they are getting increased money from the government) but other rather important in terms of providing employment economic activity is going to the wall. Seems to be lack of joined up thinking... again.
Solutionking wrote: » I would expect the government used a procurement system to buy the product. Tender process etc.
The HSE has said the “extreme urgency arising from the pandemic" led to it paying more than €9.1m to the company that supplied it with millions of bottles of potentially dangerous hand sanitiser without a formal tender process.
blanch152 wrote: » In that case, how do you explain the much higher numbers in Northern Ireland? The only difference I can see between North and South from that perspective is the relative performance of the two governments. You are the one that is putting it down to people doing or not doing the heavy lifting. If I accept your view of the world then some of the following questions must be answered in the affirmative. Are people from Northern Ireland less responsible? Are they too lazy to do the heavy lifting? Are they too selfish to consider their neighbour? As the numbers are higher in nationalist areas, is that a peculiarly Northern Irish nationalist issue? I mean, I am told all the time by posters on here that everyone on this island is Irish and are the same. However, I am not going to blame the people of Northern Ireland for not doing the heavy lifting and making their numbers worse. I am going to give credit where it is due to our own government for managing the crisis much better than the government in the North.
blanch152 wrote: The virus can only get out of control if ordinary people and ordinary businesses are reckless and careless and don't take personal responsibility for what they do. The Government can't sit outside the Bridge House Hotel and count the number of people going in together. Neither can they be everywhere at everytime for every time a doorbell rings to check how many people are going into a house. You would need 300,000 gardai to monitor all that. So it all comes down to personal responsibility. We know that there are around 25% of the population who have a Trump/Johnson/Brexit attitude to everything but the rest of us have to be responsible even when they won't.
Solutionking wrote: » Yes I can buy socks, actually I have no problems buying anything and personally I have been in level 5 lockdown since Feb. Can I ask, why can't you buy socks?
“Socks come under clothes, Miriam. Clothes are not essential,” the Minister of State for Employment Affairs and Retail Businesses said while speaking on Prime Time after the RTÉ presenter branded it “a bit mad”.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And if the Irish people hadn't complied the numbers would be right up to critical levels. Despite the confusion and row back in government the poster is correct, the people did the heavy lifting.
smurgen wrote: » I'm sure those shrieking at government spending yesterday will be outraged at this. More money down the swanny.https://twitter.com/businessposthq/status/1326138800242905088?s=19
Bannasidhe wrote: » Let's ignore the govts refusal to go to Lv 5 when NPHET advised them to shall we? NPHET are are the one's formulating the guidelines -the Govt is implementing (some) of those guidelines in a hodge podge, contradictory, unclear, and mixed message way. Tell me - can we buy socks yet? What the govt did not do was prepare for the second wave - despite the possibility of it happening being well flagged. They got caught with their pants down. So no - they do not deserve credit for reacting to a crises long after they had been warned it was imminent. 1st Septhttps://globalhealth.ie/the-case-for-a-fortress-ireland-as-second-wave-eases-closer/ 11th Septhttps://www.newstalk.com/news/ireland-well-second-wave-covid-19-1074539 19th Septhttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/prof-sam-mcconkey-this-is-the-beginning-of-the-second-covid-19-wave-in-ireland-1.4358495 IF they had been proactive then absolutely, I would give them credit. Do you not think the credit goes to the people living in Ireland - not all of whom are Irish by the way? Do you not think that a population that - with a few loud exceptions - abide by the guidelines even when there was no legal sanctions for failing to do so deserve some credit? Gosh. So much for being in this together. Apparently the numbers are falling because govt issued leaflets and closed some (but not all) businesses and has nothing to do with the people.
Solutionking wrote: » According to the post the only reason the numbers are dropping is because of the Irish people, if that was the case then the government should never had to go from Level 3 to Level 5.
Cluedo Monopoly wrote: » https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-ireland-faces-icu-bed-crisis-warns-mary-favier-1.4384430 It's only November and we are struggling. Sure levels stay at Level 5 for months so. We can ignore cancer screening and coronary care too because those problems have gone away.
Bishop of hope wrote: » Tbf the guidelines were implemented after much deliberation of the medical advice from NPHET. Advice that was scoffed at by the govt and many others two weeks earlier, even criticised by them. I would have thought the restrictions were very severe myself at level 5 and they have caused hardship to many, but they seem to be working well. I'm not sure the govt can claim the qudos on it though.
Solutionking wrote: » That's not really the truth is it now?
Solutionking wrote: » Are you saying the Irish people would have reduced the numbers without the guidelines from the government?
Brendan Bendar wrote: » Nothing personal, but I’d have to say that that post is the most ill thought contribution I have read in a long time.
blanch152 wrote: » The government has created the framework to allow those things to happen. Trump didn't do it in the USA, Johnson didn't do it in England, Macron didn't do it in France, SF/DUP didn't do it in Northern Ireland, hence the higher case rates in those countries. Irish people are not better than others just because, that is a myth. We have had better outcomes in relation to Covid because the government have weighed the medical advice and acted appropriately. Look at the list you made - many of the things you listed are incompatible and/or counter-productive. You say the hospitality industry is on its knees but outbreaks in nursing homes again. In order to curb the number of deaths in nursing homes (which incidentally are at lower rates in this country than in our neighbours), the hospitality industry had to be curbed. The fact is there is a pandemic involving a highly infectious disease. People will die no matter what we do. Managing the situation so that our hospitals aren't overwhelmed but at the same time some level of economic activity continues is a precarious balancing act. The people on their own don't decide that, it is the government that puts the framework in place to allow it to happen.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Nothing personal, but scoffing is not a rebuttal.
Bannasidhe wrote: » No. I credit the people living in Ireland who have managed it despite the govt. Sanitizer in schools etc that doesn't work. Track and Trace imploding. Outbreaks in Nursing homes again. Hospitality industry on it's knees. No mortgage breaks for those whose jobs are gone. HCW's on their knees with exhaustion. Don't get me wrong - Ireland is doing well in comparison to many other countries but the credit belong to the people taking the hits, to the hcw's risking their lives, and to those who have cop-on and consideration enough to personally take the steps to protect others.
