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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Buer

Sigh. That's a depressing team if true. I'll be very interested to see what Wales go with in comparison.

Home to a struggling Welsh team in a nothing tournament. This is an opportunity to see what certain players bring to the table. Lads like Healy and POM have no business starting this match.

P.Walnuts

Sorry if been discussed, but what's the story with Furlong? Any return date?

molloyjh

I think a lot depends on what we want to get out of the game. There are more considerations other than just development. We have a new system that still needs bedding in. Theres the people management side of letting guys get back on the horse after a disappointing end to the 6Ns. And even within the development consideration, do you throw a whole load of young lads in together to play the new system or do you drip feed them?

Injuries aren't helping either. Missing Furlong, Baird, Carbery and Ringrose will have knock on effects elsewhere. Plus, when was Thornley last right in his predictions anyway?

[Deleted User]

Aki injured?

Paul Smeenus

molloyjh wrote: »

I think a lot depends on what we want to get out of the game. There are more considerations other than just development. We have a new system that still needs bedding in. Theres the people management side of letting guys get back on the horse after a disappointing end to the 6Ns. And even within the development consideration, do you throw a whole load of young lads in together to play the new system or do you drip feed them?

Injuries aren't helping either. Missing Furlong, Baird, Carbery and Ringrose will have knock on effects elsewhere. Plus, when was Thornley last right in his predictions anyway?

Yes, we always suffer terrible knock on effects when Baird can't tog out.

awec

Carbery is injured more than he's fit, not sure he really counts as a loss either.

kingofthekong

Interesting to see what happens at outhalf in the next year or 2

Sexton has been undeniably Irelands first choice since midway through the 2011 worldcup , thats nearly a decade as easily the best outhalf in the country which is incredible,

However now he's in the twilight of his career he potentially has one more year as irelands first choice and then a couple more at Leinster,

I'm interested to see out of Harry Byrne, Ross Byrne, Ben Healy and Carbery who will rise to the top and grab the jersey,

I think Burns or Carty are only really a fill in until one of the above is ready I dont think they are likely to hold it for very long,

Its unlikely any of the above will have the jersey dominance Sexton has had,

Both battles for the 10 jersey begin at their provinces between Carberry and Healy and H Byrne and Ross Byrne,

Who knows with injuries, form and development who will be no.1

theVersatile

15. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 30 caps
14. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
13. Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 10 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 45 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) uncapped
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 93 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 2 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 100 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 3 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 55 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 69 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 4 caps

Replacements

16. Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 3 caps
17. Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 11 caps
19. Quinn Roux (Connacht/Galwegians) 12 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 83 caps
22. Billy Burns (UIster) uncapped
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 84 caps

kingofthekong

theVersatile wrote: »

15. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 30 caps
14. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
13. Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 10 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 45 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) uncapped
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 93 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 2 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 100 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 3 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 55 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 69 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 4 caps

Replacements

16. Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 3 caps
17. Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 11 caps
19. Quinn Roux (Connacht/Galwegians) 12 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 83 caps
22. Billy Burns (UIster) uncapped
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 84 caps

Stander surely picked up a knock

kingofthekong

With Baird and Ringrose and leavy to recover from Injury or come into the team and Jimmy o'brien looking good at FB for Leinster we could have an all Ireland team of only leinster players... soon,

Somehow I dont see the management picking it but were not far off with 11/15 being leinster as it stands

Burkie1203

kingofthekong wrote: »

Stander surely picked up a knock

Or maybe he is just rested. Like you know to try other players.

Ireland will win by 10-15 on Friday night.

kingofthekong

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Or maybe he is just rested. Like you know to try other players.

Ireland will win by 10-15 on Friday night.

Try other players by picking O'mahony...ye ok, I reckon he'd still be on the bench even if they were trying a new back row combination

Burkie1203

kingofthekong wrote: »

Try other players by picking O'mahony...ye ok, I reckon he'd still be on the bench even if they were trying a new back row combination

Kelleher Doris Porter in the pack

A new starting 9

Lowe and Keenan in back three

Don't forget it's 4 games in 4 weekends followed by Europe. Maybe there is a hint of minutes being managed here so the top guys aren't flogged

Woud Connacht rather Aki sits this one and Georgia out but is available for Europe?

Likewise Munster with Stander etc

For the record I don't think POM should be near the 23 but I'm not going to lose sleep over it either when there is plenty of players getting proper opportunities now

amadangomor

kingofthekong wrote: »

Try other players by picking O'mahony...ye ok, I reckon he'd still be on the bench even if they were trying a new back row combination

Ridiculous selection in what is a nothing game. Give the gametime to someone up and coming.

Is Farrell trying to give POM a chance to play himself into form? He shouldn't be in the squad let alone starting going on his form for ages now.

thomond2006

I don't know what to make of it. Any news on knocks/injuries in camp?

The POM comments by some on here are completely overboard but his spot in the starting XV is a surprise.

Earls in the 23 and no sign of Conway is strange as well. At this stage Conway offers more cover than Earls does.

Some of the selections can be seen as development based which is all well and good while others are the exact opposite.

theVersatile

POM deserves to have one more crack of the whip. He was better than Doris when he came on v France and had that offload v Italy. If he can bring that x-factor to this game and on, then let's see it.

At the same time, if he doesn't perform, I can see it being his last chance saloon.

amadangomor

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't know what to make of it. Any news on knocks/injuries in camp?

The POM comments by some on here are completely overboard but his spot in the starting XV is a surprise.

Earls in the 23 and no sign of Conway is strange as well.

It is ridiculous because Farrell should be using valuable gametime to bring on younger players, especially in a meaningless game.

What's to be gained by playing POM in this game?

He is a known quantity and hasn't been playing well for a good while now. Other countries are miles ahead of us in terms of getting young lads up to speed because we go with the conservative option too many times. Plenty of youth in a setup adds more energy.

yerrahbah

Has a sense of being a mix and match type team

Giving minutes to some people who haven't played much, giving a few debuts while keeping a few older heads in the team

Great to see Earls back fit

Niallof9

yeah some utterly daft selections there. On the one hand its great to see the new caps and RK while depressing to see the usual's. No point whatsoever

Funny how some said on here Lowe wouldn't get in.

Straight into the team as many of us predicted.

aloooof

amadangomor wrote: »

It is ridiculous because Farrell should be using valuable gametime to bring on younger players, especially in a meaningless game.

What's to be gained by playing POM in this game?

He is a known quantity and hasn't been playing well for a good while now. Other countries are miles ahead of us in terms of getting young lads up to speed because we go with the conservative option too many times. Plenty of youth in a setup adds more energy.

It also introduces a lack of experience and leadership. I wouldn't have him in the starting 15 either, but as Burkie said, I'm not going to lose sleep over it when there is plenty of players getting proper opportunities now.

aloooof

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Kelleher Doris Porter in the pack

A new starting 9

Lowe and Keenan in back three

Add in that 6 of the bench have 12 caps or less.

It does seems to be a slightly odd selection but it looks to me likes it's trying to achieve a blend of youth and experience while giving other players a rest. I don't expect to see near the same team next week, for example.

PMC83

Always a big fan of Madigan in his Leinster days but based off his play with Ulster last night his international days must be behind him. Nothing sticking for him these days unfortunately.

bilston

Debut for Lowe, probable debut for Burns and a first start for JGP.

So given the squad selected it is about as good as could have been expected.

sydthebeat

While i was originally disappointed to see Thornleys teams.... im not actually too downhearted by that line up... its a good mix of experience and inexperience

9 of the 23 have less than 5 caps.. which is a huge signal of new blood and a new direction (this will be farrells 6th game in charge)

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

yeah some utterly daft selections there. On the one hand its great to see the new caps and RK while depressing to see the usual's. No point whatsoever

Funny how some said on here Lowe wouldn't get in.

Straight into the team as many of us predicted.

Didn't you also make the prediction (and were disappointed) that Will Connors would be an automatic starter?

bilston

PMC83 wrote: »

Always a big fan of Madigan in his Leinster days but based off his play with Ulster last night his international days must be behind him. Nothing sticking for him these days unfortunately.

Burns is well ahead of him at Ulster at this stage. He's still a decent Pro 14 option and but I would imagine his Ireland days are well behind him now.

ionadnapóca

sydthebeat wrote: »

While i was originally disappointed to see Thornleys teams.... im not actually too downhearted by that line up... its a good mix of experience and inexperience

9 of the 23 have less than 5 caps.. which is a huge signal of new blood and a new direct (this will be farrells 6th game in charge)

We gain nothing in the medium and long term selecting Sexton, Healy, Murray, Earls and O ‘Mahony in this Wales game.
Stockdale at FB should have been shelved after Paris debacle.
Disappointed at how short term his selections are especially considering that this is a micky mouse tournament with no fans.

Comparing it to what Rennie has been doing with Australia.
4 games for Australia. All v NZ and 10 debuts. 7 debutants started in the XV!

Farrell 6 games. 8 debuts. 4 debutants in the XV.

Queensland No.8 Harry Wilson 20 / Caelen Dorris 22
QLD back-rower Fraser McReight 21 / Will Connors 24
NSW back-row Lachie Swinton 23 / -
Brumbies winger Tom Wright 23 / Hugo Keenan 24
Fiji Filipo Daugunu 25 / NZ Lowe 28
Samoa/NZ QLD 12 Hunter Paisami 22 / -
NZ NSW 12 Irae Simone 25 / -
NZ/Aus QLD 10 Noah Lolesio 20 / Eng Burns 26
QLD 9 Tate McDermott 22 / NZ Park 28
NSW Prop Angus Bell 20 / Ed Byrne 27
Hooker - / Ronan Kelleher 22

Average age Australia 22.1
Average age Ireland 25.1

ionadnapóca

bilston wrote: »

Burns is well ahead of him at Ulster at this stage. He's still a decent Pro 14 option and but I would imagine his Ireland days are well behind him now.

I must say i don't rate Burns at this level.
I wouldn't go with Madigan either (he needs to play allot more rugby)

But why is Carty not involved?
Id even cap young Byrne v Georgia.

thomond2006

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I must say i don't rate Burns at this level.
I wouldn't go with Madigan either (he needs to play allot more rugby)

But why is Carty not involved?
Id even cap young Byrne v Georgia.

You don't rate a player at this level who is uncapped at this level?

molloyjh

I have a sneaking suspicion we'll see the logic in some of these calls by the end of the month. Theres a lot to juggle here. A new system they still need to bed in, giving players minutes in that system, blooding new talent, getting back on the horse, preparing for a trip to Twickenham (where we simply can't get badly beaten again), balance minutes overall given 6 Tests & 2 HEC games in 9 weeks and also a small matter of actually winning the game.

I might have made a few tweaks myself, like starting Ed Byrne and having Conan & Conway on the bench, but overall I've no real complaints with it. Its 1 game. So far we've seen Farrell isn't afraid to completely change up how we play and also isnt afraid to blood new guys. Ed Byrne, Kelleher, Doris, Connors, Deegan, JGP, Keenan, Lowe, and Burns have (or will have) all featured for the first time under him. Guys like Baird and Daly could have but for injury and likely still will. Thats a reasonable number of new caps in what will be 9 games by the end of the month.