Solutionking wrote: » Would you not consider the drop in number of Covid not a win for the government?
Bannasidhe wrote: » No. I credit the people living in Ireland who have managed it despite the govt. Sanitizer in schools etc that doesn't work. Track and Trace imploding. Outbreaks in Nursing homes again. Hospitality industry on it's knees. No mortgage breaks for those whose jobs are gone. HCW's on their knees with exhaustion. Don't get me wrong - Ireland is doing well in comparison to many other countries but the credit belong to the people taking the hits, to the hcw's risking their lives, and to those who have cop-on and consideration enough to personally take the steps to protect others.
2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November. “Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike. “We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.
Cluedo Monopoly wrote: » You forgot Leo leaking the Level 5 letter and the Covid Plan being discredited after an hour with that embarassing press conference, level 2.5 and a rewrite. The biggest mistake the government made was not to increase capacity over the summer, especially in ICU. I talked to a consultant in UCHG ICU at the end of August and she was livid over this. The INMO warned the government in November 2019 and every other winter but it was ignored by successive FFG governments.https://inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13549
Brendan Bendar wrote: » Nothing personal, but I’d have to say that that post is the most ill thought contribution I have read in a long time.
joeguevara wrote: » How does one simply increase capacity of the ICU and has our ICU been overrun at any stage?
Covid-19: Ireland faces ICU bed crisis, warns Mary Favier According to a 2019 HSE report there were 255 Critical Care beds in the system but a HSE daily report on October 16th said there were currently just 36 ICU beds available as the numbers hospitalised with Covid 19 continues to rise.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Nothing personal, but scoffing is not a rebuttal.
blanch152 wrote: » The government has created the framework to allow those things to happen. Trump didn't do it in the USA, Johnson didn't do it in England, Macron didn't do it in France, SF/DUP didn't do it in Northern Ireland, hence the higher case rates in those countries. Irish people are not better than others just because, that is a myth. We have had better outcomes in relation to Covid because the government have weighed the medical advice and acted appropriately. Look at the list you made - many of the things you listed are incompatible and/or counter-productive. You say the hospitality industry is on its knees but outbreaks in nursing homes again. In order to curb the number of deaths in nursing homes (which incidentally are at lower rates in this country than in our neighbours), the hospitality industry had to be curbed. The fact is there is a pandemic involving a highly infectious disease. People will die no matter what we do. Managing the situation so that our hospitals aren't overwhelmed but at the same time some level of economic activity continues is a precarious balancing act. The people on their own don't decide that, it is the government that puts the framework in place to allow it to happen.
Solutionking wrote: » Are you saying the Irish people would have reduced the numbers without the guidelines from the government?
Solutionking wrote: » That's not really the truth is it now?
Bishop of hope wrote: » Tbf the guidelines were implemented after much deliberation of the medical advice from NPHET. Advice that was scoffed at by the govt and many others two weeks earlier, even criticised by them. I would have thought the restrictions were very severe myself at level 5 and they have caused hardship to many, but they seem to be working well. I'm not sure the govt can claim the qudos on it though.
Solutionking wrote: » According to the post the only reason the numbers are dropping is because of the Irish people, if that was the case then the government should never had to go from Level 3 to Level 5.
Cluedo Monopoly wrote: » https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-ireland-faces-icu-bed-crisis-warns-mary-favier-1.4384430 It's only November and we are struggling. Sure levels stay at Level 5 for months so. We can ignore cancer screening and coronary care too because those problems have gone away.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Let's ignore the govts refusal to go to Lv 5 when NPHET advised them to shall we? NPHET are are the one's formulating the guidelines -the Govt is implementing (some) of those guidelines in a hodge podge, contradictory, unclear, and mixed message way. Tell me - can we buy socks yet? What the govt did not do was prepare for the second wave - despite the possibility of it happening being well flagged. They got caught with their pants down. So no - they do not deserve credit for reacting to a crises long after they had been warned it was imminent. 1st Septhttps://globalhealth.ie/the-case-for-a-fortress-ireland-as-second-wave-eases-closer/ 11th Septhttps://www.newstalk.com/news/ireland-well-second-wave-covid-19-1074539 19th Septhttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/prof-sam-mcconkey-this-is-the-beginning-of-the-second-covid-19-wave-in-ireland-1.4358495 IF they had been proactive then absolutely, I would give them credit. Do you not think the credit goes to the people living in Ireland - not all of whom are Irish by the way? Do you not think that a population that - with a few loud exceptions - abide by the guidelines even when there was no legal sanctions for failing to do so deserve some credit? Gosh. So much for being in this together. Apparently the numbers are falling because govt issued leaflets and closed some (but not all) businesses and has nothing to do with the people.
Solutionking wrote: » Yes I can buy socks, actually I have no problems buying anything and personally I have been in level 5 lockdown since Feb. Can I ask, why can't you buy socks?
smurgen wrote: » I'm sure those shrieking at government spending yesterday will be outraged at this. More money down the swanny.https://twitter.com/businessposthq/status/1326138800242905088?s=19
FrancieBrady wrote: » And if the Irish people hadn't complied the numbers would be right up to critical levels. Despite the confusion and row back in government the poster is correct, the people did the heavy lifting.
“Socks come under clothes, Miriam. Clothes are not essential,” the Minister of State for Employment Affairs and Retail Businesses said while speaking on Prime Time after the RTÉ presenter branded it “a bit mad”.
blanch152 wrote: » In that case, how do you explain the much higher numbers in Northern Ireland? The only difference I can see between North and South from that perspective is the relative performance of the two governments. You are the one that is putting it down to people doing or not doing the heavy lifting. If I accept your view of the world then some of the following questions must be answered in the affirmative. Are people from Northern Ireland less responsible? Are they too lazy to do the heavy lifting? Are they too selfish to consider their neighbour? As the numbers are higher in nationalist areas, is that a peculiarly Northern Irish nationalist issue? I mean, I am told all the time by posters on here that everyone on this island is Irish and are the same. However, I am not going to blame the people of Northern Ireland for not doing the heavy lifting and making their numbers worse. I am going to give credit where it is due to our own government for managing the crisis much better than the government in the North.
