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Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

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Poor_old_gill

dobman88 wrote: »

:pac: dont poke the bear. This is your hill to die on gill?

Gladly.
To say that he probably got the tactics wrong can only mean that the poster either didn’t watch the game or doesn’t know the meaning of the word probably

dobman88

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Gladly.
To say that he probably got the tactics wrong can only mean that the poster either didn’t watch the game or doesn’t know the meaning of the word probably

Ah I know. Dont let it bother you this much gill, it's only a game of ball. Get out for a walk or something to clear the head.

wonga77

Are Geaney and JOD both injured? We had very little on the bench to give us a lift coming in.
I think keane has made some strange decisions over his time in charge. Remember last year, James O Doneghue wasn't even on the panel for the first game against Dublin and played a part in the second game, il never figure that move out.
I don't think the county board will make any changes but there must be serious questions asked of him. No problem losing to a good team, especially when you play well, but we were very poor yesterday, set up was all wrong and the warning signs were there from very early on.

What are the chances the county board reverse their decision and try to get the club football going again before xmas or was that a nationwide decision?

Kerrydude1981

wonga77 wrote: »

Are Geaney and JOD both injured? We had very little on the bench to give us a lift coming in.
I think keane has made some strange decisions over his time in charge. Remember last year, James O Doneghue wasn't even on the panel for the first game against Dublin and played a part in the second game, il never figure that move out.
I don't think the county board will make any changes but there must be serious questions asked of him. No problem losing to a good team, especially when you play well, but we were very poor yesterday, set up was all wrong and the warning signs were there from very early on.

What are the chances the county board reverse their decision and try to get the club football going again before xmas or was that a nationwide decision?

James O Donoghue didnt pull up any trees for Legion so maybe he carried that form into Kerry training, Geaney must be injured

Bass Reeves

the descent wrote: »

I wouldn't be blaming Moran for the loss. He made mistakes in the last few mins of extra time but he won a serious amount of ball during the game, and he won at least one free that got us a score from carrying into contact which many have criticised him over. I agree he shouldn't be shooting, particularly when he has forwards he can pass to, but to blame him for the loss or saying he's not inter-county standard is ridiculous imo.

Clifford missed 2 very kickable frees, didn't take that mark which should have been another score. There were numerous balls spilled in contact or from poor passing. Granted the conditions were awful and that can't be dismissed, but Kerry had plenty chances to win the game and each time they passed it up. A lot of players that looked in great form ended up having poor games. It's a tough one to puzzle out.

I also think it's premature to call for Keane's head at this stage. Probably got the tactics wrong yesterday but Kerry looked great in the previous two games and anything can happen in a one-off. Disappointing, but well done to Cork - they were great. And it's good for Kerry going forward to have competition in Munster.

TBH you would have to be critical of Moran. When he came back on farm in extra time he ran into trouble once and got turned, kicked a free to the opposition and his last action was criminal. No matter how much other good work he did those three actions stopped us from pushing on and winning the game. If it was a one off grand but over the last two years his decision making late in games has been very poor, I put it down to mental fatigue late in the game and subbing by him should be a consideration. I taught the black card he got was harsh but his leg was a bit forwsrd. However Cork got away with what was a pull down challenge just 3-5 minutes later and ref gave a yellow card. Having said that we had the winning if it but failed to adapt our game.

In wet greasy conditions possession and scores are critical. We gave away possession easily and failed to take critical scores. O'Bealoigh goal chance should have been popped to the runner beside him to hand tap into the goal. Clifford's two frees and even the mark the incident I think he went for goal instead of tapping over the bar. I could never understand the talk over the last few weeks that a wet greasy ball suits more skillful players.

Officer999

Haven’t seen it anywhere but thought Shane Ryan should have come out and caught that ball. It was a goalies ball all day long. Help your full back. At least fist it away. Have Kerry ever replaced Diarmuid Murphy?

Kevhog1988

What was Tommy Walsh doing playing at full back?. Not sure how he went in club championship but id of always thought he would be ideal to have at full forward for advanced marks?. As a neutral i thought cork were well up for that game. It was a complete dogfight and they had the better stomach for it. A pity to see Kerry out so early.

dobman88

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

What was Tommy Walsh doing playing at full back?. Not sure how he went in club championship but id of always thought he would be ideal to have at full forward for advanced marks?. As a neutral i thought cork were well up for that game. It was a complete dogfight and they had the better stomach for it. A pity to see Kerry out so early.

Fairly clear they thought he could mark the AFL man. A crazy decision, trust your defenders to defend who are used to being in such positions. That's the only reason i can think of for Tommy to be back there marking that Cork chap.

Speakerboxx

dobman88 wrote: »

that Cork chap.

Mark Keane.

cms88

No matter how well Moran plays there's always the rick of him doing something stupid at the worst possible time. Last year against Dublin, also sometimes forgotten he did something imiler to yesterday against Monaghan in 2018 as well.

It's something that's always been part of his game. I remember about 10 years ago it was tried in the league that like Rugby the ball had to go dead before the game could finish. I can't remember who it was against but it was [in Tralee, into injury but time wasn't up, Kerry have a free arond the full back line Moran turns around and kicks it out over the end line and gives away a 45! From what i remember it didn't have an impact on the result, but it shows he's always had a tendency to have rush of blood to the head moments.

dobman88

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Mark Keane.

Yeah. The Cork chap.

[Deleted User]

As Cork were passing the ball around in the last seconds of the extra time trying to find an opening (it seemed to go on for ever) a Cork player played the ball across the field in what looked like a terrible ball that would surely give away possession and essentially win the game for Kerry.

On the screen there seems to be no Cork player, only a Kerry player in the vicinity to where the pass was going, but in comes this Cork guy at full tilt to get to the ball first, while the Kerry player is going at lackluster pace to get to the ball.

That there was a perfect summation of this game, Kerry had one eye if not two on an All Ireland final over a month away instead of what was on the field in front of them last night.

Remember back in the 2000s then Kerry would lose to Tyrone in finals or Semi Finals and then come back the next year and hammer Mayo ?
The story after hammering Mayo in the final was always that the hurt of losing the year before and the hunger to win back was what drove them all winter and all summer.

Now look at this team.
They lost two national finals in 2019, one which there were favorites to win, the other which they were leading in the dying minutes of.
One would have though that they would come back in 2020 with the same hurt and hunger that their predecessors had in the 2000s
And it looked like that during the league, they played a strong team, they topped the table (no one know what would have happened in a League Final scenario if it had occurred but Kerry were certainly one of the top teams)
And even after the break they came back strong v Monaghan and Donegal
But then this happens
Where was the hunger, where was the hurt, where was the sense of putting things right ?

This team and management have to have a good hard look at themselves before 2021 and figure out how much they really want it.

conor05

Up to the hurlers now to put some pride back in the Kerry jersey.

Hopefully they can make the Joe McDonagh final on All Ireland hurling final day.

Give us something to cheer about over the winter!!

Same As

Just going through the ages of the panel yesterday (open to correction):

Starting 15:

Shane Ryan 24 (1996)

Tom O Sullivan 24 (1996)
Tadhg Morley 27 (1993)
Jason Foley 22 (1998)

Paul Murphy 29 (1991)
Peter Crowley 30 (1990)
Gavin White 23 (1997)

David Moran 32 (1988)
Diarmuid O Connor 21 (1999)

Ronan Buckley 24 (1996)
Sean O Shea 22 (1998)
Brian O Beaglaoich 24 (1996)

Tony Brosnan 24 (1996)
David Clifford 21 (1999)
Dara Moynihan 22 (1998)

Subs:
Jack Barry 26 (1994)
Stephen O Brien 29 (1991)
Killian Spillane 24 (1996)
Jack Sherwood 29 (1991)
Gavin Crowley 26 (1994)
Graham O Sullivan 22 (1998)
Tommy Walsh 32 (1988)
Paudie Clifford 24 (1996)

Unused:
Brian Kelly 30 (1990)
Shane Enright 32 (1988)
Micheal Burns 24 (1996)

Starting Team Average Age: 24.6
Used Average Age: 25.3
Panel Average Age: 25.7

The majority of these lads are still young enough to learn, improve and deliver on the biggest stage. A bit more tactical guile required though.

the descent

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Probably got the tactics wrong? Probably?

Jesus Christ! Did you watch the game?

Pick one word out of a post and only respond to that - great way to hold a discussion.

In any case, I don't think tactics were the main issue yesterday. It was more complacency - they expected to turn Cork over and were caught by a team that wanted it more.

This loss will be good for the team in the long run imo.

dobman88

the descent wrote: »

This loss will be good for the team in the long run imo.

How many times will we have to say that about this team? Hammered by Mayo in a league final, it will stand to them. Couldnt put away 14 man Dublin while leading in injury time, they will learn. Well beaten in the replay, they will come on for it. Beaten by a fairly poor Tyrone outfit in the league, they'll learn. Now we are saying the same after losing to a Cork team playing division 3 football.

At some point they're going to have to put all this learning into practice. Moran at 32 should have been the calm in a sea of madness yesterday. Instead he has a wild swing to nothing. Was it a shot? Was it a pass? Who knows. But it's a mistake you wouldnt see a top player make.

Bass Reeves

dobman88 wrote: »

How many times will we have to say that about this team? Hammered by Mayo in a league final, it will stand to them. Couldnt put away 14 man Dublin while leading in injury time, they will learn. Well beaten in the replay, they will come on for it. Beaten by a fairly poor Tyrone outfit in the league, they'll learn. Now we are saying the same after losing to a Cork team playing division 3 football.

At some point they're going to have to put all this learning into practice. Moran at 32 should have been the calm in a sea of madness yesterday. Instead he has a wild swing to nothing. Was it a shot? Was it a pass? Who knows. But it's a mistake you wouldnt see a top player make.

I agree winning is a habit just like losing. As Mayo I not be happy with the excuse that they will learn. Ya disappointed with Moran giving silly turnovers for a player of his own experience is criminal. Having said that Cork are no Div 3 team. They are not far off Div 1 standard but not managing to show it normally. On there day they would beat most teams except Dublin

siblers

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree winning is a habit just like losing. As Mayo I not be happy with the excuse that they will learn. Ya disappointed with Moran giving silly turnovers for a player of his own experience is criminal. Having said that Cork are no Div 3 team. They are not far off Div 1 standard but not managing to show it normally. On there day they would beat most teams except Dublin

Ah I dunno if Cork are that good. They're better than a division 3 team and media should have shown more respect but Kerry should have won by 6 or 7 points yesterday. Cork played well and stuck to their plan but Kerry were beyond woeful yesterday. A lot of weaker teams would have beaten Kerry yesterday

Poor_old_gill

the descent wrote: »

Pick one word out of a post and only respond to that - great way to hold a discussion.

In any case, I don't think tactics were the main issue yesterday. It was more complacency - they expected to turn Cork over and were caught by a team that wanted it more.

This loss will be good for the team in the long run imo.

Cliched nonsense- winning games would be better for the team.

The tactics were horrendous yesterday, allied to the complacency and both fall at the door of the management

BENDYBINN

Nobody will say it on here but the golden boy Clifford lost it for Kerry yesterday.
Missed two simple frees and not calling the mark in front of goals was school boy error.

dobman88

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Nobody will say it on here but the golden boy Clifford lost it for Kerry yesterday.
Missed two simple frees and not calling the mark in front of goals was school boy error.

Since it's only rival fans that refer to him with the term golden boy in a derogatory sense, I'll assume you're not a Kerry fan and take what you say not seriously.

Yes he made a bad decision with the mark. The kicks were poor but he wasnt the only one, almost every player had some kind of poor shot or pass yesterday, Sean O Shea with the tap over free that sliced off his boot and bounced into the keepers hands is a prime example. To lay the loss solely on him is mental

kerryjack

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Nobody will say it on here but the golden boy Clifford lost it for Kerry yesterday.
Missed two simple frees and not calling the mark in front of goals was school boy error.

Ya he rocketed back down to earth yesterday, you got to take care of the simple stuff first, that's first thing you tell the U6 s.

Audioslaven

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Cliched nonsense- winning games would be better for the team.

The tactics were horrendous yesterday, allied to the complacency and both fall at the door of the management

Players have no responsibility for serving up a performance like that!! I am no fan of Keane but to lay everything at his door is ridiculous. A lot of your main guys were off yesterday and then they met a team who fought like a pack of dogs for a win. Cork wanted to bring this game down to a level where nothing is easy and make you work your balls off for a win in a similar fashion like Tyrone.

Poor_old_gill

Audioslaven wrote: »

Players have no responsibility for serving up a performance like that!! I am no fan of Keane but to lay everything at his door is ridiculous. A lot of your main guys were off yesterday and then they met a team who fought like a pack of dogs for a win. Cork wanted to bring this game down to a level where nothing is easy and make you work your balls off for a win in a similar fashion like Tyrone.

We decided to start the game with only 2 ‘scoring’ forwards & we had them dropping back inside their own half regularly.
A complete nonsense.

The players are definitely culpable aswell but the buck stops with Keane.
He got more or less everything wrong that he could get wrong

kerryjack

Audioslaven wrote: »

Players have no responsibility for serving up a performance like that!! I am no fan of Keane but to lay everything at his door is ridiculous. A lot of your main guys were off yesterday and then they met a team who fought like a pack of dogs for a win. Cork wanted to bring this game down to a level where nothing is easy and make you work your balls off for a win in a similar fashion like Tyrone.

Cork like Tyrone yesterday. I must have been watching a different game. The game I was watching looked timid enough affair.

the descent

dobman88 wrote: »

How many times will we have to say that about this team? Hammered by Mayo in a league final, it will stand to them. Couldnt put away 14 man Dublin while leading in injury time, they will learn. Well beaten in the replay, they will come on for it. Beaten by a fairly poor Tyrone outfit in the league, they'll learn. Now we are saying the same after losing to a Cork team playing division 3 football.

At some point they're going to have to put all this learning into practice. Moran at 32 should have been the calm in a sea of madness yesterday. Instead he has a wild swing to nothing. Was it a shot? Was it a pass? Who knows. But it's a mistake you wouldnt see a top player make.

Are you seriously going to slate the team for taking the 4 in a row champs to a replay last year? Not many were predicting they'd reach the final going into the championship and they did better in the drawn game than almost everyone expected. Dublin just about had the nous to take the game away from them.

Kerry won the league this year, beating Donegal and Monaghan well in the last few weeks. We had a lot of 5/10 performances yesterday that you wouldn't expect from fellas the way they had played recently. Clifford scored one ridiculous point but missed two easy frees and should have taken that mark. The shot he hit off the post was inches from being the goal of the season. Sean O'Shea missed a couple he would normally put over in his sleep. Gavin White was anonymous having coming in in red-hot form. Kerry looked clinical against Monaghan and Donegal but they didn't yesterday.

They're still a very young team. They will come good. I think they have the ability to beat Dublin, but they'll need to play a lot better than they did yesterday and for sure game management is one of the key lessons. Keane mentioned it in his post-match interview. I hope Keane stays on another year.

dobman88

the descent wrote: »

Are you seriously going to slate the team for taking the 4 in a row champs to a replay last year?

No, I went to that final in complete hope without expectation. My point was you said they will learn from yesterday when in reality they've already had plenty of games to learn from and enough lads plenty old enough to have the experience to control a game. For whatever reason they dont seem to have learned anything and we cant keep using that excuse as a pass for poor performances and results

siblers

If Kerry were ahead of 14 man Dublin in injury time this season, I very much doubt they'd do anything different than they did last year.

It looks to be part of their psychology to hold what they have. Someone needs to change their mentality

Rosita

dobman88 wrote: »

Since it's only rival fans that refer to him with the term golden boy in a derogatory sense, I'll assume you're not a Kerry fan and take what you say not seriously.

Yes he made a bad decision with the mark. The kicks were poor but he wasnt the only one, almost every player had some kind of poor shot or pass yesterday, Sean O Shea with the tap over free that sliced off his boot and bounced into the keepers hands is a prime example. To lay the loss solely on him is mental

Only problem is that there is no objection when David Moran's mistakes are pointed out or when it is implied he was the cause of the defeat.

dobman88

Rosita wrote: »

Only problem is that there is no objection when David Moran's mistakes are pointed out or when it is implied he was the cause of the defeat.

Because he has done it consistently in big games and has the experience or should have it, to know better. If Clifford is still there in 10 years making the same stupid mistakes, I'll say the same about him.