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US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Quin_Dub

Continuation thread from here

All existing rules still stand.

Everyone will want to be active in this thread over the next few days , but there will be zero tolerance for Forum rule breaches.

Keep it Sensible , Civil and Polite please.

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Francie Barrett

letowski wrote: »

While its good for the Democrats to enjoy getting their guy in the White House, they cannot over look the fact that they had many losses this week across America.

Leaving aside the presidential race which Biden one relatively narrowly, Trump made gains across many minority groups, especially in Democratic stronghold like Miami-Dade and the Rio Grande Valley. Youngstown in eastern Ohio was one by Trump, only 8 years ago Obama was winning there by +27 points. Biden made gains among the white male vote, but the GOP will back themselves to win that back in 2024 and potentially hold the Trump minority numbers with a less racist president.

In the senate races, the Democrats missed a massive opportunity to take control. Maybe it was the faulty polls again, but losing in Maine, Iowa and North Carolina was most disappointing. Questions must be asked about the decision to pump $200m into long shot senate races in Kentucky and South Carolina.

In the House, the GOP made huge gains leaving the Democrats with its slimmest majority in twenty years. Make no mistake, the House will be up for grabs in 2022, and the Dems will have to pull themselves together. The Dems did not even win one state legislator position this week either.

I think leadership at the top isn't working. The GOP will look to charter a course of holding the senate, winning the House in 2022 and go for the trifecta in 2024 against an 82 year old incumbent president (potentially). Fair enough, the GOP are too in an internal crisis with what direction they need to take in a post Trump era, but leaders at the top will have reason for optimism. As I've said, the Democratic party should enjoy today, but there needs to be a full review of where they are going as a political party in the US.

The Republicans lost the presidency, but held the senate and made gains in the house. For me, this election was more of a vote against Trump, rather than support for Biden, or the Democrats in general.

Privately, I think the Republicans will feel pretty good about this election. Trump made a balls over COVID, which undoubtedly cost them votes. COVID made a balls of the economy (unemployment went from record lows to 8% right now) which cost them more votes. It's incredible that in spite of everything, Trump came as close as he did to winning.

I think if Republicans get the right candidate next time, they can let the Democrats go down the "democratic socialist" route and they will be in a really good position for 2024. Of course, they may decide to double down on Trump, hopefully they won't be so stupid.

FatherTed

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The Republicans lost the presidency, but held the senate and made gains in the house. For me, this election was more of a vote against Trump, rather than support for Biden, or the Democrats in general.

Privately, I think the Republicans will feel pretty good about this election. Trump made a balls over COVID, which undoubtedly cost them votes. COVID made a balls of the economy (unemployment went from record lows to 8% right now) which cost them more votes. It's incredible that in spite of everything, Trump came as close as he did to winning.

I think if Republicans get the right candidate next time, they can let the Democrats go down the "democratic socialist" route and they will be in a really good position for 2024. Of course, they may decide to double down on Trump, hopefully they won't be so stupid.

Explain this “democratic socialist” you talk about and how Biden will implement democratic socialism.

CruelSummer

Five Eighth wrote: »

It’s a bit rich to describe millions of people who voted for Trump and GOP as ‘idiots’. My point is that they did, in fact, vote for Trump and they obviously did so for good reason i.e. someone who they believed respected their worldview and articulated their hopes and aspirations. The main point is not whether Trump did or did not actually believe what he was saying but that millions of natural Democrat voters believed him and rejected the Democrats. They shouldn’t be regarded as ‘idiots’ or ‘deplorables’ for doing so. I assume you read the previous posts on this issue.

I just came on here to post something in relation to Trump supporters.
Firstly delighted Biden and Harris have won, America & the World needs a more unifying message. Biden carried the Democrats over the line through being a centrist politician that shares many of the same views as moderate Republicans. Hope Harris keeps this unifying tone too, this is what the US needs and badly.
Our own politicians are falling over themselves congratulating Biden, fair enough. But they should be careful not to overplay their affiliations to the Democrats. Every 8 years on average, the power shifts between Democrat & Republican. Biden is in for 4 years. There is absolutely no guarantee they’ll get in for another four, especially with Covid, the economy and other issues to deal with. There are many Irish American Republicans also, they should try & maintain and build bridges with both sides.
The Democrats need to reflect on their base, strategy and way forward. They didn’t do as well as hoped in the Senate or House. If Sanders had gotten the Presidential nomination, I don’t think he would have defeated Trump. While well meaning, their overly PC brigade can be painful at times. They turned Covid into a political issue and I’ll be interested to see how they proceed from here on out. They need to keep the centre vote that Biden gained in crucial states and also unify moderate Trump supporters, who have genuine issues of discontent.
From afar in Ireland, it might look like Trump supporters are all right wing lunatics. This is not always the case. Middle America, and particularly in rural areas, have lost their voice & felt Trump was an avenue to get it back. So many towns I stayed in off the beaten track have stories of past booms, manufacturing plants, etc. Now they’re quiet, deserted and forgotten. While so many US jobs are overseas, including in Ireland. (I think in Ireland’s case many are EU headquarters while manufacturing jobs are gone to China mostly) They have a genuine grievance and felt Trump might give them a voice. Unfortunately he just gave himself a voice & used the divide + conquer strategy exceptionally.
Post Presidency, I think we haven’t seen the last of Trump on our airwaves. But I do hope the Biden / Harris Presidency tries a unifying approach...

Rjd2

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The Republicans lost the presidency, but held the senate and made gains in the house. For me, this election was more of a vote against Trump, rather than support for Biden, or the Democrats in general.

Privately, I think the Republicans will feel pretty good about this election. Trump made a balls over COVID, which undoubtedly cost them votes. COVID made a balls of the economy (unemployment went from record lows to 8% right now) which cost them more votes. It's incredible that in spite of everything, Trump came as close as he did to winning.

I think if Republicans get the right candidate next time, they can let the Democrats go down the "democratic socialist" route and they will be in a really good position for 2024. Of course, they may decide to double down on Trump, hopefully they won't be so stupid.

They haven't held the senate yet tbf.

2 races in Georgia will determine that in January.

Water John

Rjd2 wrote: »

They haven't held the senate yet tbf.

2 races in Georgia will determine that in January.

That will be some battle

ElisaAtWar

Probably a scratch golfer after the last 4 years improving his game.

sdanseo

If this tweet is to be believed, is there anything to be said for some chance of Biden taking NC -

My maths, and please correct me if wrong, and disregarding 3rd party candidates
if there are 5% of votes still outsnading, would mean Biden needs 64.4% of the mail ins to win.

If he's winning mail ins in PA by 80% that wouldn't seem too tall an order?

https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/1325160871727869957?s=20

letowski

Water John wrote: »

That will be some battle

Imagine being a local news station! $$$

Water John

Couple of the hosts on CNN were saying the other night that they should by a local station.

Itssoeasy

That six one close which had joe Biden reading a Seamus Heaney poem is getting shared a lot on Twitter. I’ve seen Alyssa Milano and Keith olbermann tweet about it. In fairness it’s a well done video.

Brussels Sprout

sdanseo wrote: »

If this tweet is to be believed, is there anything to be said for some chance of Biden taking NC -

My maths, and please correct me if wrong, and disregarding 3rd party candidates
if there are 5% of votes still outsnading, would mean Biden needs 64.4% of the mail ins to win.

According to this site Biden needs 69% of the 188k votes left. It certainly seems possible but everybody in the know seems to think it's a long shot.

Water John

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That six one close which had joe Biden reading a Seamus Heaney poem is getting shared a lot on Twitter. I’ve seen Alyssa Milano and Keith olbermann tweet about it. In fairness it’s a well done video.

Any chance of a link, please.

Brian?

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

According to this site Biden needs 69% of the 188k votes left. It certainly seems possible but everybody in the know seems to think it's a long shot.

Holy Jaysus, I’d stopped watching NC 2 days ago. If Biden takes it , that’s a genuine landslide.

Itssoeasy

Brian? wrote: »

Holy Jaysus, I’d stopped watching NC 2 days ago. If Biden takes it , that’s a genuine landslide.

So did I because the way it was being talked about was that Trumps lead was holding steady. Clearly there is room to unsteady that lead.

Mr.Nice Guy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That six one close which had joe Biden reading a Seamus Heaney poem is getting shared a lot on Twitter. I’ve seen Alyssa Milano and Keith olbermann tweet about it. In fairness it’s a well done video.

That was a brilliant close by RTE.

breezy1985

Five Eighth wrote: »

It’s a bit rich to describe millions of people who voted for Trump and GOP as ‘idiots’. My point is that they did, in fact, vote for Trump and they obviously did so for good reason i.e. someone who they believed respected their worldview and articulated their hopes and aspirations. The main point is not whether Trump did or did not actually believe what he was saying but that millions of natural Democrat voters believed him and rejected the Democrats. They shouldn’t be regarded as ‘idiots’ or ‘deplorables’ for doing so. I assume you read the previous posts on this issue.

So if people voted for Trump because they believe that like them he is racist or sexist would that be a good reason. Should I then respect them and not think them idiots?

And if they voted for the billionaire who was against Obamacare from day one because he was the man who would look out for the working man then why not call them fools?

Brussels Sprout

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That six one close which had joe Biden reading a Seamus Heaney poem is getting shared a lot on Twitter. I’ve seen Alyssa Milano and Keith olbermann tweet about it. In fairness it’s a well done video.

I've just been scrolling through the Quoted Retweets of it for the past 10 minutes. Everyone is blown away:

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1325192497337950208/retweets/with_comments

[Deleted User]

I'm glad Biden won, but I will Miss Donny for his entertainment value.

RobertKK

Van Jones on CNN said, 'maybe 4 years ago we needed someone to shake up the soda bottle'.
Talking about the US getting the right president at the right time.

Very happy here with Joe Biden's election success.

Five Eighth

breezy1985 wrote: »

So if people voted for Trump because they believe that like them he is racist or sexist would that be a good reason. Should I then respect them and not think them idiots?

And if they voted for the billionaire who was against Obamacare from day one because he was the man who would look out for the working man then why not call them fools?

Have you read Cruel Summers's post (#5319). Covers the same general area but much better articulated. Maybe because the poster is writing from first hand experience. In relation to your particular points - you're stereotyping all who voted for Trump. Not everyone who voted for Trump is 'racist and sexist'. Secondly, people have many reasons for voting in a particular way and maybe people voted for Trump because they believed that the Democrats were not listening to their fears. These US citizens are the Democrats natural base. They should not be vilified.

Leftwaffe

I'm kind of lost here, Biden making a victory speech but Trump saying it isn't over?

Will Trump concede eventually and make a speech or will they have to force him out of office? When does he have to be 'out' technically?

Silly questions I know.

Water John

Lovely to see families in Delaware, esp young girls. A day of change.

valoren

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I'm kind of lost here, Biden making a victory speech but Trump saying it isn't over?

Will Trump concede eventually and make a speech or will they have to force him out of office? When does he have to be 'out' technically?

Silly questions I know.

A concession is not necessary. It has no systemic significance. It's merely a partisan gesture of acknowledging the other side won. It's akin to a metaphorical handshake after a sporting contest. Trump will never concede. The counting will finish and mid December the electoral college will cast their votes. The suits will ultimately amount to nothing and come noon on the 20th January he is no longer the President. I'm not sure if he has ever actually read the US Constitution but I'm sure someone in the inner circle will explain the machinations of it all to him.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Lovely to see families in Delaware, esp young girls. A day of change.

And masks to beat the band.

The Iron Giant

DM_2092 wrote: »

I'm glad Biden won, but I will Miss Donny for his entertainment value.

I will not. And I look forward to him not being on Twitter when he eventually shoots himself in the foot.

Leftwaffe

valoren wrote: »

A concession is not necessary. It has no systemic significance. It's merely a partisan gesture of acknowledging the other side won. It's akin to a metaphorical handshake after a sporting contest. Trump will never concede. The counting will finish and mid December the electoral college will cast their votes. The suits will ultimately amount to nothing and come noon on the 21st January he is no longer the President. I'm not sure if he has ever actually read the US Constitution but I'm sure someone in the inner circle will explain the machinations of it all to him.

That pretty much explains it, thanks.

Itssoeasy

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I will not. And I look forward to him not being on Twitter when he eventually shoots himself in the foot.

Yeah come 12:01pm on January 20th, 2021 the deference that Twitter have given the sitting American president will not apply so he can’t just rant like a mad man and say what he likes because unlike from 2017 to 2021 they won’t be protected.

The Iron Giant

valoren wrote: »

I'm not sure if he has ever actually read the US Constitution

I doubt he can even spell it.

The Iron Giant

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah come 12:01pm on January 20th, 2021 the deference that Twitter have given the sitting American president will not apply so he can’t just rant like a mad man and say what he likes because unlike from 2017 to 2021 they won’t be protected.

Yep. I'd say it'll follow the Katie Hopkins trajectory. Madness, incendiary nonsense and bullshït for a period before escalating and him being turfed off. And good riddance.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

This reads as bitter ?

Maybe I'm taking it up wrong but definitely appears bitter ?

I recall a president slating the armed forces, slating their dead, slating the deads families and calling anyone caught a loser. Sure would be the guy that I'd defend if i was a member. He sounds tip top class...

Oh and taking zero action or saying anything about an enemy putting bounties on my men.

No, not bitter at all. Remember, I voted for the guy who won.

(And I've had a bounty on my head before. Apparently I was only worth about $20USD to an Iraqi.)

It's the hyperbole which I'm commenting upon. Go back four years, see what I was posting. Lots of folks are going "Oh my God, worst thing ever", and I'm saying "Meh. It's not that bad, he's limited by what Congress sends him."

My faith in the US system of government has been described on here as naive or misguided, and likely a couple other terms I cannot recall. Well, it goes both ways. Trump wins, I say "Well, that's the way the country works". Biden wins, I say "Well, that's the way the country works". Big deal. Bush Jr was elected to the horror of many, the US kept ticking over, regardless of how evil, idiotic, draft-dodging etc it was claimed he was. Obama was elected, most significant president ever, it proved that racism was a thing of the past, a milestone in US evolution. Well, we know how well that worked out.

Well, good for Biden. It'll be nice to have someone Presidential in the White House again, and I wish him luck. The man isn't the second coming of Christ and, last I checked, the US seems to have survived four years of Trump, who didn't do very much that Congress didn't send to him to sign. I strongly suspect it would have survived eight years as well.

At this rate, the "Battle for the Soul of the Country" is going to be succeeded by "The battle for the Heart and Soul both of the Country", and whatever else after that. It just keeps getting more and more dramatic. Meanwhile, the US system of government remains intact, as it has for the last century and a half.

Overheal wrote: »

Is this type of activity legal?

Sure, why wouldn't it be? It's lower-key than going door to door getting folks to sign up to vote in (insert political demographic of choice here). It just encourages people to vote. Is that a bad thing?

If Starbucks gave hipsters free coffee for voting Fox News would melt down.

If you had to be a hipster to have the free coffee, maybe.

prawnsambo wrote: »

To be fair, Manic drove tanks in Afghanistan. That's pretty exposed in the political winds department.

I drove tanks in Iraq. In Afghanistan, I rode in a HMMWV or MRAP.

And, yes, it does mean that I am at least affected by foreign policy. On the other hand, it doesn't mean I'm always going to vote for the person who won't send me to war. There are times that going overseas is done for meritorious reasons, one has to trust in the civil leadership that this is the case.