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Dublin - BusConnects

marno21

Two weeks after a similar publication for Metrolink, the NTA have published a tender for design of 16 Core Bus Corridors for the BusConnect project:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127159&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

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MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

Another consultation with no notification to me or our residents group ( over 100 houses ) and there's huge changes not 100m from my house.

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

So far the sum total in our door has been 1 glossy brochure with the wrong bus route in it .

This is a detestable attitude, absolutely horrific. There have been several dozen consultations at this point, and all of them well signalled in advance. Anyone not aware of them is to blame here, not the NTA.

Get over yourself, your residents group has no more right to early consultation access than any of the non-egotistical, non-power-hungry residents who you deign to speak for.

JohnC.

If your residents association was not aware of what's happening in the area despite it being well known to others, perhaps it is them you should have a grievance with.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Another consultation with no notification to me or our residents group ( over 100 houses ) and there's huge changes not 100m from my house.

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

So far the sum total in our door has been 1 glossy brochure with the wrong bus route in it .

With due respect, this whole process has got massive coverage throughout in the print and broadcast media with every consultation getting a large amount of coverage, also on social media, and has been discussed to death here.

Are you and your fellow residents incapable of reading the material online like the rest of us and making a submission?

As other people have mentioned, this is a non-statutory consultation, so forget any court cases.

trellheim

If their argument is that none of these one hundred households realised what is going on despite the huge advertising

what huge advertising ? Like I said, no publicity or consultation beyond the wrong flyer in the door. You seem to think I am pulling your leg. Do you not see a bit of an echo chamber in here, this forum tends to be well-informed and I personally don't keep up with this thread.

And you might be right - it might be thrown out, but there's plenty of politicians to take up the cause too because normally they're all over this stuff so I guess they weren't told either.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

what huge advertising ? Like I said, no publicity or consultation beyond the wrong flyer in the door. You seem to think I am pulling your leg. Do you not see a bit of an echo chamber in here, this forum tends to be well-informed and I personally don't keep up with this thread.

And you might be right - it might be thrown out, but there's plenty of politicians to take up the cause too because normally they're all over this stuff so I guess they weren't told either.

Come off it.

There were ads on the sides of buses, ads in newspapers, and ads on bus shelters.

This has featured on the front pages of print media, and every consultation was covered by broadcast and online media.

Local politicians across the city have been consulted at every stage, and national politicians interrogated the NTA at the Oireachtas Transport Committee.

Perhaps all that travel that you used to do meant that it slipped past you? I cannot see how you could have missed it otherwise.

The days of being spoonfed everything are long gone.

This latest consultation was launched last week, and featured on TV and radio news, and all the national newspapers. What more do you want?

You have the same chance now as everyone else to respond to the consultation online - it is open until December 16th. Rather than moaning incoherently, read the documents and respond to the consultation.

donvito99

trellheim wrote: »

what huge advertising ? Like I said, no publicity or consultation beyond the wrong flyer in the door. You seem to think I am pulling your leg. Do you not see a bit of an echo chamber in here, this forum tends to be well-informed and I personally don't keep up with this thread.

How does 3 non-statutory public consultations, flyers, radio ads, ads on actual bus stops = "no publicity or consultation"?

I attended a Bus Connects consultation where residents claimed that they hadn't been consulted.... was that you?

And you might be right - it might be thrown out, but there's plenty of politicians to take up the cause too because normally they're all over this stuff so I guess they weren't told either.

Ireland is flush with hoor local and national politicians - responsible for the appalling infrastructure Bus Connects is trying to remediate - so you're not wrong there.

Peregrine

trellheim wrote: »

And you might be right - it might be thrown out, but there's plenty of politicians to take up the cause too because normally they're all over this stuff so I guess they weren't told either.

You guess incorrectly. There was an online presentation and Q&A session with all local TDs and councillors on the day of the launch on top of the media launch event.

Not seeing many of them take up the cause.

trellheim

You guess incorrectly. There was an online presentation and Q&A session with all local TDs and councillors on the day of the launch on top of the media launch event.

Please provide a link for this and with which councillors and TDs turned up/were invited. When did it happen ? I follow all my locals and not one of them have heard a peep of this.

As for LXFlyer - there has been no news about this consultation; I read the IT daily, RTE news more or less constantly. There has been

1. No local marketing
2. No national press I can see
3. Nothing on the sides of buses
4. Nothing in our doors except the wrong flyer

I've asked a random selection of neighbours and out of 10

8 out of 10 - no idea ( some said yes we got the flyer but it wasnt our area so binned it)

1 out of 10 "taking gardens off harold's cross residents isn't it ? "

1 out of 10 "they're stopping the 46a isn't it".

you may not like the evidence or believe I am trolling but get a hold of yourselves thats on the ground . This project has been start to finish poor consultation.

In direct opposite Irish Rail came and did a project a while back, residents fully consulted, mail and in-person where needed *locally* , politicians on board, requested changes taken on board in some cases , done, dusted and everything the better for it.

So it is possible for transport providers to do good consultation and for better things to happen.

The ONLY place I have seen this consultation is on this forum.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Please provide a link for this and with which councillors and TDs turned up/were invited. When did it happen ? I follow all my locals and not one of them have heard a peep of this.

As for LXFlyer - there has been no news about this consultation; I read the IT daily, RTE news more or less constantly. There has been

1. No local marketing
2. No national press I can see
3. Nothing on the sides of buses
4. Nothing in our doors except the wrong flyer

I've asked a random selection of neighbours and out of 10

8 out of 10 - no idea ( some said yes we got the flyer but it wasnt our area so binned it)

1 out of 10 "taking gardens off harold's cross residents isn't it ? "

1 out of 10 "they're stopping the 46a isn't it".

you may not like the evidence or believe I am trolling but get a hold of yourselves thats on the ground . This project has been start to finish poor consultation.

In direct opposite Irish Rail came and did a project a while back, residents fully consulted, mail and in-person where needed *locally* , politicians on board, requested changes taken on board in some cases , done, dusted and everything the better for it.

So it is possible for transport providers to do good consultation and for better things to happen.

The ONLY place I have seen this consultation is on this forum.

Well you asked. Here you go:

It was on the Six:One News and the Nine O'Clock news on RTE last Wednesday.

The RTE News report is here which includes the news report: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1103/1175785-dublin-bus-corridor/

It featured on RTE Radio 1 news bulletins on that day too.

Print and Online Media:

Irish Times:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/updated-busconnects-plans-to-be-published-ahead-of-consultation-1.4399315

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/busconnects-final-plans-for-16-dublin-bus-corridors-published-1.4400026

Irish Independent:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/public-to-review-controversial-bus-connects-plan-for-230km-of-bus-lanes-and-200km-of-cycle-lanes-across-the-city-39702082.html

Herald: https://m.herald.ie/news/public-getting-virtual-say-in-bus-connects-plans-39704044.html

Journal: https://www.thejournal.ie/busconnects-public-consultation-16-core-corridors-5254833-Nov2020/

So, definitely no publicity. Please stop this nonsense. You just didn't hear it or read any of the published news stories and are blaming everyone else but yourself, as you did before with the revised network consultations.

Look, you now know that there is an online consultation on busconnects.ie here:

https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/core-bus-corridor/

Instead of digging a massive hole for yourself, just go and read up on it like the rest of us and make a submission.

There certainly have been advertisements over the past couple of years on bus shelters and on the sides of buses highlighting the project. Again, you just didn't notice them.

Incidentally, the final revised network was published in September and received similar coverage. The plans are here:

https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/new-dublin-area-bus-network/

As for the councillors, here's a link to Joe Costello as an example:
https://twitter.com/JoeCostelloIE/status/1323993470625861632

Peregrine

trellheim wrote: »

Please provide a link for this and with which councillors and TDs turned up/were invited. When did it happen ? I follow all my locals and not one of them have heard a peep of this.

Jesus Christ, it's not a conspiracy. Local councillors, TDs and Senators in the five relevant local authorities were invited. It was on Wednesday afternoon at 2pm. They were notified last Friday. Whether your local reps turned up or not is for you to find out.

https://twitter.com/AlanFarrell/status/1323991753482031105?s=20

https://twitter.com/JoeCostelloIE/status/1323993470625861632?s=20

https://twitter.com/SeeryKearney/status/1324010048570482689?s=20

trellheim wrote: »

As for LXFlyer - there has been no news about this consultation; I read the IT daily, RTE news more or less constantly. There has been

1. No local marketing
2. No national press I can see
3. Nothing on the sides of buses
4. Nothing in our doors except the wrong flyer

...

The ONLY place I have seen this consultation is on this forum.

National news articles:

NTA bus plan set for third round of public consultation
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1103/1175785-dublin-bus-corridor/

Updated BusConnects plans to be published ahead of consultation
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/updated-busconnects-plans-to-be-published-ahead-of-consultation-1.4399315

BusConnects: Final plans for 16 Dublin bus corridors published
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/busconnects-final-plans-for-16-dublin-bus-corridors-published-1.4400026

Public to review controversial Bus Connects plan for 230km of bus lanes and 200km of cycle lanes across the city
https://independent.ie/irish-news/public-to-review-controversial-bus-connects-plan-for-230km-of-bus-lanes-and-200km-of-cycle-lanes-across-the-city-39702082.html

NTA launches fresh round of public consultation on BusConnects corridors
https://www.thejournal.ie/busconnects-public-consultation-16-core-corridors-5254833-Nov2020/

RTE Six One news:
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1324054884367388672?s=20

Local:

Public to have their say on city’s new bus corridors
https://dublinpeople.com/news/uncategorized/articles/2020/11/04/public-to-have-their-say-on-citys-new-bus-corridors/

Public getting virtual say in Bus Connects plans
https://herald.ie/news/public-getting-virtual-say-in-bus-connects-plans-39704044.html

Public Can Have Their Say On Bus Connects Plan Once Again
https://www.98fm.com/news/public-can-have-their-say-on-bus-connects-plan-once-again-1100526

CatInABox

There's been TV and radio, newspaper and magazine, billboards and bus shelter adverts.

The government was actually criticised for spending so much money on such an extensive campaign.

Here's a TV ad for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPqkeou-Zpo

To be honest, you only need to look at the number of submissions that they've received to know how successful they've been at getting knowledge out about this. They've had tens of thousands of individual submissions.

It is very safe to say that this project is the most consulted upon project in the history of the state, and it shows. TDs and councillors alike have commended the NTA on it, particularly on the fact that they've taken on board all criticism and issues raised, and either fixed the issue or explained why it has to be this way.

If your association, councillors or TD is saying that they knew nothing about it, then the problem isn't with the NTA, it's with the person you've chosen to represent you.

Seth Brundle

Peregrine wrote: »

Jesus Christ, it's not a conspiracy. Local councillors, TDs and Senators in the five relevant local authorities were invited. It was on Wednesday afternoon at 2pm. They were notified last Friday. Whether your local reps turned up or not is for you to find out.

https://twitter.com/AlanFarrell/status/1323991753482031105?s=20

https://twitter.com/JoeCostelloIE/status/1323993470625861632?s=20

https://twitter.com/SeeryKearney/status/1324010048570482689?s=20

National news articles:

NTA bus plan set for third round of public consultation
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1103/1175785-dublin-bus-corridor/

Updated BusConnects plans to be published ahead of consultation
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/updated-busconnects-plans-to-be-published-ahead-of-consultation-1.4399315

BusConnects: Final plans for 16 Dublin bus corridors published
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/busconnects-final-plans-for-16-dublin-bus-corridors-published-1.4400026

Public to review controversial Bus Connects plan for 230km of bus lanes and 200km of cycle lanes across the city
https://independent.ie/irish-news/public-to-review-controversial-bus-connects-plan-for-230km-of-bus-lanes-and-200km-of-cycle-lanes-across-the-city-39702082.html

NTA launches fresh round of public consultation on BusConnects corridors
https://www.thejournal.ie/busconnects-public-consultation-16-core-corridors-5254833-Nov2020/

RTE Six One news:
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1324054884367388672?s=20

Local:

Public to have their say on city’s new bus corridors
https://dublinpeople.com/news/uncategorized/articles/2020/11/04/public-to-have-their-say-on-citys-new-bus-corridors/

Public getting virtual say in Bus Connects plans
https://herald.ie/news/public-getting-virtual-say-in-bus-connects-plans-39704044.html

Public Can Have Their Say On Bus Connects Plan Once Again
https://www.98fm.com/news/public-can-have-their-say-on-bus-connects-plan-once-again-1100526

trellheim wrote: »

I follow all my locals and not one of them have heard a peep of this.

Now I’m confused :pac:

dublinman1990

There was an EcoEye programme about BusConnects repeated on RTÉ One with Duncan Stewart recently, literally shown a few weeks ago as he was profiling it as a national project. There also have been ads on BusConnects placed inside buses as well as outside being displayed as T-side adverts run by Dublin Bus & Go-Ahead Ireland over the years since the plan went into it's 1st consultation by the NTA.

It has been a huge project for the city of Dublin to take part since the establishment of the project.

I cannot really believe that a small amount of people living in Dublin have literally ''not'' been consulted on the plans since the latest consultation on the core bus corridors (the new name being used for the revamped QBC's) were launched since last Wednesday. All of the consultations on this plan up to now have been officially been made public since it was launched by the NTA & Jarrett Walker in 2018.

I myself have actually submitted an online form for the Bus livery survey before the plan was launched in Dublin & two online forms on the bus network redesign project focusing on my area of Blackrock in that time. I did take a good bit of my time to make a submissions on them.

It really is a fascinating project to take part in once you get the notification for it to join in a public consultation for your area.

Obviously because Covid-19 is currently making a devastating impact across the globe this year; all levels of the communications with members of the public including community associations, disability groups & public representatives for this new CBC public consultation plans for Dublin are taking place via online consultation rooms which are available on BusConnects.ie. They have these plans displayed in specific consultation rooms online which make them look like they are from your own locality. They have them personalised so that it covers your own CBC project for your local area. I have been in 2 of them so far for the Blackrock to Merrion Corridor & the Bray to City Centre corridor. I think each one has their own local authority displaying their own logo once you enter the link to the virtual room that you are visiting for your area. It has a good amount of material for you to look at when you enter it.

They have links for the actual document for your area including supporting documents which include the urban realm documents which cover all of the new tree plantings in those corridors. They have 2 very brief youtube videos on what is included in the CBC's themselves like the bus controlled priority signalling simulation & the bus gate proposal simulation. These videos show us how those plans once they get implemented from the public consultation that are concluded. Again; these are just proposals but those 2 things shown on Youtube are really critical components of the project to make it a success in our own capital city of Dublin & in other cities around the country if & when they're needed.

If your own local community association missed out big time on a big project like this one; I don't know what to say to you as a comforting reply. There literally has been a huge truckload of verbal & written communication taking place between the NTA & members of the public over this project in Dublin over the last 2 years. That level of communication has been monumental to date for a project of this size & scale.

It will now get spread to other cities now, as it's currently the case in Galway & with a new project being prepared for Cork, the project is giving out more official attention to members of the public who live outside the city of Dublin. Let me ask you this question Trellheim; are you making an assumption that you & your community association may have possibly missed out on a critical part of your area that was being reworked on since the last consultation had finished this year? From an ideal perspective; you would have to tell us which area of Dublin being highlighted from your local CBC plan for us to get any sense of your issue.

Pete_Cavan

Just looking at the process for making a submission and you either post in a letter or email a single email address. Seems a bit stupid not to have an email address for each corridor which would take out the work of having to sort them (or a dedicated online form in each virtual consultation room), particularly as there are different teams and different consultants on various corridors. Given the number of submissions is likely to be significant, and I'm sure many people wont put the corridor in the subject line, there is likely to be a bit of work in that. Some people also may make a submission on more than one corridor which means it would have to be split.

trellheim

Let me ask you this question Trellheim; are you making an assumption that you & your community association may have possibly missed out on a critical part of your area that was being reworked on since the last consultation had finished this year?

It's not an assumption unfortunately.

I put this up on the residents Whatsapp and zero people had heard about it apart from the few I had mentioned above.

The amount of Comical Ali stuff on here claiming there has been consultation. Well, there wasn't. ( sorry - wrong, I did mention we got the wrong flyer in the door in the estate )

and

If we are being entirely honest I saw the headline regarding the increase in tree felling but did not connect it with a revised project . As for the rest, completely under the radar.

Thanks for the links above, checked my locals, and nothing heard from any of the TDs or local authority reps.

I''ll move on as there's little point debating it - it's clear many here seem to think we're being deliberately obtuse. However everything I've said is being honest and upfront.

Seth Brundle

trellheim wrote: »

It's not an assumption unfortunately.

I put this up on the residents Whatsapp and zero people had heard about it apart from the few I had mentioned above.

But that is your and your neighbours fault. Nobody else is responsible!

trellheim wrote: »

The amount of Comical Ali stuff on here claiming there has been consultation. Well, there wasn't. ( sorry - wrong, I did mention we got the wrong flyer in the door in the estate )

So people have shown you how there was loads of consultation and yet you still say there was none?
It's like you're sticking your fingers in your ears and singing la la la la la la....

trellheim wrote: »

Thanks for the links above, checked my locals, and nothing heard from any of the TDs or local authority reps.

Which TDs and councillors did you ask that said they hadn't heard anything?

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

It's not an assumption unfortunately.

I put this up on the residents Whatsapp and zero people had heard about it apart from the few I had mentioned above.

The amount of Comical Ali stuff on here claiming there has been consultation. Well, there wasn't. ( sorry - wrong, I did mention we got the wrong flyer in the door in the estate )

and

If we are being entirely honest I saw the headline regarding the increase in tree felling but did not connect it with a revised project . As for the rest, completely under the radar.

Thanks for the links above, checked my locals, and nothing heard from any of the TDs or local authority reps.

I''ll move on as there's little point debating it - it's clear many here seem to think we're being deliberately obtuse. However everything I've said is being honest and upfront.

I didn't think you were being obtuse. I was merely disagreeing with you about the lack of coverage - as you can see there has been plenty.

With any project like this you really ought to always look at it the news stories and look at the website to double check - I do suspect that you're not alone in not checking.

Did you check your politicians' twitter feeds or facebook pages?

You cannot expect flyers in the door or personal contact any more - you do need to take some responsibility yourself to look at politician's twitter and facebook, and the BusConnects website once a news story is published. There is lots of information online.

I would definitely expect residents' associations committee members to be doing that.

If people don't, well that's really their hard luck. You've admitted that you saw the story and just blanked it.

But fire away now and read up, spread the word with neighbours and work colleagues, and put in a submission!

The more submissions the better.

jimmycrackcorm

trellheim wrote: »

It's not an assumption unfortunately.

I put this up on the residents Whatsapp and zero people had heard about it apart from the few I had mentioned above.

The amount of Comical Ali stuff on here claiming there has been consultation. Well, there wasn't. ( sorry - wrong, I did mention we got the wrong flyer in the door in the estate )

you won't get far with the dog ate my homework excuse when it comes to the flyer. Personally, I looked up the actual changes that affect my area instead of expecting the chairman of the NTA to send me a dinner invite to discuss.

You're well able to post on boards so I can't understand how you can complain about not knowing what is going on with it when a quick google gets you the required information and how to make submissions. The denial is what is actually comical Ali...

cgcsb

This is some tedious shisser on the last 2 pages, maybe move on?

donvito99

cgcsb wrote: »

This is some tedious shisser on the last 2 pages, maybe move on?

Let's have 3 consultations about whether to move the thread on or not.

cgcsb

donvito99 wrote: »

Let's have 3 consultations about whether to move the thread on or not.

But then if I don't get the carrier pigeon message ( cos I can't Google things for some reason) about one of them I'll be bull-thick.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we discuss the topic. There has been plenty of consultation, and everyone should be informed enough to make their point about the core corridors.

Qrt

I saw a point on Twitter about the Greenhills Road realignment and whether or not it’s needed. I was definitely on the yes side when I thought the old road was going to be returned to green space, but now I’m kinda struggling the improvement (to the degree expected)

L1011

A total realignment of the Greenhills Road has been in play for decades now with multiple designs. Nearly all were quite extensive and indeed from aerial photography you can see the land reservations and stub roads already built for basically what's proposed now on the 2000 aerial photography on geohive.ie. Not 2020, 2000!

Its a country lane in the city. Should have been done a decade ago.

tom1ie

L1011 wrote: »

A total realignment of the Greenhills Road has been in play for decades now with multiple designs. Nearly all were quite extensive and indeed from aerial photography you can see the land reservations and stub roads already built for basically what's proposed now on the 2000 aerial photography on geohive.ie. Not 2020, 2000!

Its a country lane in the city. Should have been done a decade ago.

Absolutely.
It’s a dangerous road for cyclists and has very narrow paths for pedestrians.
Add this to (pre covid) busses stuck in traffic as far back as the Walkinstown roundabout up to the N81, it is an absolute nightmare of a road.

tom1ie

One other thing, is it planned to be able to pay onto a bus using your phone (or contactless debit/cc) instead of using cash?
I don’t have a leap card as I don’t use PT that much, only the odd trip into the city centre with the family.

LXFlyer

tom1ie wrote: »

One other thing, is it planned to be able to pay onto a bus using your phone (or contactless debit/cc) instead of using cash?
I don’t have a leap card as I don’t use PT that much, only the odd trip into the city centre with the family.

Yes. It is in the pipeline.

Contracts have been awarded for the mobile ticketing, and it is currently being tested.

Contactless will follow.

https://www.eolasmagazine.ie/next-generation-ticketing/

tom1ie

LXFlyer wrote: »

Yes. It is in the pipeline.

Contracts have been awarded for the mobile ticketing, and it is currently being tested.

Contactless will follow.

https://www.eolasmagazine.ie/next-generation-ticketing/

That’s great news. Thanks.

Victor

tom1ie wrote: »

I don’t have a leap card as I don’t use PT that much, only the odd trip into the city centre with the family.

Note that if you are paying in cash, you can pay for everyone from the one Leap Card.

BobbyMalone

Deleted User wrote: »

https://busconnects.ie/media/2096/10-tallaght-to-terenure-preferred-route-301020fa-web.pdf

Could someone explain what inbound cyclists are meant to do under this scheme? They seem to be thrown under a bus (figuratively and literally) for much of it

Some of the proposed cycling/pedestrian routes are absolutely bizarre and will not be used - so we'll be back to the same 'problems' of cyclists using the old routes and ignoring the diversions.