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US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Quin_Dub

Continuation thread from here

All existing rules still stand.

Everyone will want to be active in this thread over the next few days , but there will be zero tolerance for Forum rule breaches.

Keep it Sensible , Civil and Polite please.

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Brian?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say that "Trumpism" is just bare rage and prejudice and nothing more than that. It won't die with Trump, it'll simply find a new avatar now that the genie's out of the lamp. The GOP no longer need to pretend to condemn racism or aim for some facade of respectability. That's the big change Trump made to US politics.

The feelings won’t die, true. I think you’re right, the biggest change Trump made is that you no longer have to fear being a bigot. That’s worrying.

I do believe that over half of Trumps support is in spite of him being a bigot, not because of it. His propaganda was good enough that a lot of people were willing to over look his bigotry because of the economy pre Covid.

The exit polls showed again the economy was by far the biggest issue for voters.

Brian?

signostic wrote: »

CNN must be paying Rick Santorum a fortune to sit there and soak it up...

I’ve despised the guy since 2012. But I’ve actually got a new respect for him this year. If only he was kinder to gay people.

eastie17

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

CNN stating that DJT has a "stranglehold on the Republican Party." Senior Republican figures were apparently on Fox echoing the sentiments of the president, Republicans you would expect would be front runners for the 2024 nomination.
There's very little to suggest so far that the Rep party will be dropping the Trump family when all is said and done in this election. The opposite seems more likely.

Correct, even in areas where they didnt win, they got numbers that Republican candidates have never seen before. Much like TV ratings in that industry that is all they care about, votes. They wont distance themselves from him until he is of no use to them anymore

Brian?

pixelburp wrote: »

I think "trumpism" is simply American Populism by way of a gimmick name, it won't die with Trump because it floats about in one way or another across the western world ATM. This anti establishment rage, manifest in various, sometimes self destructive actions such as Brexit - or 2016 brand Trump. Trump has been a symptom, not the disease and all that Flyover State, conservative pushback against the post 2008 world won't go away.

Agreed. The rage will find a new figure head and the GOP will retake the house in 2022. There’s a crushing inevitability to it.

I’m still amazed that conservatives support Trump. He’s a big government authoritarian, except for his tax policy.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

everlast75 wrote: »

Particular credit needs to go to this lady too

https://twitter.com/TheWomensOrg/status/1324653254450569218?s=20

Inspirational stuff

Good woman, Stacey!

Brussels Sprout

Gbear wrote: »

It was perhaps a blessing in disguise that she didn't win (or, had stolen from her), the governorship of Georgia. She should keep doing what she's been doing.

They should make a cabinet position for election engagement and put her in it.

Yeah she was utterly shafted two years ago. How the hell can someone oversee their own election!! She handled it in the perfect way though.

She resisted calls to run for the Senate this cycle so I suspect she wants another crack off of Kemp in 2022. I would not bet against her after this.

Jo jo the eskimo

If the violence starts wont that give trump more leverage
to get out of any trouble that awaits him
He's not gonna say bidan won until he has his own issues sorted, until then he's just gonna keep stirring up trouble.

Gbear

Brian? wrote: »

I’m still amazed that conservatives support Trump. He’s a big government authoritarian, except for his tax policy.

But that's the core of conservatism. Why is that in any way surprising?

VinLieger

Brian? wrote: »

Agreed. The rage will find a new figure head and the GOP will retake the house in 2022. There’s a crushing inevitability to it.

I’m still amazed that conservatives support Trump. He’s a big government authoritarian, except for his tax policy.

They dont really care about taxes or big government, it comes down to 2 issues abortion and racism, he is against abortion and is at the very least absolutely fine with racism if not an active racist himself so they like him.

Those who are anti-abortion dont care about the racist people because they will do anything to stop abortions.

TomOnBoard

Brian? wrote: »

I’m a bit disappointed people are even using the term “Trumpism”. It’s not a philosophy or an ethos of any kind. It’s an empty vessel people pour their own hatred and fear into. Trump doesn’t actually stand for anything.

To steal a quote. Dude, say what you want about National Socialism, but at least it was an ethos. Can anyone tell me the core values of Trumpism?

It’s a personality cult. That’s it. It dies with Trump.

Sadly, it won't die with Trump's leaving the White House. He and his grifters will harness it and milk it for as long as they can get a buck out of the millions of cult members.. Think Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh on steroids on a re-badged OANN that will displace Fox News. There's MILLIONS of $$$ to be made while revelling in conspiracy theories, 2A merch and a pity party that will go on for years.

OhHiMark

Gbear wrote: »

But that's the core of conservatism. Why is that in any way surprising?

Republicans are all about small government, fewer regulations.

ancapailldorcha

breezy1985 wrote: »

All this great replacement stuff and white insecurity isnt going anywhere any time soon.

Exactly. Biden is a 2016 status quo candidate and the 2016 status quo gifted us Trump.

Brian? wrote: »

The feelings won’t die, true. I think you’re right, the biggest change Trump made is that you no longer have to fear being a bigot. That’s worrying.

I do believe that over half of Trumps support is in spite of him being a bigot, not because of it. His propaganda was good enough that a lot of people were willing to over look his bigotry because of the economy pre Covid.

The exit polls showed again the economy was by far the biggest issue for voters.

I don't know if it'd be over half or how bigoted someone would be before you applied the term. I'm inclined to belive that each party has huge blocks of voters with a small cohort of swing voters who are willing to switch parties.

I think the more bigoted of Trump's voters (as distinct from his fanbase) are just loud and noisy as opposed to being numerous. The US has serious issues relating to race that are much more pronounced than those anywhere in Europe. This won't change when Biden is inaugurated but hopefully the Democrats can try and groom a new leader and a new vision for America. It's the best we can hope for.

Brian?

Gbear wrote: »

But that's the core of conservatism. Why is that in any way surprising?

Conservatives used to be about small government- in everything.

Maybe I just need to recalibrate to what conservative means now: racial and religious intolerance ad irresponsible fiscal policy that runs up the deficit. Essentially the opposite of what it used to mean.

Brian?

VinLieger wrote: »

They dont really care about taxes or big government, it comes down to 2 issues abortion and racism, he is against abortion and is at the very least absolutely fine with racism if not an active racist himself so they like him.

Those who are anti-abortion dont care about the racist people because they will do anything to stop abortions.

It’s about more than abortion though. They want to eliminate the separation between church and state.

Religious charter schools - that’s the long game.

ancapailldorcha

Brian? wrote: »

Conservatives used to be about small government- in everything.

Maybe I just need to recalibrate to what conservative means now: racial and religious intolerance ad irresponsible fiscal policy that runs up the deficit. Essentially the opposite of what it used to mean.

They only care about small government when not in power. Same with the deficit. The Tories in the UK are exactly the same. Conservatism, as in preserving the current status quo and making incremental changes where they can't be avoided died a death a long time ago in both countries.

Canice Picklington

Brian? wrote: »

I’m a bit disappointed people are even using the term “Trumpism”. It’s not a philosophy or an ethos of any kind. It’s an empty vessel people pour their own hatred and fear into. Trump doesn’t actually stand for anything.

To steal a quote. Dude, say what you want about National Socialism, but at least it was an ethos. Can anyone tell me the core values of Trumpism?

It’s a personality cult. That’s it. It dies with Trump.

Fascism requires a very specific sort of demagogue, which can vary based on the cultural circumstances of where it happens. Trump is a truly gifted demagogue ideally suited to exploiting the white American psyche. His evil "gift" was that to many people he made the deeply threatening and the evil appear almost comical and endearing. He used high camp, and I mean high camp in the over the top, performative sense. There was an almost sexual aspect to his demagoguery too, where deeply unhappy people got to live out a fever dream where their anger at what they see as their own inadequacy was channeled through a seemingly omnipotent, infallible, supernatural leader.

Despite probably never laughing in the real sense in his life, he has elements of a stand up comedian in his public speaking manner.

Creating all this requires a total confidence in your shamelessness. It requires the creation of a dystopian fantasy world of make believe, and the creation of eternal victimhood as the immediate go to outlet when reality intrudes on this fantasy - which is all the time.

If you look at the sort of demagogues who predominate within the English speaking world, most have this high camp, almost comedy element to them - Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Ian Paisley, in this country the Healy Raes. It also applies to media demagogues, think of Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Katie Hopkins.

The likes of say, Tom Cotton, could not do what Trump does. Because they immediately come across as deeply threatening, with no comedy or fake endearment factor to suck the masses in. And he has no entertainment factor whatsoever.

In the English speaking world, fascism has used dumb entertainment as its avenue to power.

VinLieger

Mitch speaks

https://twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1324697471654789120

Still walking the line of "count legal votes" leaving him open to shout about fraud if he needs to but i only think he will go that line if its close or a draw which its looking like it wont be

Brian?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Exactly. Biden is a 2016 status quo candidate and the 2016 status quo gifted us Trump.

I don't know if it'd be over half or how bigoted someone would be before you applied the term. I'm inclined to belive that each party has huge blocks of voters with a small cohort of swing voters who are willing to switch parties.

I think the more bigoted of Trump's voters (as distinct from his fanbase) are just loud and noisy as opposed to being numerous. The US has serious issues relating to race that are much more pronounced than those anywhere in Europe. This won't change when Biden is inaugurated but hopefully the Democrats can try and groom a new leader and a new vision for America. It's the best we can hope for.

Ironically it was Obama being elected with a new vision that lead to Trump.

Too many Americans don’t want a new vision. They tell themselves it was great in the old
Days and want that back. They don’t remember that millions of people of colour and the LGBT community lived in every day fear. They see the new liberties that people enjoy as a bad thing. This is the real problem.

Windmill100000

*This certainly is a year like no other*

Absolutely. In years to come students will study this bizarre episode. Sometimes I actually cannot believe what I am seeing/hearing.

pixelburp

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Good woman, Stacey!

I'm sure somewhere there's a GOP narrative that finds her enthusiastic enfranchisement as anti democratic.

Brian?

Canice Picklington wrote: »

Fascism requires a very specific sort of demagogue, which can vary based on the cultural circumstances of where it happens. Trump is a truly gifted demagogue ideally suited to exploiting the white American psyche. His evil "gift" was that to many people he made the deeply threatening and the evil appear almost comical and endearing. He used high camp, and I mean high camp in the over the top, performative sense. There was an almost sexual aspect to his demagoguery too, where deeply unhappy people got to live out a fever dream where their anger at what they see as their own inadequacy was channeled through a seemingly omnipotent, infallible, supernatural leader.

Despite probably never laughing in the real sense in his life, he has elements of a stand up comedian in his public speaking manner.

Creating all this requires a total confidence in your shamelessness. It requires the creation of a dystopian fantasy world of make believe, and the creation of eternal victimhood as the immediate go to outlet when reality intrudes on this fantasy - which is all the time.

If you look at the sort of demagogues who predominate within the English speaking world, most have this high camp, almost comedy element to them - Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Ian Paisley, in this country the Healy Raes. It also applies to media demagogues, think of Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Katie Hopkins.

The likes of say, Tom Cotton, could not do what Trump does. Because they immediately come across as deeply threatening, with no comedy or fake endearment factor to suck the masses in. And he has no entertainment factor whatsoever.

In the English speaking world, fascism has used dumb entertainment as its avenue to power.

Completely agree. For a long time I’ve felt Trump isn’t a fascist. But the people around him and using him lean that way.

[Deleted User]

VinLieger wrote: »

Mitch speaks.....

Speaks a load of vague nonsense, maybe. That's exactly what HAS been happening, until somebody has proof of anything else then they and their views can be dismissed, including Trump's.

"Hillary Trump lost, get over it"

Brian?

VinLieger wrote: »

Mitch speaks

https://twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1324697471654789120

Still walking the line of "count legal votes" leaving him open to shout about fraud if he needs to but i only think he will go that line if its close or a draw which its looking like it wont be

He’s a coward. He said nothing.

Headshot

In the next 20mins Philadelphia will have 20k votes updated.

Canice Picklington

To me there are also elements of the wellness industry's shtick in Trump. The idea that you are an individual above all else, and that you can be anything you want to be taken to a ludicrous extreme. That you can live in a fantasy world. The corporate idea of shallow, superficial wellness, and appearances, based on dumb, faux profound, vacuous memes and slogans. The idea of feelings and delusion over facts and reality.

Trump's America is like Simpsons' wellness guru Brad Goodman and his "do you what you feel" mantra, come to real life. A retreat into fantasy, a rejection of reality.

BorneTobyWilde

Brian? wrote: »

That’s a steaming pile of BS you’ve concocted.

How can you say that? It's not, it's a fact. One person in a family can fill out multiple ballots for members of their family who were never going to vote in person.
Uncle Bob who lives in the basement voted this year, he doesn't know he voted, but his sister knows, she filled it out and dropped it off.

OhHiMark

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

How can you say that? It's not, it's a fact. One person in a family can fill out multiple ballots for members of their family who were never going to vote in person.
Uncle Bob who lives in the basement voted this year, he doesn't know he voted, but his sister knows, she filled it out and dropped it off.

Well you can claim anything that you want and call it a fact, but nobody will believe you unless you give some evidence.

VinLieger

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

How can you say that? It's not, it's a fact.

No its not, its a theory, one of which you have zero evidence for so the correct term would actually be a conspiracy theory

Akabusi

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

How can you say that? It's not, it's a fact. One person in a family can fill out multiple ballots for members of their family who were never going to vote in person.
Uncle Bob who lives in the basement voted this year, he doesn't know he voted, but his sister knows, she filled it out and dropped it off.

Yeah sure. Whatever makes you feel better, go with that.

Brian?

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

How can you say that? It's not, it's a fact. One person in a family can fill out multiple ballots for members of their family who were never going to vote in person.
Uncle Bob who lives in the basement voted this year, he doesn't know he voted, but his sister knows, she filled it out and dropped it off.

You’ve made up a little fairy tale and have the neck to use the word “fact”?

Present a single piece of evidence this has happened on a large enough scale to effect the outcome and we can dance. Up until then, it’s BE.