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Dublin - BusConnects

marno21

Two weeks after a similar publication for Metrolink, the NTA have published a tender for design of 16 Core Bus Corridors for the BusConnect project:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127159&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

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MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

Another consultation with no notification to me or our residents group ( over 100 houses ) and there's huge changes not 100m from my house.

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

So far the sum total in our door has been 1 glossy brochure with the wrong bus route in it .

This is a detestable attitude, absolutely horrific. There have been several dozen consultations at this point, and all of them well signalled in advance. Anyone not aware of them is to blame here, not the NTA.

Get over yourself, your residents group has no more right to early consultation access than any of the non-egotistical, non-power-hungry residents who you deign to speak for.

Dats me

Peregrine wrote: »

The case will be thrown out. What would they be taking a court case against? Road layout changes near their house? On what grounds?

The NTA will argue that, on top of the statutory consultation required during the planning approval phase (which we haven't got to yet), they carried out three non-statutory consultations which were widely advertised online and in the media and that they held community forums with residents organisations all around Dublin. They will argue that one residents organisation out of hundreds not feeling consulted during a non-statutory public consultation is isn't grounds for a court case.

They've engaged over and over again with people involved in any CPO. Roads are public space, you don't own it because you live nearby. They've been consulting for three years on this and it's going to ABP for statutory consultation. People who think they've a right to veto any project because they happen to own a house somewhere nearby need to get in the bin.

People who are actually interested in making it work and be constructive literally could not have missed this project.

Pete_Cavan

Peregrine wrote: »

They will argue that one residents organisation out of hundreds not feeling consulted during a non-statutory public consultation isn't grounds for a court case.

And they'd be right.

If their argument is that none of these one hundred households realised what is going on despite the huge advertising and attention which all of the multiple consultations have received and therefore it should be scrapped, they haven't a hope.

Peregrine

trellheim wrote: »

Another consultation with no notification to me or our residents group ( over 100 houses ) and there's huge changes not 100m from my house.

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

So far the sum total in our door has been 1 glossy brochure with the wrong bus route in it .

The case will be thrown out. What would they be taking a court case against? Road layout changes near their house? On what grounds?

The NTA will argue that, on top of the statutory consultation required during the planning approval phase (which we haven't got to yet), they carried out three non-statutory consultations which were widely advertised online and in the media and that they held community forums with residents organisations all around Dublin. They will argue that one residents organisation out of hundreds not feeling consulted during a non-statutory public consultation isn't grounds for a court case.

riddlinrussell wrote: »

It feels like they got complaints about those specific ones, took the feedback on board and fixed them, and called it a day without re-examining the rest of the scheme

Different engineering companies worked on different routes, I think. I know cycling advocates made specific proposals re the Griffith Road junctions at Drumcondra and Mobhi Rd.

CatInABox

trellheim wrote: »

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

I doubt it, to be honest. Throughout all of this years long process, there has been countless adverts online, on bus shelters and billboards all over the city, on the radio and on TV. The idea that they have to hold your hand at every step of the process, saying soothing things to you, is utterly, utterly ridiculous.

trellheim

Another consultation with no notification to me or our residents group ( over 100 houses ) and there's huge changes not 100m from my house.

Anyone taking a court case will win hands-down .

So far the sum total in our door has been 1 glossy brochure with the wrong bus route in it .

riddlinrussell

Qrt wrote: »

I'm completely at a loss trying to think why they have a great, proper Dutch-style junction at the Drumcondra/Griffith Avenue junction, a CYCLOPS junction in Clondalkin, and then deathtraps for the rest of the junction? Surely they should have just stuck with the one design?

It feels like they got complaints about those specific ones, took the feedback on board and fixed them, and called it a day without re-examining the rest of the scheme

Qrt

I'm completely at a loss trying to think why they have a great, proper Dutch-style junction at the Drumcondra/Griffith Avenue junction, a CYCLOPS junction in Clondalkin, and then deathtraps for the rest of the junction? Surely they should have just stuck with the one design?

spacetweek

SDCC just emailed us to tell us about the launch of third round of public consultation on BusConnects in our area. Planning on submitting to ABP in Q1 2021.

Facepalm.

Here's my feedback. Will you just build it already!!

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

https://busconnects.ie/media/2096/10-tallaght-to-terenure-preferred-route-301020fa-web.pdf

Could someone explain what inbound cyclists are meant to do under this scheme? They seem to be thrown under a bus (figuratively and literally) for much of it

Basically this:

donvito99

Deleted User wrote: »

https://busconnects.ie/media/2096/10-tallaght-to-terenure-preferred-route-301020fa-web.pdf

Could someone explain what inbound cyclists are meant to do under this scheme? They seem to be thrown under a bus (figuratively and literally) for much of it

The only improvement is the widening of Templeogue Rd west of Templeogue village and the bus gate at Terenure. Otherwise your average commuter cyclist won't touch the proposed meandering, stop/start cycle paths.

[Deleted User]

https://busconnects.ie/media/2096/10-tallaght-to-terenure-preferred-route-301020fa-web.pdf

Could someone explain what inbound cyclists are meant to do under this scheme? They seem to be thrown under a bus (figuratively and literally) for much of it

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

even if the yellow box is kept clear, there's not much point giving the bus priority if it's driving into the back of a solid line of traffic on the single-lane section.

I think it would be useful if the bus always had priority in that cars must always give way to buses pulling out. Enforcement might be an issue, but that is true for bus lanes anyway. Enforcement cameras on buses is the way to go - buses already have internet access.

loyatemu

cgcsb wrote: »

well there is still a point because it's better than just hoping that cars will let the bus merge in and I presume the traffic light system is smart enough that it attempts to clear the shared section when a bus arrives.

clear it where, into the next jammed up section? There will be buses arriving every couple of minutes on the main corridors.

cgcsb

loyatemu wrote: »

even if the yellow box is kept clear, there's not much point giving the bus priority if it's driving into the back of a solid line of traffic on the single-lane section.

well there is still a point because it's better than just hoping that cars will let the bus merge in and I presume the traffic light system is smart enough that it attempts to clear the shared section when a bus arrives.

loyatemu

cgcsb wrote: »

Yellow box for the first few metres then a general traffic lane as attached pic. Obviously yellow boxes aren't much noticed in this country so yeah it comes back to enforcement. If indeed these measures are enforced then expect car commuters complaining no end that their journey is taking twice as long as a similar bus journey.

even if the yellow box is kept clear, there's not much point giving the bus priority if it's driving into the back of a solid line of traffic on the single-lane section.

cgcsb

loyatemu wrote: »

personally I don't see how these can work well if traffic is heavy.
Will there be yellow boxes painted on the shared sections?

Yellow box for the first few metres then a general traffic lane as attached pic. Obviously yellow boxes aren't much noticed in this country so yeah it comes back to enforcement. If indeed these measures are enforced then expect car commuters complaining no end that their journey is taking twice as long as a similar bus journey.

cgcsb

riddlinrussell wrote: »

The reliance on bus gates and bus priority seems to imply that either the NTA are relatively confident of getting the laws on enforcement changed, or they are away with the fairies about the idea of people obeying the restrictions.

I would hope they've had a look at the existing bus gates at College Green and Bachelors walk and the answer is the former, but don't know.

riddlinrussell

loyatemu wrote: »

personally I don't see how these can work well if traffic is heavy.
Will there be yellow boxes painted on the shared sections?

The reliance on bus gates and bus priority seems to imply that either the NTA are relatively confident of getting the laws on enforcement changed, or they are away with the fairies about the idea of people obeying the restrictions.

loyatemu

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd also add there seems to have been a significant increase in dependence on bus priority signals to make shared sections work. These type of things depend on a rigorous enforcement regime in other countries, just hope that the same happens here. The existing bus gates don't inspire much confidence.

personally I don't see how these can work well if traffic is heavy.
Will there be yellow boxes painted on the shared sections?

cgcsb

I'd also add there seems to have been a significant increase in dependence on bus priority signals to make shared sections work. These type of things depend on a rigorous enforcement regime in other countries, just hope that the same happens here. The existing bus gates don't inspire much confidence.

Seth Brundle

RTÉ article (good to see them to demonstrate the cars turning left ignoring the cyclists who had priority)...
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1324054884367388672?s=19

Zebra3

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Irish Times is such a ****sturring rag sometimes, finds the negative in anything that progresses Dublin into a modern European capital. Always pushing the NIMBY, anti any building over four storeys, "I'm well set up in my suburban semi-d and I drive everywhere so leave Dublin as it is" attitude.

Agree but it's not really **** stirring, it's playing to their audience.

cgcsb

RTÉ went with same headline. Their report hardly mentioned anything about the project other than tree cutting and front gardens, no mention of journey time or frequency improvements. No mention of improved safety. They had Dublin Cycling Campaign on complaining that the design at junctions appears less than ideal, perhaps because the designs don't show at this level separate signaling for protected cycle lanes. If it were rural or suburban road project they'd have the party poppers out and Dublin Cycling campaign wouldn't be asked for comment.

Pete_Cavan

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I note that the Irish Times headline is followed with the tagline of "Project would entail cutting of some 3,000 trees and be completed by 2027" :rolleyes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/busconnects-final-plans-for-16-dublin-bus-corridors-published-1.4400026

The Irish Times is such a ****sturring rag sometimes, finds the negative in anything that progresses Dublin into a modern European capital. Always pushing the NIMBY, anti any building over four storeys, "I'm well set up in my suburban semi-d and I drive everywhere so leave Dublin as it is" attitude.

Seth Brundle

I note that the Irish Times headline is followed with the tagline of "Project would entail cutting of some 3,000 trees and be completed by 2027" :rolleyes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/busconnects-final-plans-for-16-dublin-bus-corridors-published-1.4400026

cgcsb

Haven't a chance to fully review yet. Seems almost identical to the previous iteration, biggest difference is the Leeson St bus Gate, there seems to be a more pedestrian/orientated solution in Stoneybatter with busgates now at both ends and they seem to have flip flopped on making Brunswick St Cyclist only at the Stoneybatter end, seems to encourage drivers to use this as a route to Stoneybatter coming from the south. Not sure what I make of it overall, will update later.

Edit:
-Continuous bike lanes through Thomas St with bus priority signals replacing a bus lane.

The most concerning part of the scheme is that we have no site on the 2 most important parts:
1)Enforcement of the proposed and existing bus priority measures and
2)Integrated ticketing.

Without these 2 key things the whole scheme kind of unravels.

Heartbreak Hank

Anyone any hot takes on this?

https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/core-bus-corridor/

LXFlyer

yascaoimhin wrote: »

At a meeting with Engineers Ireland last year, the Bus Connects team said that once planning for the Radial Corridors is complete the Orbital corridors will begin design.

Obviously there's sections fo road that cant fit bus, bike and car lanes, in which case bikes and buses will be prioritised.

I know that - I was there too.

The relevant point to the person that I was responding to is that the orbital infrastructure works will not take place until significantly after the introduction of the revised network.

Some of the inner routes are to operate along roads which will see general traffic from the radials diverted onto due to one way systems etc. and I referenced three above. The planners did concur with that issue at the meeting.

That’s going to make priority for the inner orbital routes difficult to deliver.