The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Is this really so difficult to understand?

The problem with the SF plan is that you have to take it as a whole. Let's pretend they have the best housing policy in the world, that is absolutely useless if accompanied by brain dead and naive plans which SF have clearly shown that they have.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which do you think,going on the posting here is a more pressing issue,the pemsion issue or the thoysands on homeless lists and the estimated 400K people in the renttrap of being unable to afford anymore increases and almost no savings

Like it may sound blasé but only 1 seems a looming issue to.me anyway

Again I am using the pension age as an example of their stupidity, anyway naive enough to believe what Mary Lou does will not be solving homelessness or people being in rent traps.

christy c wrote: »

I am using their pension plan as an example of their stupidity (there's plenty more), and saying that if they are stupid enough to believe that, then they won't be solving any of the issues you mention.

They want to, though. Or at least they say they want to.

Neither of the other two parties even say they want to. The most recent party we had in government told my generation that we should be "excited" at the horrific downgrade of paying more than we do now in rent for studio apartments, for bedrooms with a kitchen shared between 40 strangers (Bartra's horrific Dun Laoghaire plan - radically altered by ABP when appealed, but the FG government were totally ok with the original proposal).

Again, to use my doctor and bleeding wound analogy, suppose you had three doctors - two of whom refused to sew up your wound, and the third of whom was offering to try, but had a bad record of botching other surgeries.

If you're facing certain death by bleeding out and 2/3 doctors are refusing to do anything to fix it, you're going to go with the one who has offered to at least try. Even if their previous surgeries were disastrous, assuming your claims regarding SF's pension age policy are accurate which as I say I don't want to get into tonight as I haven't looked it up. Even if you're right, the fact is that if you know you're about to bleed to death and only one out of three doctors is willing to sew up your wound rather than let you bleed out, you're going to choose that one to operate on you. Every other factor rapidly becomes irrelevant.

And by the way, their pension plan will affect you. If we follow the SF plan, you will have the double whammy of paying higher taxes now to fund current pensioners, plus the exciting prospect of no or a drastically reduced pension by the time you hit pension age.

None of that is going to matter to anyone who ends up dying by suicide long before they reach pension age because their lives have utterly and completely fallen apart. Do you have any idea what it's like for people to have to move back into their family home on the other side of the country after spending ten years building an independent life for themselves? This is happening to tens of thousands of young Irish people. Now. Today. Happening. You might call it naive and short sighted, but to go back to the doctor analogy, let's assume that sewing up the wound now, today, will have a side effect of likely causing you to develop skin cancer in thirty years because of the material used.

Don't you think you'd still probably take that risk given that the alternative is bleeding to death here, now, today?

christy c wrote: »

The problem with the SF plan is that you have to take it as a whole. Let's pretend they have the best housing policy in the world, that is absolutely useless if accompanied by brain dead and naive plans which SF have clearly shown that they have.

Not for most of my generation, it isn't. You clearly don't realise just how much of an emergency the rent inflation really is if you don't understand that my generation would, for the most part, be willing to put up with a whole pile of utterly horrific government policies if that was the price to pay for removing the boot of crucifying rent prices from their backs.

Many in my generation were happier and better off during the recession because rents were so low compared to today. That's despite the unemployment or under-employment which most faced. The cost of living relative to income was so much lower that it wasn't as horrible a situation to be in.

[Deleted User]

christy c wrote: »

Again I am using the pension age as an example of their stupidity, anyway naive enough to believe what Mary Lou does will not be solving homelessness or people being in rent traps.

Respectfully il disagree,

Build Social housing is the solution....we have councils buying up housing and crediting it as social housing....this deosnt increase,the supply of housing,only decreases supply of housing for rent.....if you increase the supply side of rental market,and reduce the demand (by taking HAP receipants out of market into social housing),basic econmics tells you prices will fall

@hatrickpatrick. Look, I know there are problems, and i said that i understand why someone would vote SF. But using your doctor analogy, I'm asking what hope they have of stopping the bleeding? Given that they thought the cancer tumour would look after itself. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not for most of my generation, it isn't. You clearly don't realise just how much of an emergency the rent inflation really is if you don't understand that my generation would, for the most part, be willing to put up with a whole pile of utterly horrific government policies if that was the price to pay for removing the boot of crucifying rent prices from their backs.

Many in my generation were happier and better off during the recession because rents were so low compared to today. That's despite the unemployment or under-employment which most faced. The cost of living relative to income was so much lower that it wasn't as horrible a situation to be in.

What horrific policies would they be willing to put up with? How many of your generation (i think I'm around the same age as you) were happy when they didn't have a job during the recession? Or had to emigrate?

But why is the choice the status quo or lunacy proposed by the likes of Pearse Doherty? Why not radically different housing plus some sane policies to accompany it?

christy c wrote: »

@hatrickpatrick. Look, I know there are problems, and i said that i understand why someone would vote SF. But using your doctor analogy, I'm asking what hope they have of stopping the bleeding? Given that they thought the cancer tumour would look after itself. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

christy c wrote: »

What horrific policies would they be willing to put up with? How many of your generation (i think I'm around the same age as you) were happy when they didn't have a job during the recession? Or had to emigrate?

Nobody was happy under those circumstances. Many were still a lot happier than they are now. Friends of mine could afford to live close to Dublin City Centre on part time shop worker incomes in flat shares with one or two others back in 2013. Many of these people have been forced to move home with their families despite now working full time hours in proper careers as opposed to student jobs, because the rate of rent inflation has outstripped income so horrifically fast. Every single one of those people is voting for Sinn Fein.

But why is the choice the status quo or lunacy proposed by the likes of Pearse Doherty? Why not radically different housing plus some sane policies to accompany it?

Because Sinn Fein are currently the only party advocating for this, who haven't utterly burned their trust with this generation by betraying them. Many SF supporters I know would vote for another party with the same radical leftist housing policies without SF's baggage in the morning if such a party existed, but at the moment it simply doesn't. As I've mentioned before, Sol-PBP isn't seen as viable by many in my generation (something I disagree with personally, but it is what it is) and the only untested option left is the SocDems, which I've repeatedly acknowledged I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm for.

Let me ask you a question: If you were one of the people I'm talking about, which party would you vote for? If your priority was affordable housing and you'd ruled out FF, FG, Green and Labour because they had repeatedly betrayed their election promises to you over the past decade - who would you turn to as your next attempt to vote for someone who would turn things around? Out of the current choices, what's left? Most young people won't vote for independents (again, something I disagree with but there you go) so what else would you do if you were one of the people I described in my examples?

You keep asking "why SF" but you don't seem willing to acknowledge that if one wants a radical leftist sledgehammer taken to the current housing model, there's no one else to vote for.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

As I said numerous times, I understand why they would vote for SF.

But using your analogy again, say SF want to treat your wound with an angle grinder, followed by an intensive session with a chainsaw. Do you agree that is the way forward? Or can you acknowledge that maybe we don't volunteer for something so stupid and instead see if doctor 1 or 2 do something, or hope that a 4th doctor enters the room, or do 99 other things that sounds better? I think you are underestimating the nonsense SF have come out with over the years.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody was happy under those circumstances. Many were still a lot happier than they are now. Friends of mine could afford to live close to Dublin City Centre on part time shop worker incomes in flat shares with one or two others back in 2013. Many of these people have been forced to move home with their families despite now working full time hours in proper careers as opposed to student jobs, because the rate of rent inflation has outstripped income so horrifically fast. Every single one of those people is voting for Sinn Fein.

Because Sinn Fein are currently the only party advocating for this, who haven't utterly burned their trust with this generation by betraying them. Many SF supporters I know would vote for another party with the same radical leftist housing policies without SF's baggage in the morning if such a party existed, but at the moment it simply doesn't. As I've mentioned before, Sol-PBP isn't seen as viable by many in my generation (something I disagree with personally, but it is what it is) and the only untested option left is the SocDems, which I've repeatedly acknowledged I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm for.

Let me ask you a question: If you were one of the people I'm talking about, which party would you vote for? If your priority was affordable housing and you'd ruled out FF, FG, Green and Labour because they had repeatedly betrayed their election promises to you over the past decade - who would you turn to as your next attempt to vote for someone who would turn things around? Out of the current choices, what's left? Most young people won't vote for independents (again, something I disagree with but there you go) so what else would you do if you were one of the people I described in my examples?

You keep asking "why SF" but you don't seem willing to acknowledge that if one wants a radical leftist sledgehammer taken to the current housing model, there's no one else to vote for.

Again I've said multiple times that I understand why someone would vote SF.

Well anyone who had a trade and could not find any work at all in the recession were not happier.
If I was someone paying extortionate rent, and working in say, a multinational that SF wanted to give the two fingers to, then I would not be voting SF. Even if I did not work in a multinational, I would know the importance of them and not vote SF. Maybe an independent, who knows.

But why not give the message to SF, we want the sledge hammer, but p!ss off with your other populist nonsense. This way they are only going to accelerate down this path.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

Sinn Fein's policies will solve the homeless issue, but not in the way that they or you intend.

Once they have destroyed the economy, the resumption of emigration will ensure that the remaining homeless can be housed in the empty houses up and down the country.

A sad outcome, but one which they will trumpet as a success.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein's policies will solve the homeless issue, but not in the way that they or you intend.

Once they have destroyed the economy, the resumption of emigration will ensure that the remaining homeless can be housed in the empty houses up and down the country.

A sad outcome, but one which they will trumpet as a success.

In your opinion!

This has been another great few days for SF and they never had to do anything.

The country has now seen FF are not fit to run a bath never mind a country and FGs leader is corrupt and the rest of FG don't care or are too scared to say anything.

I'd say Mary Lou had a few glasses of wine with a big smile last night

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the point of this econmic sucess if people cant afford to live here

60% population live in households earning under 60K per annum....average house price is circa 300K.......a schoolchild can see,this is unsustainable

People lives are being effected by this,and we are told to.suck it up and not vote for those wanting to sort it??

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/house-prices-in-ireland-decline-for-first-time-since-2012-1.4126842#:~:text=The%20property%20website's%20latest%20survey,decline%20on%20the%20third%20quarter.

I can't find your 60% under 60k statistic, but you are wrong about average house prices - they are only €250k not €300k, makes a big difference to your figures.

Idbatterim

They wont touch the pittance known as lpt, its a toxic time bomb politically. About a euro a day or so for an average property... years of dancing around that, to avoid political fallout and backlash , mainly from the elderly

But seemingly no amount of money or rental increases is enough for the poor and workimlng poor to have to accept.

Then you have the sacred cows of the free houses for life, medical card, welfare chrostmas bonus. No womlnder one group are fcuked! Its immoral and disgusting. I stopped posting in these forums for ages, because time will tell what will happen and its an echo chamber. One of the primary reasons is, i am as good as certain sf will win the most seats next election, based primarily on housing ( exact same scenario as last time, except come the next election, the housing issue will be even worse) the question then is though, will we simply get another ffg crap or will one of them go in with sf. A point will come, when they wont be able to ignore true impact this is having on hundreds of thousands peoples lives..

One other thing, if the media werent beholden to property and the advertiding revenue, there woukd be a different narrative and I think this situation woukd have totally boiled over by now...

Yeah_Right

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Jesus Christ. You talk as if these people are voting for SF so they can have an extra holiday in the summer and not literally because they are under threat of losing their home and their hard earned independence. Are you seriously that unaware of what's happening to the rent generation right now?

When you talk about your generation, is it 20s to early 30s?
You mentioned that you had friends who are paying €1650 for a 1 bedroom flat. Why don't they house share? I did that into my early 30s. Had a great big place in Ranelagh with a few others. We were each paying between €600 and €750 plus bills. If we had wanted to live on our own in that neighbourhood, it would have cost a lot more. Or we could move somewhere further out and pay less.

Above you made the comment about an extra summer holiday. How about not taking a summer holiday for a few years and saving some money for a mortgage? Its called making sacrifices to achieve your goals. Rather than expecting me to pay for your lifestyle.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

When you talk about your generation, is it 20s to early 30s?
You mentioned that you had friends who are paying €1650 for a 1 bedroom flat. Why don't they house share? I did that into my early 30s. Had a great big place in Ranelagh with a few others. We were each paying between €600 and €750 plus bills. If we had wanted to live on our own in that neighbourhood, it would have cost a lot more. Or we could move somewhere further out and pay less.

Above you made the comment about an extra summer holiday. How about not taking a summer holiday for a few years and saving some money for a mortgage? Its called making sacrifices to achieve your goals. Rather than expecting me to pay for your lifestyle.

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

More fool you, I've been on loads holidays and have a 4 bed house with both me and my partner earning 40,000 a year.

I didn't have a car so bought close to the town so I wouldn't have to pay for a bus, sensible decisions ya see

Just because you choose to live in the suburbs don't meant ****e, you could have lived closer to town or bought a smaller house.

I've never went skiing, must try it

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent

Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change

People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent

Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change

People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

It's just more of the 'get up earlier' arrogance coming out. With a fair amount of fingers in the ears 'we know best' arrogance too.

It has been their undoing in the last election and as Hatrickpatrick has pointed out, they have dug in on it and will suffer more for it.

Nobotty

Was there ever a connection between a fine gael voter like Blanch and a Sinn Féin voter though
Chalk and cheese
Completely different ideologies
Whats playing out in these pages is not normal life unless both canvass in their opposing sides heartlands at election time which doesn't happen
Not where I am anyway
I'm starting to like the tit for tat after all

Fascinating as Spock would say

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

More fool you, I've been on loads holidays and have a 4 bed house with both me and my partner earning 40,000 a year.

I didn't have a car so bought close to the town so I wouldn't have to pay for a bus, sensible decisions ya see

Just because you choose to live in the suburbs don't meant ****e, you could have lived closer to town or bought a smaller house.

I've never went skiing, must try it

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent

Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change

People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

Who the fcuk is dunfalkfc10,or what relevence has that to anything???

Mate,you can either take on constructive critism,explainations why people adbandoning tradional parties or dismiss them out of hand and console yourself with your own flawed version of reality,it deosnt bother me either way

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

you are more out of touch with reality that both the greens and fg combined