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Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Graham

Continued from here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058041687

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cnocbui

PropQueries wrote: »

Well if I'm right, the small residential investor landlord in Ireland is going to be paying on the double for not getting his documentation in order as of today i.e. 1. the big domestic and international residential property investors will soak up all the available cash allocated under the long-term leasing initiative long before they get a look-in and there won't be any cash left for the small time residential property investor by the time he does get his documentation in order and, 2. his taxes on rental income, property taxes, income taxes etc. will rise to meet the ongoing cost of these long-term leasing initiatives.

I really don't care. Ireland is a lost cause and I am in the process of trying to get out ASAP. The last thing I would ever think of is investing here, so the prospects for private landlords are of no interest to me.

brisan

cnocbui wrote: »

That article is pay walled.

I am fed up hearing about all these supposedly vacant houses. I want to see advocates of their existense and suitability to go find 20 of them, post pics and specs and then make their case. Not just look at some numbers on a screen and invent fairy stories of lovely turn-key properties, good to go, hoarded by misers and property price manipulators..

If, as I suspect, they require significant capital injections to make them habitable, then they aren't exactly what people are making them out to be.

https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/residential-property-for-rent/?advanced=1&cc_id=ct1&ignored_agents%5B0%5D=1551&s%5Badvanced%5D=1&s%5Bignored_agents%5D%5B0%5D=1551&s%5Bsort_by%5D=price&s%5Bsort_type%5D=d&searchSource=rental
Probably a few on this list of nearly 3000

brisan

PropQueries wrote: »

It’s because just like the government believes it should get its cut from your hard work, property investors believe they should get a similar cut.

It is funny how they say “but you earn so much money”. What’s that got to do with the price a young person should pay for a property?

Young people are also not going to get a pension so that should also be factored into the “disposable income” debate.

Why not ??

cnocbui

brisan wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/residential-property-for-rent/?advanced=1&cc_id=ct1&ignored_agents%5B0%5D=1551&s%5Badvanced%5D=1&s%5Bignored_agents%5D%5B0%5D=1551&s%5Bsort_by%5D=price&s%5Bsort_type%5D=d&searchSource=rental
Probably a few on this list of nearly 3000

Can't imagine why any of those aren't already snapped up. /s

Something available for rent should not be included in any classification of 'vacant' properties.

brisan

cnocbui wrote: »

I really don't care. Ireland is a lost cause and I am in the process of trying to get out ASAP. The last thing I would ever think of is investing here, so the prospects for private landlords are of no interest to me.

Have to agree
IMO Ireland is knackered and will be for the foreseeable future
FFG are going from bad to worse and WHEN SF get in it will only go downhill

Claw Hammer

cnocbui wrote: »

Can't imagine why any of those aren't already snapped up. /s

Something available for rent should not be included in any classification of 'vacant' properties.

I know someone who used to put his property on daft at 3 times the market rent, in order to ensure no on asked for a viewing. It was very common when daft allowed properties to be listed indefinitely without charge after the first payment.

PropQueries

brisan wrote: »

Why not ??

Latest I could find - at the end of 2015: "Unfunded (pay-as-you-go) government managed schemes, which do not appear in the core national accounts, were estimated at €345.5bn or 79% of the total liability"

Source CSO: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eipl/eipl2015/eipl/

I don't think we are in a better shape today.

cnocbui

brisan wrote: »

Have to agree
IMO Ireland is knackered and will be for the foreseeable future
FFG are going from bad to worse and WHEN SF get in it will only go downhill

I disagree about your last pont, SF is the only hope for change by shaking the tree. No political party can f'up a country in one term. It would take SF getting in to have the other two mirror images wonder why SF won and take a hard look at themselves and perhaps consider serving the best interests of the people, for a change, instead of themselves and US multinational tax crooks.

You have to stir the pot sometimes to stop the stufff sticking to the bottom. This put needs stirring.

SF was the only party last time to actually propose a tax cut.

thefridge2006

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I know someone who used to put his property on daft at 3 times the market rent, in order to ensure no on asked for a viewing. It was very common when daft allowed properties to be listed indefinitely without charge after the first payment.

Why did they do that? what was the logic?

brisan

cnocbui wrote: »

I disagree about your last pont, SF is the only hope for change by shaking the tree. No political party can f'up a country in one term. It would take SF getting in to have the other two mirror images wonder why SF won and take a hard look at themselves and perhaps consider serving the best interests of the people, for a change, instead of themselves and US multinational tax crooks.

You have to stir the pot sometimes to stop the stufff sticking to the bottom. This put needs stirring.

SF was the only party last time to actually propose a tax cut.

I think SF would stir up the pot especially around housing and tax on MNCs ,and that may be a good thing
Even half of Apples 13 billion would build a lot of houses
However it is what they would do to what they consider the wealthy in our population that worries me
And by wealthy I mean anybody earning over 40k

[Deleted User]

cnocbui wrote: »

I disagree about your last pont, SF is the only hope for change by shaking the tree...............

SF was the only party last time to actually propose a tax cut.

Easy to make proposals based on magic fairy economics.

brisan

Augeo wrote: »

Easy to make proposals based on magic fairy economics.

To be fair to SF ,FFG have found the magic money tree that SF claimed they would borrow from and FFG said did not exist

PropQueries

cnocbui wrote: »

I disagree about your last pont, SF is the only hope for change by shaking the tree. No political party can f'up a country in one term. It would take SF getting in to have the other two mirror images wonder why SF won and take a hard look at themselves and perhaps consider serving the best interests of the people, for a change, instead of themselves and US multinational tax crooks.

You have to stir the pot sometimes to stop the stufff sticking to the bottom. This put needs stirring.

SF was the only party last time to actually propose a tax cut.

I would have agreed with your point last year. But, now unfortunately, by the time this Government's term is finished, there will be no money left in the pot to do anything. They're already planning to sign away any chance of fixing the housing market with their 25 year lease terms paying at last years ridiculous rents that even the build-to-rent crowd couldn't rent them out at to the highest paid people in Google etc.

We're effectively bankrupt and there's nothing any future Government can do except raise taxes and cut services indefinitely. If I was SF and got a majority in the next election, I wouldn't touch forming a government with the proverbial barge pole.

Springy Turf

cnocbui wrote: »

SF was the only party last time to actually propose a tax cut.

Sinn Fein's entire reason for existence is to achieve a socialist 32 country republic. They also have a huge property portfolio.

Their stated goal is incompatible with tax cuts in the long run, but of course they have no qualms with offering free houses and tax cuts in the same breath.

And thats all ignoring the whole army council thing.

fliball123

brisan wrote: »

I think SF would stir up the pot especially around housing and tax on MNCs ,and that may be a good thing
Even half of Apples 13 billion would build a lot of houses
However it is what they would do to what they consider the wealthy in our population that worries me
And by wealthy I mean anybody earning over 40k

Yeah and then watch all the MNCs re-evaluate where they decide to set up their Euro head quarters. Remember the MNCs also pay tax for each employee they hire not to mention the employee paying tax as well. If Sinn Fein start fecking around in that are it may well spell the end of Ireland. You only have to look at the differential between our GDP and our GNP to see how much money they bring in.

Springy Turf

brisan wrote: »

To be fair to SF ,FFG have found the magic money tree that SF claimed they would borrow from and FFG said did not exist

I agree with you to some degree, but the environment for borrowing, as well as the EU monetary policy couldn't be any further away from the austerity policies of the past.

[Deleted User]

brisan wrote: »

To be fair to SF ,FFG have found the magic money tree that SF claimed they would borrow from and FFG said did not exist

Covid has changed the financial landscape.

SF were going to borrow to fund tax cuts and all the other stuff in their proposals in preCovid times ............ that's not financially prudent........ it has to be paid back sometime.

If SP were in charge for the last few years they may well have found markets not too keen on lending them anything once Covid came along.

SF are very appealing to the yellow vest brigade.

Idbatterim

Springy Turf wrote: »

Sinn Fein's entire reason for existence is to achieve a socialist 32 country republic. They also have a huge property portfolio.

Their stated goal is incompatible with tax cuts in the long run, but of course they have no qualms with offering free houses and tax cuts in the same breath.

And thats all ignoring the whole army council thing.

so no different to FFG except they want the 32 county republic more than FFG?

Idbatterim

Augeo wrote: »

Covid has changed the financial landscape.

SF were going to borrow to fund tax cuts and all the other stuff in their proposals in preCovid times ............ that's not financially prudent........ it has to be paid back sometime.

If SP were in charge for the last few years they may well have found markets not too keen on lending them anything once Covid came along.

SF are very appealing to the yellow vest brigade.

disagree, they would have won the most seats last election if they ran more candidates DURING A BOOM! how many do you see at the protests here? a handful, anything but a handful voted for SF at the last election. FFG with their insane and disgraceful handling of the property farce, will be putting SF into power! thats the irony of it, its the establishment failing over decades, that puts the likes of trump, johnson into these positions...

free housing for those that never vote or certainly wouldnt vote for FFG, FG in particular. While they lie about rewarding workers etc and home ownership becomes ever more challenging or impossible for many early risers, absolutely disgraceful and pathetic!

Is FFG not increasing the pension age prudent? they have just done that to the tune of hundreds of millions a year! I can make my own mind up at this stage, FFG talking about economic management and prudence, is like Hitler talking about human rights!

PropQueries

Springy Turf wrote: »

I agree with you to some degree, but the environment for borrowing, as well as the EU monetary policy couldn't be any further away from the austerity policies of the past.

In 2012, our debt servicing costs were €6.47 Billion.

In 2019 our debt servicing costs were €5.27 Billion.

This narrative put out that this time is different and that our debt servicing costs have reduced dramatically over the years is not borne out by the difference in the cost of servicing our national debt between 2012 and 2019.

The only reason our Government remained solvent was the unforeseen increases in corporate tax revenues between 2014 and 2019.

If these revenues were unforeseen on the way in, they will be unforeseen when they are on the way out. If these multinationals can move their profits in here quickly, they can move them out just as quick.

Springy Turf

Idbatterim wrote: »

so no different to FFG except they want the 32 county republic more than FFG?

You think Fine Gael want a Socialist Republic?

silver2020

Idbatterim wrote: »

so no different to FFG except they want the 32 county republic more than FFG?

what does an argument about SF/IRA have to do with Irish property market 2020

If you want to champion SF/IRA then go to the politics forum

[Deleted User]

Idbatterim wrote: »

disagree, they would have won the most seats last election if they ran more candidates DURING A BOOM! how many do you see at the protests here?...........

By yellow vest brigade I refer to anyone who swallows SF populist horsesh1t.

Do you disagree with the rest of my post or just the yellow vest part?

Augeo wrote: »

Covid has changed the financial landscape.

SF were going to borrow to fund tax cuts and all the other stuff in their proposals in preCovid times ............ that's not financially prudent........ it has to be paid back sometime.

If SP were in charge for the last few years they may well have found markets not too keen on lending them anything once Covid came along.

SF are very appealing to the yellow vest brigade.

Every adult without their own property seems to reckon it's the gubernments fault.

Idbatterim

Augeo wrote: »

By yellow vest brigade I refer to anyone who swallows SF populist horsesh1t.

well seeing as they would have won the most seats, had they run more candidates, thats quite a sizeable chunk!

[Deleted User]

Idbatterim wrote: »

well seeing as they would have won the most seats, had they run more candidates, thats quite a sizeable chunk!

Yes, it's quite alarming there are so many gnomes out there tbh but such is life. Promises are easy. As was seen after the election SF had no interest in forming a government so you can wait and see how many candidates they run next time

Idbatterim

Augeo wrote: »

By yellow vest brigade I refer to anyone who swallows SF populist horsesh1t.

Do you disagree with the rest of my post or just the yellow vest part?

Every adult without their own property seems to reckon it's the gubernments fault.

of course choosing to have rip off housing, appalling planning policies and giving away housing for free is the governments choice! who's choice do you think it is? early riser martyrs thinking they are doing their bit for the reich, sorry republic and supreme leader varadkar?

I mean look at the financial mismanagement FFG come up with (one example) covid payment of E350, even if you were only on 80 etc a week before, that is prudent is it? if SF implemented that, well...

[Deleted User]

Idbatterim wrote: »

of course choosing to have rip off housing, appalling planning policies and giving away housing for free is the governments choice! who's choice do you think it is? early riser martyrs thinking they are doing their bit for the reich, sorry republic and supreme leader varadkar?

..

You reckon SF won't give away housing for free?

Idbatterim wrote: »

...........I mean look at the financial mismanagement FFG come up with (one example) covid payment of E350, even if you were only on 80 etc a week before, that is prudent is it? if SF implemented that, well...

It got money to everyone that lost their work quickly. Some benefitted disproportionately and iirc SF were b1tching and moaning at any steps to fine tune the process

SF wanted anyone who got the €350 to keep on receiving it FFS

Why did you never buy a house may I ask?

PropQueries

Augeo wrote: »

You reckon SF won't give away housing for free?

It got money to everyone that lost their work quickly. Some benefitted disproportionately and iirc SF were b1tching and moaning at any steps to fine tune the process SF wanted anyone who got the €350 to keep on receiving it FFS

Why did you never buy a house may I ask?

The FFG government didn't give anyone €350 per week. They raided the surplus in the PRSI fund which is meant to pay for the future pensions of the people that are receiving it. They also raided the rainy day fund.

"Opposition parties have accused the government of stacking the odds in favour of raising the pension age to 67 next January by “raiding” the social insurance fund to pay the pandemic unemployment payment (PUP). The Department of Social Protection has confirmed that billions of euros’ worth of PUPs are to be recouped from the social insurance fund following the passage of new legislation last week. The Social Welfare (Covid-19) (Amendment) Bill 2020 defined the PUP “as a social insurance benefit”, which means all payments until next April will come from the social insurance fund and much of the €3bn already paid out can be clawed back."

Link here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/state-pension-fund-raided-to-pay-for-pandemic-unemployment-payments-j6h7gbswx

It raises a very important question on exactly where the c. €40 Billion they intend to borrow this year and next year to pay for Covid-19 expenses is actually really going as it's not going on PUP payments or anything that actually benefits the workers the state put out of a job.

Idbatterim

Augeo wrote: »

You reckon SF won't give away housing for free?

It got money to everyone that lost their work quickly. Some benefitted disproportionately and iirc SF were b1tching and moaning at any steps to fine tune the process SF wanted anyone who got the €350 to keep on receiving it FFS

Why did you never buy a house may I ask?

Oh I reckon they will give the housing away for free alright, no party he will touch that! But they may start state house building again or do something about the property farce. No party will ever address the PS, the waste, health etc. The one thing that might be solved, which is everyones biggest expense by a mile, is a roof over their head, Ill give them a chance, as will hundreds of thousands of others & I would probably typically be seen as the last person that would ever vote FG. We dont even have a centre or centre right party that I can vote for here!

Because I invested in something that requires ongoing investment until ready, when it will return exponentially more than I have invested in it. The irony of free accommodation in luxury apartments in Dundrum, that I frequently walk past, while those in dated apartment buildings nearby a fortune in rent, isnt lost on me!

Graham

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folks, a reminder this is the accommodation & property forum - Irish Property Market 2020 thread.

Please take the political debate to the appropriate forum.

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