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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Bazzo

WhoamI2022 wrote: »

I am talking about the coach’s, not the fans. Both Cooney and Marmion for whatever reason don’t seem to be a favourite of the coach’s. When they have a chance they drop them for whatever reason

Well not really, you said that the coaches know what they're doing therefore "that suggests" Marmion and Cooney aren't good enough for international rugby. In Marmion's case there is very compelling stone cold evidence that he's "good enough" for international rugby. Schmidt also went through a fair patch of putting a lot of trust in him around the same time when he filled in on the wing a couple of times and did very well defensively.

WhoamI2022

Bazzo wrote: »

Except we have solid evidence that Marmion is good enough for international rugby because he's started and done well in 2 of the 3 toughest possible tests: England and New Zealand.

I am talking about the coach’s, not the fans. Both Cooney and Marmion for whatever reason don’t seem to be a favourite of the coach’s. When they have a chance they drop them for whatever reason

Bazzo

WhoamI2022 wrote: »

Ireland has had two head coach’s and a number of different coaching teams over the last few years. None of them seem convinced by Cooney and Marmion has only played when no choice.

Similar can be said for Ross Byrne as well

I think we have to assume these coach’s who are some of the best in the World know a thing or two about players. This would suggest Cooney and Marmion are just not good enough for international rugby.

Except we have solid evidence that Marmion is good enough for international rugby because he's started and done well in 2 of the 3 toughest possible tests: England and New Zealand.

shootermacg

molloyjh wrote: »

I dont think anyone has a clue what your issue actually is tbh. Its not exactly like you've maintained a consistent position or elaborated on anything. It's just more of the same even though its different. Its a disappointing selection even though you have no issues with any selection in particular. Its about the coach being too afraid to be different even though he has been.

God, I remember the molloyjh that was preaching peace and love not so long ago......

Sabre0001

This French game will be a good indicator of if our overall game plan has changed - they didn't look good under the high ball against Wales and they're not a team to be throwing misplaced offloads around.

Think we'll see a lot more box kicks, willingness to slow the game down, and go through more phases, and pressure them into giving penalties. Maybe a hybrid of the Schmidt and Farrell approach depending on the situation.

Buer

Ah. I see Ouncer is back!

WhoamI2022

Ireland has had two head coach’s and a number of different coaching teams over the last few years. None of them seem convinced by Cooney and Marmion has only played when no choice.

Similar can be said for Ross Byrne as well

I think we have to assume these coach’s who are some of the best in the World know a thing or two about players. This would suggest Cooney and Marmion are just not good enough for international rugby.

Dog Botherer

Bazzo wrote: »

Marmion has been in the squad from the start, Cooney was called in as injury cover.

ah yeah my mistake.

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Folks keep going on about international experience. And at the end of the day it has nothing got to do with that. It has to do with a bunch of players who are pulled together for a number of weeks each year and a coach has little to no options. But the coach has try some options. That's what makes one coach different to another. And that why farrell is just schmidt again. The inability to try that option

what if Marmion was just crap in training.

ElisaAtWar

Bazzo wrote: »

Marmion has been in the squad from the start, Cooney was called in as injury cover.

Folks keep going on about international experience. And at the end of the day it has nothing got to do with that. It has to do with a bunch of players who are pulled together for a number of weeks each year and a coach has little to no options. But the coach has try some options. That's what makes one coach different to another. And that why farrell is just schmidt again. The inability to try that option

Bazzo

Dog Botherer wrote: »

our options at FB are either play a moderately experienced winger out of position, or play a FB with little to no international experience. not great, on balance.

Sexton is still better than Byrne, it’s a must win, play your best player. JGP has been excellent since the return, hard to argue with his spot. Marmion and Blade have also been good but Blade isn’t much more experienced than JGP at this level and Marmion was only called into the squad as injury cover so not surprising he isn’t involved really.

Marmion has been in the squad from the start, Cooney was called in as injury cover.

[Deleted User]

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

If nothing else Conor Murray has to bite the bullet. Folks thought he was great against Italy. He hardly box kicked at all. But what folks missed is how slow his deliveries were never mind he wouldn't challenge an AIL backline these days. Did you notice the way JGP popped a ball behind the offensive line shortly after he came on. Murray has done nothing and will do nothing. And I hate saying that but he has clearly lost his confidence. So now I picked on a player and said he really isn't up to par. Hope that makes you feel better

So by nothing has changed do you mean that one player that you don't believe should be picked is being picked

ElisaAtWar

aloooof wrote: »

I still haven’t seen you provide a single detail on what you think needs to change.

If nothing else Conor Murray has to bite the bullet. Folks thought he was great against Italy. He hardly box kicked at all. But what folks missed is how slow his deliveries were never mind he wouldn't challenge an AIL backline these days. Did you notice the way JGP popped a ball behind the offensive line shortly after he came on. Murray has done nothing and will do nothing. And I hate saying that but he has clearly lost his confidence. So now I picked on a player and said he really isn't up to par. Hope that makes you feel better

aloooof

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

There is an outrage issue thomond. But I guess it needs to be played out in front of people's eyes before they can finally see it

I still haven’t seen you provide a single detail on what you think needs to change.

ElisaAtWar

There is an outrage issue thomond. But I guess it needs to be played out in front of people's eyes before they can finally see it

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

I dont think anyone has a clue what your issue actually is tbh. Its not exactly like you've maintained a consistent position or elaborated on anything. It's just more of the same even though its different. Its a disappointing selection even though you have no issues with any selection in particular. Its about the coach being too afraid to be different even though he has been.

I believe we have a term for this.

OUTRAGE

aloooof

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

But I thought I had said something. And it is a forum and we are all allowed our opinions. What part of my opinion did you miss. You seem to believe me as a misery guts when you know we have all seen this before. How many more times do you need to be reminded before it hits home

You are allowed your own opinions, but you’re not allowed your own facts.

We have seen more passes per phases, more offloads, a change to personnel and a reduction in box kicks. All of this, by any of objective measure, is a change to how Joe played.

Again, what you’re saying is just not based in fact or reality.

molloyjh

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

But I thought I had said something. And it is a forum and we are all allowed our opinions. What part of my opinion did you miss. You seem to believe me as a misery guts when you know we have all seen this before. How many more times do you need to be reminded before it hits home

When did Joe last employ a 1-3-3-2 system?

molloyjh

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

My issue is not with any individual player

I dont think anyone has a clue what your issue actually is tbh. Its not exactly like you've maintained a consistent position or elaborated on anything. It's just more of the same even though its different. Its a disappointing selection even though you have no issues with any selection in particular. Its about the coach being too afraid to be different even though he has been.

ElisaAtWar

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah great. Another poster who can't elaborate on their point, moves the goalposts, refuses to engage in discussion (on a discussion forum, seriously whats the point of that) and regardless of very real holes being shown in their opinion is incapable changing.

I've said this before, but I'll never understand some peoples insistence on being so miserable about stuff. It must make enjoying anything so much more difficult. Why watch a sport if you can't enjoy it???

But I thought I had said something. And it is a forum and we are all allowed our opinions. What part of my opinion did you miss. You seem to believe me as a misery guts when you know we have all seen this before. How many more times do you need to be reminded before it hits home

realhorrorshow

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I don't accept that argument for one second molloyjh. Anyway it's not about being different. It's clear what Andy Farrell wants to do which is a Joe schmidt replica of no change. And we will suffer for this perspective until we have someone brave enough who decides to change it

Some good analysis on the changes Farrell has made here: https://youtu.be/xIskt2KKTEo

molloyjh

aloooof wrote: »

Ya, sorry Elisa, this is nonsense.

We’ve seen a change in personnel.
A reduction on box kicks.
Am increase in offloads.
An increase in passes per phase.

All of this is quite a distinct change to what we saw under Joe. What you’re saying is just not based in reality.

We've also moved away from a possession heavy game that looks to use incredible accuracy to wear teams down. Instead we are using width a lot more and a system that allows a lot more freedom for players to play what's in front of them. Thats as fundamental a change as we can get really.

sydthebeat

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I don't accept that argument for one second molloyjh. Anyway it's not about being different. It's clear what Andy Farrell wants to do which is a Joe schmidt replica of no change. And we will suffer for this perspective until we have someone brave enough who decides to change it

Yeah....

Nope.

That's just a stupid post

molloyjh

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I don't accept that argument for one second molloyjh. Anyway it's not about being different. It's clear what Andy Farrell wants to do which is a Joe schmidt replica of no change. And we will suffer for this perspective until we have someone brave enough who decides to change it

Ah great. Another poster who can't elaborate on their point, moves the goalposts, refuses to engage in discussion (on a discussion forum, seriously whats the point of that) and regardless of very real holes being shown in their opinion is incapable changing.

I've said this before, but I'll never understand some peoples insistence on being so miserable about stuff. It must make enjoying anything so much more difficult. Why watch a sport if you can't enjoy it???

aloooof

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I don't accept that argument for one second molloyjh. Anyway it's not about being different. It's clear what Andy Farrell wants to do which is a Joe schmidt replica of no change. And we will suffer for this perspective until we have someone brave enough who decides to change it

Ya, sorry Elisa, this is nonsense.

We’ve seen a change in personnel.
A reduction on box kicks.
Am increase in offloads.
An increase in passes per phase.

All of this is quite a distinct change to what we saw under Joe. What you’re saying is just not based in reality.

ElisaAtWar

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

The fact Elisa seriously thinks Andy Farrell is a replica of Joe shows that he/she already had his/her opinion made up before a ball was kicked.

But do you not see the ball is already kicked. And that's my point.

UAEguy2020

The fact Elisa seriously thinks Andy Farrell is a replica of Joe shows that he/she already had his/her opinion made up before a ball was kicked.

ElisaAtWar

My issue is not with any individual player

ElisaAtWar

molloyjh wrote: »

You realise that we have completely changed how we play the game, right? Like fundamentally changed it? Its also hilarious that you want to ignore the selection calls he has made around guys like Kelleher, Doris and Connors while also ignoring the lack of additional options in the areas you want to complain about.

Also, being different for the sake of being different is dumb. Farrell has identified how he wants to play the game and who he feels are best placed to deliver that. It has led to a completely different game plan and changes to selection. Thats exactly what he should be doing. Exactly.

I don't accept that argument for one second molloyjh. Anyway it's not about being different. It's clear what Andy Farrell wants to do which is a Joe schmidt replica of no change. And we will suffer for this perspective until we have someone brave enough who decides to change it

molloyjh

kingofthekong wrote: »

Kelleher is injured isnt he ?

Yeah, but he was brought into the 23 when fit in Feb and has been kept in the squad this month despite injury.

kingofthekong

molloyjh wrote: »

You realise that we have completely changed how we play the game, right? Like fundamentally changed it? Its also hilarious that you want to ignore the selection calls he has made around guys like Kelleher, Doris and Connors while also ignoring the lack of additional options in the areas you want to complain about.

Also, being different for the sake of being different is dumb. Farrell has identified how he wants to play the game and who he feels are best placed to deliver that. It has led to a completely different game plan and changes to selection. Thats exactly what he should be doing. Exactly.

Kelleher is injured isnt he ?