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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
DelaneyIn
TheCitizen
V8 Interceptor
Hamachi - lifted 14/03/22, reinstated 28/03/22
Effects
biko
Kivaro
Eric Cartman
Swindled
Gradius
RobbieTheRobber - lifted 25/08/21 - reinstated 27/08/21
Cordell - lifted 16/08/21
Gangster Yippin
blindjustice
Eircom_Sucks
TomSweeney
Wojtek the Bear
Cordell
klaz
0ph0rce0
tonium22
tonycascarino
Real Donald Trump
Star Bingo
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TomTomTim
Nosler
Absolute Zero
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Kivaro

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with you, the problem is that millions of Muslims never become radicalised, and have no interest in anything beyond providing for their families.
....
So. I'm not sure what the answer here is... apart from the obvious hardline stance of simply refusing Muslims access to Europe, but I don't really think that's going to be accepted as being reasonable.

My post referenced radical Muslims, and not those who integrate and contribute to society. It is obvious that you cannot refuse Muslims access to Europe, and I never implied that, or would never suggest it as a solution.

Deport and/or revoke Irish citizenship of those who are radical or turn radical would be a good first step.

[Deleted User]

Kivaro wrote: »

My post referenced radical Muslims, and not those who integrate and contribute to society. It is obvious that you cannot refuse Muslims access to Europe, and I never implied that, or would never suggest it as a solution.

Deport and/or revoke Irish citizenship of those who are radical or turn radical would be a good first step.

No, I wasn't suggesting that you had. It was just my own musings on the topic, because to halt such attacks we need to do more than answer the problems with the existing population, as the more radical elements of Muslims will still be centered in non-western nations where indoctrination is most effective.

But I agree that revoking of citizenship and subsequent deportation should be the first steps.

Mr. Karate

biko wrote: »

On the subject of Denmark:

Should be the same way here. We're supposed to believe that these people are so destitute that they're only coming over with the clothes on their backs [and the latest mobile phones] and yet in a few months they can afford to buy land and build a mosque.

biko

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Should be the same way here. We're supposed to believe that these people are so destitute that they're only coming over with the clothes on their backs [and the latest mobile phones] and yet in a few months they can afford to buy land and build a mosque.

That's the thing. The immigrants don't have the money for a mosque, but Saudi and Dubai do, and they are very happy to help spread Islam into Ireland/Denmark/whatnot.

biko

Slovakia is possibly the only European country with no mosques

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqyyos0iDgw

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-slovakia-religion-islam-idUSKBN13P20C

Slovakia passed legislation on Wednesday to effectively block Islam from gaining official status as a religion in the near future in the latest sign of growing anti-Muslim sentiment across the European Union.

The change will make it much harder to register Islam, which has just 2,000 adherents in Slovakia according to the last census and no recognised mosques.
The Islamic Foundation in Slovakia estimates the number at around 5,000.

The law was approved by a two-thirds majority in parliament comprising both ruling and opposition parties.

Mr. Karate

biko wrote: »

That's the thing. The immigrants don't have the money for a mosque, but Saudi and Dubai do, and they are very happy to help spread Islam into Ireland/Denmark/whatnot.

Definitely. Saudi Arabia won't take any of them, but they'll gladly give money to build mosques. And Good Luck trying to get any of our elected officials to try and ban Saudi money, but they go into hiding.

Hego Damask

https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1321790694567149569?s=20

Fair play to Gary, and yeah I can see the refugee had concerns that Linekar was "conservative"

The type of thing I guess most refugees worry about as they cross the Mediterranean in a dinghy.

Justin Credible Darts

biko wrote: »

Slovakia is possibly the only European country with no mosques

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqyyos0iDgw

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-slovakia-religion-islam-idUSKBN13P20C

they will complain next the french are "racist" against a religion...I know, work that one out.

There are not enough mosques, they get treated like suspects...imagine that,

If it is so bad, why are they arriving there in their droves ?
That is like people complaining siberia is cold, barren etc, and then millions flocking there. and complaining when they get there

TomTomTim

Hego Damask wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1321790694567149569?s=20

Fair play to Gary, and yeah I can see the refugee had concerns that Linekar was "conservative"

The type of thing I guess most refugees worry about as they cross the Mediterranean in a dinghy.

This makes little sense to me, unless it's pure PR. It's well known that he's not one bit conservative, I'm sure that was known by the agency who set this up, who could of passed on said information. It's looks like pure politics to me.

Kermit.de.frog

The CSO has released interesting stats from 2018.

The natural increase in the population is falling sharply unfortunately.

The natural increase (births minus deaths) in 2018 was 29,882, a decrease of 4.9% on the 2017 figure. The natural increase in 2008 was 46,899, 36.3% more than the 2018 figure.’

https://www.cso.ie/en/csolatestnews/pressreleases/2020pressreleases/pressstatementvitalstatisticsannualreport2018/

We have a serious structural problem in the country with ever more women not having enough children or any children at all.

What does this mean? Ultimately if standards of living are to be maintained, it is a statement of fact we need more and more immigrants to make up these shortfalls.

What is the solution? We desperately need to make changes that make it more attractive for women to be able to work and start having children, preferably at a younger age than the average 32 years now.

[Deleted User]

Hego Damask wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1321790694567149569?s=20

Fair play to Gary, and yeah I can see the refugee had concerns that Linekar was "conservative"

The type of thing I guess most refugees worry about as they cross the Mediterranean in a dinghy.

Gary only did it because he was called out on his 'let them all in' crap..

TomTomTim

https://twitter.com/Black_andirish/status/1321940613726638080

RTE has gone off the walls with their racial obsession recently. I'd have no problem with something like this if it wasn't going to go the way it will likely go, talking about racism, how racist the Irish are, and how the Irish must change to suit the "new Irish. It's all so boring, so predicable.

Sand

Kivaro wrote: »

My post referenced radical Muslims, and not those who integrate and contribute to society. It is obvious that you cannot refuse Muslims access to Europe, and I never implied that, or would never suggest it as a solution.

That's essentially writing off the problem as impossible to resolve. Because the issue is not Islam. Western European countries, under the influence of neoliberalism, created ethnic enclaves within their territories. Surprise, surprise, ethnic strife results. If you're framing solutions only within the same set of values that created the problem, its a waste of time.

Aleece2020

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We have a serious structural problem in the country with ever more women not having enough children or any children at all.

Women don't get pregnant on their own. It's both men and women who are walking away from parenthood.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is the solution? We desperately need to make changes that make it more attractive for women to be able to work and start having children, preferably at a younger age than the average 32 years now.

I think what's missing here is that it's not just circumstances that are preventing people from having kids. Yes, some people can't have kids because they're young, not secure in their careers and can't afford to raise a family - that's all true.

However, there's a growing number of people who don't have children because they don't want to be parents. They're actively making the choice to not be parents and are taking the necessary steps to prevent it. Neither me or my partner want kids. We'd like to get married eventually and spend our lives together; but we're plenty happy and fulfilled in life without having any.

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We have a serious structural problem in the country with ever more women not having enough children or any children at all.

True.

What does this mean? Ultimately if standards of living are to be maintained, it is a statement of fact we need more and more immigrants to make up these shortfalls.

Not true, because sustaining the current standard of living is impossible. Even with existing revenue (from reasonably prosperous periods), Ireland can barely support it's existing infrastructure, and supply of services. The standard of living has to drop simply because we can't afford to keep it going. We've been lucky to have two good periods of economic prosperity, but there's very little evidence to suggest that we'll have anything similar again for a number of decades. If anything, we need to recognise that the economy will shrink considerably, and people will need to expect a lower standard of living than they had before.

New immigrants won't solve that problem, because there aren't the jobs for them. The economy isn't growing in any significant manner which means, that the current population is more than enough to meet demands. New immigrants will simply place greater pressure on the infrastructure of the country, with them taking employment positions which the domestic population could have availed of... if there is that employment around at all.

What is the solution? We desperately need to make changes that make it more attractive for women to be able to work and start having children, preferably at a younger age than the average 32 years now.

True... we need to implement policies that lower the expected standard of living, but in turn, have policies that lower the overall cost of living in the country, whereby people can afford to have more children. The costs in providing for children and teens throughout their lives is incredibly expensive when considered over the span of 18-20 years (especially with the costs of university included). That needs to change.

But then so too does the perception towards having children, and starting a family. The aversion to getting married is growing in many men due to the inequalities in child custody and divorce. The same applies for civil marriages, with many men avoiding any such commitments. Then, there's the influence of feminism in creating the impression that women who have families rather than a career are somehow less.

If we want a healthy pop growth, we need to look at our society and the changes that have occurred over the last three decades.

Deshawn

TomTomTim wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Black_andirish/status/1321940613726638080

RTE has gone off the walls with their racial obsession recently. I'd have no problem with something like this if it wasn't going to go the way it will likely go, talking about racism, how racist the Irish are, and how the Irish must change to suit the "new Irish. It's all so boring, so predicable.

Rte are going down the toilet. They are broke. They will grab onto anything that they think will generate clicks or views.
For all of their talk they don't have any foreign folk in any public facing positions

Justin Credible Darts

Deshawn wrote: »

Rte are going down the toilet.

going ?

They have been clueless for a long long time

Aleece2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Then, there's the influence of feminism in creating the impression that women who have families rather than a career are somehow less.

In my experience as a twenty-something woman who doesn't want children; I'd say that I have generally been treated with contempt for it. Most people my age don't have children, but the majority want them at some point in the future and are just waiting on the right partner to come along, to be financially secure enough, to have a house without roommates etc.

The people who absolutely do not want kids no matter what are in the minority. The cost of living in Dublin is astronomical; but all of the graduate/early career positions for the 20-somethings are in Dublin. It's just too expensive to live, never mind affording children.

[Deleted User]

Aleece2020 wrote: »

In my experience as a twenty-something woman who doesn't want children; I'd say that I have generally been treated with contempt for it. Most people my age don't have children, but the majority want them at some point in the future and are just waiting on the right partner to come along, to be financially secure enough, to have a house without roommates etc.

I hear you. As a 43 year old single male, I've received a lot of similar criticism/judgment about my life choices, in that I never married, nor ever wanted children. It's obviously a stronger issue for women though, but it's there for both genders.

However, when I refer to the effects of feminism regarding women who choose a family over a career, it's the influence that feminism has had on society through Media, educational focuses, and governmental attitudes which has, over the last three decades, placed so much emphasis on the need for women to have a career. Not only a career, but to have one that is comparable with (or better than) men. It's extremely difficult for a woman to be a mother, while also establishing herself at the higher levels of professional employment.

The people who absolutely do not want kids no matter what are in the minority. The cost of living in Dublin is astronomical; but all of the graduate/early career positions for the 20-somethings are in Dublin. It's just too expensive to live, never mind affording children.

Exactly. The cost of living needs to be lowered, but that can only happen if people's expectations are lowered too... in addition to a State focus on lowering costs.

RonaVirus

https://twitter.com/ForasnaGaeilge/status/1322176439756615680?s=20

When did Ireland become 50%+ non white?

Liamario

Multi-nationals- good.
Multi-culture: Bad

Eric Cartman

Liamario wrote: »

Multi-nationals- good.
Multi-culture: Bad

multi-nationals : jobs and investment
multi-culture : rape gangs, economic drain and violence.

Wibbs

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The CSO has released interesting stats from 2018.

The natural increase in the population is falling sharply unfortunately.

It's still the highest in the EU though.

What does this mean? Ultimately if standards of living are to be maintained, it is a statement of fact we need more and more immigrants to make up these shortfalls.

Only A) if we want unsustainable "growth",

more costs to the environment, C) more ethnic strife and D) never mind that unless we restrict inflow to particular demographics who tend to rise to the middle and top, we'll face an increasing welfare bill. As it stands that's already in play, with those of African origin who came here due to the birthright loophole having higher background levels of reliance on social welfare than the natives. The kicker is those advantageous demographics, East Asians, Indian, professional classes of all origins coming here legally are also most likely to have smaller families. It's generally the poor who have more kids and unskilled economic migrants we most certainly do not need and the need for them will become less and less in an increasingly automated world.

As a small example; a mate of mine runs a small/medium business. Twenty or thirty years ago he would have required at least 5 employees, more like 10 in busier periods. Now it's basically just him and a bunch of machines. Two years back he was toying with the idea of an employee, but instead invested in another machine. Far less ongoing hassle.

That's only going to become more in play and not just with physical labour. The usual response is new jobs will become available like they did when say the canals made way for the railways and then roads. Big difference is manual labour on canals easily translated into manual labour on railways or roads. The really big difference is that in the past muscle was replaced by machines, this time and increasing brain power is being replaced. Look at the Wall st stock exchange floor. Long gone are the blokes screaming buy/sell in coloured jackets. It's now essentially a TV studio for reporters on the market. In the US the number of legal interns has dropped off a cliff, because the research they used to do is now done by IT systems.

Then we have this poxy virus. The chances are extremely high that we will face into a recession and more, a load of companies won't come back, or will come back with fewer employees working from home, realising that they didn't need a fair number, saving serious money in wages and office rent.

I will bet now to any of the younger people reading this that in 40 or 50 years time we will be struggling to understand the current idea of More People!! and unsustainable growth and will envy the nations with a low population density.

jmreire

Klass,in terms of lowering the standard of living in Ireland in the future (and presumably the not too distant future either ) How do you see that working out, using the past as a measuring stick? The 60's.70's 80's, 90's etc. Or a different metric if you prefer?

[Deleted User]

jmreire wrote: »

Klass,in terms of lowering the standard of living in Ireland in the future (and presumably the not too distant future either ) How do you see that working out, using the past as a measuring stick? The 60's.70's 80's, 90's etc. Or a different metric if you prefer?

TBH I'd see where Ireland was roughly two years after the Celtic Tiger ended. We'd still have all the improvements that happened over the last while, but we wouldn't have the funding to improve on them beyond basic maintenance. I'd see our health service dropping in quality by quite a bit, as would a wide range of services. Just as we'd be back to seeing every third shop front, or cafe closed on most town or city streets.

Ireland needs to face facts, and stop comparing itself to other European nations, even ones of similar populations. Those other countries have natural resources to call upon for added revenue or at least to cut down the costs for importation. Being an Island increases costs, especially with Britain entering a despotic period of retardedness, since most past importation of goods came through the UK, there will be added costs (even if they manage to bypass the UK, costs will increase substantially). Besides which, those countries have much better connections and relationships with the European nations, built up over centuries, which helps their economies (and the added advantage that most Europeans speak two-three languages...)

IMO I feel that successive Irish governments wasted a lot of time where Ireland could have properly developed a domestic economy that could support itself, through technological innovation. Oh, It's certainly come a long way, and there are many decent sized Irish companies, but too many of them have changed to become international companies, than genuinely Irish. There's far too much reliance on big business through the multinationals, who could pull up stakes anytime they wished. The focus should have been the continued view of Ireland being more similar to the Eastern European states, in that they're on the fringes of Europe, but now the focus has shifted away from Ireland, towards other countries who need investment, and I highly doubt the EU will shift back to supporting Ireland once more.

In terms of standard of living... That's hard to say, but I'd say something similar to Finland. Decent but not really comparable with Germany or France.

seenitall

Deleted User wrote: »

In terms of standard of living... That's hard to say, but I'd say something similar to Finland. Decent but not really comparable with Germany or France.

Isn’t that about how things are here right now, anyway? In terms of infrastructure and public services, for example. Tbh, I’ve never envisaged Ireland would get anywhere near the top tier with these things anyway. It seems to prefer pouring its money into the Social Welfare aspect, rather than say infrastructure.

Geuze

Wibbs wrote: »

Then we have this poxy virus. The chances are extremely high that we will face into a recession and more, a load of companies won't come back, or will come back with fewer employees working from home, realising that they didn't need a fair number, saving serious money in wages and office rent.

Chances????

We are in a savage recession since March 2020, or even earlier.

Massive unemployment, massive drop in domestic demand.

Yamanoto

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What does this mean? Ultimately if standards of living are to be maintained, it is a statement of fact we need more and more immigrants to make up these shortfalls.

For the import model to work from a pensions perspective, you'd end up requiring new arrivals in such large numbers, that population strain alone would render the whole exercise completely pointless.

This may come as news to some, but immigrants grow old at the same rate as the rest of us and would require their pension claims to be serviced too.

The associated net cost of providing welfare and services and witnessing what'd be left of our social cohesion dive-bombing off a cliff would be wilfully reckless and economically nonsensical for any government to countenance.

Sand

Yamanoto wrote: »

For the import model to work from a pensions perspective, you'd end up requiring new arrivals in such large numbers, that population strain alone would render the whole exercise completely pointless.

This may come as news to some, but immigrants grow old at the same rate as the rest of us and would require their pension claims to be serviced too.

The associated net cost of providing welfare and services and witnessing what'd be left of our social cohesion dive-bombing off a cliff would be wilfully reckless and economically nonsensical for any government to countenance.

It's also worth noting that non-EU migrants are more likely to be unemployed than indigenous Irish people. So, not only will they not assist in paying pensions, they actually cost money in housing, social welfare, related policing and integration costs etc. The concept of importing non-EU workers to pay for pensions is wholly bankrupt.

Sand

Eric Cartman wrote: »

multi-nationals : jobs and investment
multi-culture : rape gangs, economic drain and violence.

They're not unrelated. Look at the HR and leadership for any multi-national corporation. Wall to wall cheerleading for multiculturalism. Any country which welcomes US or EU investment is very quickly going to find itself berated into 'welcoming' multiculturalism. Multinationals like multiculturalism because they prefer economic zones where people define themselves by the product they consume only.