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Child Item

The case for NOT supporting local business

JizzBeans

During times of economic hardship and now during Covid, we hear things like "support local business" and "Buy Irish", etc. It does seem like the right thing to do, but when you think about it, it doesn't make that much sense.

For example, there are two local stores in my area, a men's clothing shop and a medium to large size department store. They both have been in the town 20+ years, well known places and folks would often say "its been there donkeys years" or "id be sad to see it go" etc. And have names like "Jims Menswear" (Not real name)

However, with the expansion of the town over the years, chains in shopping centers and the rise of online shopping, the last 10 years or so have not been kind to either store. It's painfully obvious how dated both stores are, overpriced, not keeping up with fashion, dilapidated storefronts etc.

In the men's store window,no lie, you will see an outfit like a Ben Sherman shirt and boot cut wrangular jeans pinned to a back board with wrangular shoes, like boys used to wear in school, sitting on the floor in front. In the department store you will see, loads of shelves with tacky ornaments and knick knacks. It does have several departments to be fair, garden, home-ware, cloths etc but poor variety in each and quite pricey. And this is just two examples of many similar business'. Every town has them food stores, clothing, hardware etc.

How does it make sense to shop in these depressing awful places? And why are we set upon with this unfair expectation of helping out a local business that is struggling. If a business cant survive then it should fold, it makes economic sense, its how good economies thrive.

Thoughts?

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Wanderer78

NIMAN wrote:

I appreciate locally hand made items will come with a price premium, but some are just taking the p1s$. But they will fall on their own sword, as buyers aren't mugs any more and won't stand for being fleeced.

Its virtually impossible to compete against major monopoly such as amazon, we all know the situation regarding taxation of such behemoths, there's no fairness there at all

NIMAN

Shopping local seems to be the mantra in RTE radio of late, every single programme is hammering us with it.

I will do my best to buy all my Xmas pressies this year from local suppliers if I can, but I do agree with a lot of comments here about many sellers' prices are very high for what they are providing.

I appreciate locally hand made items will come with a price premium, but some are just taking the p1s$. But they will fall on their own sword, as buyers aren't mugs any more and won't stand for being fleeced.

Wanderer78

listermint wrote:

Now I know you are a spoofer. I thought this was economics not after Hours

They're also clearly looking forward to their future job with Amazon, I really can't wait for it, such a wealthy company, all of their employees must be so happy!

[Deleted User]

listermint wrote: »

Now I know you are a spoofer. I thought this was economics not after Hours

Because they don’t agree with you? They make some very valid points and I find more and more people are coming around to the way they’re thinking.

listermint

Tzardine wrote: »

Thats the great thing about markets.

Without any walls, the sellers can easily see you coming.

I buy anything I can online. Could not care less about local stores. The local stores are a rip off. There is a bakery in my town that recently opened up. Selling a loaf of bread for €6. I actually hope they go under. That's taking the piss.

Its the same with clothes, electrical items and general hardware. They are gouging people that don't know better.

Close the lot and put an amazon collection point in each town.

Amazon has over 5000 employees in Ireland by the way, and growing fast. Add up all the employees in every Lidl store in every town in Ireland, and all the warehouse staff, and it still less than Amazon.

In the UK you can get 4 hour delivery on a massive amount of items from them. If that ever comes here then the local stores are done.

Now I know you are a spoofer. I thought this was economics not after Hours

Wanderer78

bee06 wrote:

Iâ€™ve also bought the majority of my online Christmas shopping from Irish owned businesses. Christmas toys from World of Wonder, my husbands present is being made by a local artist. There are very little bricks and mortar shops left that are actually Irish owned anyway.

True about ownership, but sme's are still the largest employer of the state, we increase the likelihood of the concentration of ownership and ultimately the closure of them, by not consuming from them, and as others have said, buy shopping more so online, the majority of the wealth created, leaves the state

namenotavailablE

I try to support the local businesses within reason as they typically generate local employment, pay rates etc.
However, recently I couldn't justify the price difference for 4 tyres (low profile and relatively rare for the small car I drive).
One local branch of a nationwide chain quoted €200 per tyre. Another advised me to buy them online. I ended up doing that, getting them shipped to the house (delivery and vat paid) and fitted for a total outlay of €580- a saving of €220.

bee06

I all of my shopping online now since COVID. The majority of my shopping preCovid would have been online as well because I don’t have time to go drive to town/shopping centre, find parking etc.

I’ve also bought the majority of my online Christmas shopping from Irish owned businesses. Christmas toys from World of Wonder, my husbands present is being made by a local artist. There are very little bricks and mortar shops left that are actually Irish owned anyway.

s1ippy

JizzBeans wrote: »

During times of economic hardship and now during Covid, we hear things like "support local business" and "Buy Irish", etc. It does seem like the right thing to do, but when you think about it, it doesn't make that much sense.

For example, there are two local stores in my area, a men's clothing shop and a medium to large size department store. They both have been in the town 20+ years, well known places and folks would often say "its been there donkeys years" or "id be sad to see it go" etc. And have names like "Jims Menswear" (Not real name)

However, with the expansion of the town over the years, chains in shopping centers and the rise of online shopping, the last 10 years or so have not been kind to either store. It's painfully obvious how dated both stores are, overpriced, not keeping up with fashion, dilapidated storefronts etc.

In the men's store window,no lie, you will see an outfit like a Ben Sherman shirt and boot cut wrangular jeans pinned to a back board with wrangular shoes, like boys used to wear in school, sitting on the floor in front. In the department store you will see, loads of shelves with tacky ornaments and knick knacks. It does have several departments to be fair, garden, home-ware, cloths etc but poor variety in each and quite pricey. And this is just two examples of many similar business'. Every town has them food stores, clothing, hardware etc.

How does it make sense to shop in these depressing awful places? And why are we set upon with this unfair expectation of helping out a local business that is struggling. If a business cant survive then it should fold, it makes economic sense, its how good economies thrive.

Thoughts?

I spent two hours trying to buy stuff we need for the house online. After making many compromises and avoiding spending €200 on four simple kitchen items on several Irish websites, I eventually had to just go with IKEA because they had exactly what I needed for a total of €75.

The range and value was just better. I understand why and their competitive advantage but I don't feel like cursing the supplier ever time I go to mash potatoes or grate citrus because I went with the wrong choice.

When it comes to fresh food there's no comparison though, online Irish local suppliers are the only way.

Tzardine

lalababa wrote: »

I've been frequenting farmer's markets lately (food) and bejeezus they are a bit in the dear side...like product A from god knows where would be 1:50 in a supermarket , but in the farmer's market (evethough organic) it would be like 5 quid??

Thats the great thing about markets.

Without any walls, the sellers can easily see you coming.

I buy anything I can online. Could not care less about local stores. The local stores are a rip off. There is a bakery in my town that recently opened up. Selling a loaf of bread for €6. I actually hope they go under. That's taking the piss.

Its the same with clothes, electrical items and general hardware. They are gouging people that don't know better.

Close the lot and put an amazon collection point in each town.

Amazon has over 5000 employees in Ireland by the way, and growing fast. Add up all the employees in every Lidl store in every town in Ireland, and all the warehouse staff, and it still less than Amazon.

In the UK you can get 4 hour delivery on a massive amount of items from them. If that ever comes here then the local stores are done.

lalababa

I kinda do a 20% rule. Weigh it up with convenience and time need.
But tis the buying of local/Irish (quality) product that will make the big difference to the locality.
Unfortunately re clothes & food we buy cheap overseas stuff of dubious quality in quantity.
On a side note, I've been frequenting farmer's markets lately (food) and bejeezus they are a bit in the dear side...like product A from god knows where would be 1:50 in a supermarket , but in the farmer's market (evethough organic) it would be like 5 quid??

listermint

There's some amount of people in this thread that can't see past Tomorrow. Your actions have consequences. If everyone has the attitude of il just buy it online know this. That's capital flight. The jobs aren't in this country all your doing is paying vat and maybe a small fee to an post.

There's no job in your county. No person being employed to eat in the cafe around the corner or buy a pint in the pub. Each cut closes those amenities until it eventually finds its way to your door. If you can't see that then you don't have a breeze how the world works.

No one's asking you to spend 160 on 85 per of boots . They're asking you to consider looking closer to home or consider looking at an Irish website. These are fairly small ask. The negative hysteria deployed by the OP is ignorant to the effects.

I buy plenty online I'd be stupid not do the selection of things I need in many cases I have to source. However we buy from a local butcher, I buy in local off license, I buy plenty from the two local Hardware stores non multinational, we eat in the local cafes. This isn't mandatory but these businesses are part of the cohesive eco system of what makes a place nice to live in.

If people like the OP want to run their locality down into a desolate hell hole well then I can't help but believe they've a juvenile outlook of the consequences. Go try sell your house in ten years time ...

Rubberchikken

I buy groceries local in so far as I shop in local Tesco and nearby supervalu with quick trip to Aldi once a week for couple of small items.
We buy our meat in butchers, have done so for a couple of decades.
Coal from the local Co op store and that's about it. Virtually everything else is online simply because I'm fed up going from shop to shop for items they never seem to have, virus or no virus.

Wanderer78

JizzBeans wrote:

Even in the last week alone there has been a noticeable increase in the "spend local" noise. I refuse to spend local just for the sake of it.

You may in fact being undermining your own employment situation by doing so

3DataModem wrote:

There's about 4 Amazon employees in Ireland for every town (3000 employees, about 800 towns above a certain size threshold).

I'm looking forward to my future amazon wear house job

3DataModem

There's about 4 Amazon employees in Ireland for every town (3000 employees, about 800 towns above a certain size threshold).

JizzBeans

Even in the last week alone there has been a noticeable increase in the "spend local" noise. I refuse to spend local just for the sake of it.

Padre_Pio

At least that practice of reselling is dying out. I suppose the opposite though is showrooming, trying something on in a shop and buying it cheaper online.

[Deleted User]

Two examples:

1.) My local butchers opens at 10 and closes at 5. His food is excellent, though a little bit dearer than say Lidl, but I've no issue paying a bit more for better stuff. He is impossible to get to normally. I was in there pre-COVID when I had a day off and was giving out about the lack of business. I asked if he ever thought about changing his hours, opening late even one day a week and he laughed in my face.

Fast forward to this month, and there's a whole host of people who are now working from home or who are free during the day. Place is as busy as I've ever seen it, queues out the door. What's your man's first response........?

Jacks up the price on absolutely everything, have to squeeze every last egg out of the golden goose of course

.

2) Attended the fair / market in St Annes around the same time. Bought a few bits, including some pressed apple juice from a local farmer at €4 per litre. It was expensive, but nice and they obviously had to put work in to produce it, so fair enough.

They were also selling cups of mulled cider, which included some ginger cordial (basically ginger mi-wadi). They were selling that cordial for something like €12 per bottle. I started laughing, and said "sure you can probably pick that up on amazon for under a fiver" and she said "if you can get that for a fiver, send me a link because I get it for €7.50 and add on my own mark-up. I only have a couple of bottles here cos it doesn't sell very well".

Ignoring, for a second, the 60% mark-up on an item that required nothing other than to be transported.....I whipped out my phone and placed an order for 4 bottles on amazon, for £12.50 delivered. I even gave her the link. Two weeks later, passed the same stall and she had about 20 bottles of it sitting on a table with a sign that said "Now reduced....was €12, now two bottles for €20".

TL;DR - I'm all for shopping local. What I'm not all for, is someone pissing down my trouser leg and telling me it's raining. Globalisation has led us to realise that we are being taken for mugs. Everything in this country is a rip-off, none more so than anything which is"locally sourced, organically farmed, asbestos-free artisanal bollocks".

If your business is struggling because your prices are too high, then reduce your prices. Otherwise, it's not a viable business. Should it be more acceptable for Irish taxi drivers to charge more than foreigners because you're supporting local businesses? Or how about a plumber, painter, carpenter? Of course not. Then why should retail be any different?

Wanderer78

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

The issue I have with Irish food and drinks manufacturers is that most of their money for services and equipment goes to the UK, yet they're the first ones to bleat about supporting Irish by supporting them.

A large proportion of the wealth created, probably ends up all over the planet

[Deleted User]

The issue I have with Irish food and drinks manufacturers is that most of their money for services and equipment goes to the UK, yet they're the first ones to bleat about supporting Irish by supporting them.

Padre_Pio

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

I saved €2,100 on my kayak and surrounding bits and pieces by using (international) online shopping. My PFD alone was €95 cheaper online. Of course I feel terrible and guilty and sad... but I'm also very happy and wealthier sooooooo...

Where did you buy your gear?

Wanderer78

CoronaBlocker wrote:

I saved â‚¬2,100 on my kayak and surrounding bits and pieces by using (international) online shopping. My PFD alone was â‚¬95 cheaper online. Of course I feel terrible and guilty and sad... but I'm also very happy and wealthier sooooooo...

An understandable outcome and feeling, but if we continue to behave as such, we increase the likelihood of economic instability, by reducing the velocity of money in our own economy. But I completely understand why people behave like this, I do myself, I always think, if the local price is similar to the alternative, even if it's slightly higher, and you can afford it, please go with the local option

CoronaBlocker

unhappys10 wrote: »

This support Irish thing is usually a crock of sh1t.
Rip off Ireland puts anyone off who may want to buy local.

One example in my case. I wanted a pair of brand name boots. In the store here they were 160. I got the same pair on Amazon for 85 delivered. I could have just about gotten 2 pairs for what the Irish store wanted.

An extreme example but there are thousands of similar stories i'm sure.

I'll always go with the best deal. Got to look after number one.

I saved €2,100 on my kayak and surrounding bits and pieces by using (international) online shopping. My PFD alone was €95 cheaper online. Of course I feel terrible and guilty and sad... but I'm also very happy and wealthier sooooooo...

sheepskin1234

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

When all the small local businesses have closed and gone, where are your daughters/sons/wives/husbands going to find work?

It is already happening and your are blinkered in your views. Why not close down all local businesses now and just order from the multinational warehouses like amazon. Stack it high, sell it cheap. That's if you have a job to earn the money to buy the stuff.

I know a village in Dublin where a hard german discounter came into a warehouse unit. Wiped out everything around it. Super cheap, employs about 6 people and cost 20 people locally their jobs.

Watch and see

We should never have rolled out electricity because the candlestick makers lost their jobs.

sheepskin1234

Ceepo wrote: »

Are amazon a good place to call on when the local sports club, school, town Hall etc etc are looking to raise some funds
I some how doubt it.

Usually people turn to local businesses for support. Great how that works.

Cut out the middleman sure and just use your savings and give it direct to your club.

BTW there's plenty of multinationals who support local causes!

sheepskin1234

Haven't read any of the thread but I will not be going out of my way to support local businesses.

I see on my local (basically suburb of Dublin) facebook page people are posting "go out and support local!!". I think this is virtue signalling of the highest order.

Let's take a look at my towns businesses of mostly cafes/pub grubs:

- Most of the pubs/restaurants are there years and years and I think most of them are owned outright so no rent. They may have got payment breaks if they did rent.

- They got 350 per week while they were closed

- They got rates suspended for several months.

- They were operating takeaways while officially being closed, thus making income while still getting the 350 a week.

- They're getting restart grants - 15k+

- There's pent up demand so people are desperate to go out for food, drinks etc.

- The tax payers are paying 203 euro per week for each of their staff

- VAT cut

So why should I go out and throw my hard earned money to those who are raking it in? And it's not like the staff benefit, when they're being subsidised by taxpayers. Business owners laid off those who they didn't need anyways by now.

I mean look at the staycationers, that's how you get repaid for supporting local. You get ripped off.

An owner who has a pub/restaurant that is mad busy was on tv saying how it's a disgrace and how he's disgusted with the business closures.

When the time comes I'll be buying their tax returns to see how they did.

We're throwing silly money at businesses, they must be laughing behind it all. And then in a few years the tax payers will have to pay it all back anyways!

And lastly, I guess when people say "support local!" they mean don't buy in multinationals. WHO THE HELL WORKS IN THE CHAINS ONLY LOCALS. If you don't shop in your starbucks then it'll close and those locals lose their jobs. Even if I'm buying on Amazon I'm supporting local couriers. It's all tosh.

The Belly

Ceepo wrote: »

YET!!

give it time that tune will change.

Ceepo

unhappys10 wrote: »

Oh I will, I'm not the one depending on anyone, so enjoy yourself

YET!!

unhappys10

Ceepo wrote: »

Not on any high horse I can assure you.
And why wouldn't you get something from amazon for half price.
That's the beauty of buying of the Internet, you are bound to come across a bargain from some retailer when you are in the market. No doubt some retailers are discounting items from time to time, as do local retailers when they have their bargain rails/shelf or sales.

But there is a lot more to buying local.
As someone who is self employed in the service industry, I know the cost to running a business, and I depend on local people buy my service. In turn when Joe/Jane come selling tickets etc for what ever fundraiser they depend on the like of me to support them.
Or when I'm looking for something, the person selling it or someone related will probably look for me services at some point. Like it or not that's the way things work.

Now I could take the me me me attitude that you are taking, but I wouldn't be in business very long.
Enjoy your time in your me me me bubble.

Oh I will, I'm not the one depending on anyone, so enjoy yourself

ted1

Heebie wrote: »

The ones you got are probably knock-offs that cost $10 to make.

Or they sell 100 paid a day. Get them cheaper from the manufacture, pay little taxes , have 1 staff per 10,000 sales, paying minimum wage.

It’s expensive to run a store in a town with a low turnover of stock.