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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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arsebiscuits1

4 debuts in the 23 is surely the highest for a 6N game in recent memory? I know circumstances are different but still that's fantastic to see.

Add to that the single cap for Heffernan and Doris (excluding his 4 minute debut) it's a really new feel to it.

First starts for Heff and Doris too if I'm not mistaken?

Kevski

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

4 debuts in the 23 is surely the highest for a 6N game in recent memory? I know circumstances are different but still that's fantastic to see.

Add to that the single cap for Heffernan and Doris (excluding his 4 minute debut) it's a really new feel to it.

First starts for Heff and Doris too if I'm not mistaken?

Doris started against Scotland and also came off the bench against England earlier in the year I think.

arsebiscuits1

Some positive signs there in the pack too.

Heffernan is quite and under rated carrier and I think he has lovely hands. Could easily build a few strike plays around him.

Connors can do the lions share of the line speed and defensive work freeing up Doris to take on more ball.

Ryan and Stander had far too much of the responsibility for carrying so great to see potentially 2 more options there.

Connors and Beirne might make a formidable duo in defence. Can't think of anyone with a better chop tackle than Will and few can match Tadghs speed at getting over the ball.

Lineouts could be a cause for concern. None of the backrow would be standouts. Doris well capable of getting up at the front though

arsebiscuits1

Kevski wrote: »

Doris started against Scotland and also came off the bench against England earlier in the year I think.

Sorry you're right he did start against Scotland but his cap against Scotland did last less than 4 minutes.

In my mind he's had one test match of significant experience to him

Clegg

Decent enough side considering the injury problems. Delighted for Keenan. His rise has been so quick. Was putting in good performances pre-lockdown, but they were middling league games. Upon the restart he went up another level so quickly. Started all our big games and performed well.

Only issues I have with the team are Sexton and POM. Italy at home is our easiest fixture so there's no better time to bed in a potential successor. And POM is a waste of a bench spot. Been in awful firm since the restart and was lucky to even make the wider squad.

sydthebeat

Clegg wrote: »

Decent enough side considering the injury problems. Delighted for Keenan. His rise has been so quick. Was putting in good performances pre-lockdown, but they were middling league games. Upon the restart he went up another level so quickly. Started all our big games and performed well.

Only issues I have with the team are Sexton and POM. Italy at home is our easiest fixture so there's no better time to bed in a potential successor. And POM is a waste of a bench spot. Been in awful firm since the restart and was lucky to even make the wider squad.

POM on the bench is a bit of a head scratcher alright. If we need one more try and there's 15 mins left, he's not exactly the back row player to open the field up.
Perhaps it's just lack of choice there really as VDFs main traits are more defensive than offensive.

Conan would make much more sense

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

Thornley way out

Thornley furiously phoning his sources at this point in time I'd say.

mfceiling

Would Doris at 8 and CJ at 6 make more sense or am I way out?

sydthebeat

mfceiling wrote: »

Would Doris at 8 and CJ at 6 make more sense or am I way out?

Established 8, 9 and 10 for more direction off set piece I would think

molloyjh

Some interesting calls there. Don't think anyone can accuse Farrell of being conservative anyway. The only selection I'd disagree with is POM tbh. Would have thought Conan off the bench would have been more what we needed given we're looking for scores. But it's a very callow bench in the forwards at least so the experience and leadership is probably a big factor there.

molloyjh

mfceiling wrote: »

Would Doris at 8 and CJ at 6 make more sense or am I way out?

I would have thought so, but I suppose Doris doesn't have a huge amount of time at 8, especially in bigger games. As syd said, the experience of Stander there probably makes sense. It will be interesting to see how they plan to use POM though? Does he come in for Connors or onto the blindside? If its the latter, Doris could move to 8 potentially.

arsebiscuits1

Just had a thought.

The anthems are gonna be weird this weekend.

Presumably they wont have Michael D there. Nor will they have the marching band.

I think it's going to be bizarre seeing the teams singing in an empty stadium

Dog Botherer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Just had a thought.

The anthems are gonna be weird this weekend.

Presumably they wont have Michael D there. Nor will they have the marching band.

I think it's going to be bizarre seeing the teams singing in an empty stadium

Ireland’s Call is going to be an atrocity, and i don’t even usually mind it. the others might be okay though.

[Deleted User]

Think the team is fine. I don't really think our tight 5 is great but he's probably picked the best available, we just don't have the personnel there with the injuries, Healy getting on etc. Didn't expect Connors to start at all and Keenan has had some rise. I think Aki is the right call, he's been really good this season. Dunno what POM has to do to get dropped but apparently less than doing nothing in game bar getting sent off, and hopefully JGP gets some meaningful gametime.

Dog Botherer

i assume O’Mahony is there to give the hookers an easy target at the front of the lineout if it’s all going ****eways. which, given our line outs lately, fair enough.

still wouldn’t have picked him mind.

AbusesToilets

Interested Observer wrote: »

Think the team is fine. I don't really think our tight 5 is great but he's probably picked the best available, we just don't have the personnel there with the injuries, Healy getting on etc. Didn't expect Connors to start at all and Keenan has had some rise. I think Aki is the right call, he's been really good this season. Dunno what POM has to do to get dropped but apparently less than doing nothing in game bar getting sent off, and hopefully JGP gets some meaningful gametime.

Bizarre choice, you'd swear he's the only backrower we have who can jump.

Dog Botherer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Bizarre choice, you'd swear he's the only backrower we have who can jump.

but he is our only back row who can only jump. what could go wrong?

sydthebeat

Dog Botherer wrote: »

i assume O’Mahony is there to give the hookers an easy target at the front of the lineout if it’s all going ****eways. which, given our line outs lately, fair enough.

still wouldn’t have picked him mind.

every single one of our back 5 are jumping options.....

if we cant secure our own ball from that then there will serious questions asked of Easterby.

I think against italy we could have looked at a more offence minded "finisher" type from the bench, as points difference could become a factor.... but hey.

Against France however, maybe POM as an 'in the trenches' would be more applicable option.

arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Bizarre choice, you'd swear he's the only backrower we have who can jump.

It's well established that POM is one of the best lineout operators of Irelands backrow choices.

Doris is a capable option. Normally used at 2 for Leinster.

CJ and Connors I don't think have 5 lineout takes between them this season. VDF or Conan are rarely deployed as jumpers either

POM offers a genuine threat of a steal and is consistently able to beat the opposition into the air.

I'm not calling for him to be involved. But I don't think his aerial ability can be disputed

AbusesToilets

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

It's well established that POM is one of the best lineout operators of Irelands backrow choices.

Doris is a capable option. Normally used at 2 for Leinster.

CJ and Connors I don't think have 5 lineout takes between them this season. VDF or Conan are rarely deployed as jumpers either

POM offers a genuine threat of a steal and is consistently able to beat the opposition into the air.

I'm not calling for him to be involved. But I don't think his aerial ability can be disputed

He's good for maybe one steal a game. Out of how many lineouts a per game? That usually comes with 0-5 tackles, no carries, maybe a steal on the deck if he's having one of his "good " games.

arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He's good for maybe one steal a game. Out of how many lineouts a per game? That usually comes with 0-5 tackles, no carries, maybe a steal on the deck if he's having one of his "good " games.

I'm not discussing other aspects of his game. Nor do I think he should be involved.

But with regards to lineouts I do think he's a better alternative to the likes of VDF, or Conan and is the only reason I can see him being involved.

If I'm analysing the most effective way to create scoring opportunities in the 6 nations, line outs are a massive source of them. So there is logic to getting someone who can secure a potentially problematic lineout. And someone who can disrupt an opposition lineout

AbusesToilets

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I'm not discussing other aspects of his game. Nor do I think he should be involved.

But with regards to lineouts I do think he's a better alternative to the likes of VDF, or Conan and is the only reason I can see him being involved.

If I'm analysing the most effective way to create scoring opportunities in the 6 nations, line outs are a massive source of them. So there is logic to getting someone who can secure a potentially problematic lineout. And someone who can disrupt an opposition lineout

I don't dismiss his abilities in the lineout, he's certainly the best in the country as a defensive jumper, but on our own jump I don't think he's so much better for that to be considered a factor.

aloooof

4 debutantes in the 23, and others like Doris and Heffernan who are still pretty new to the international fold, and we're still discussing POM...

sydthebeat

aloooof wrote: »

4 debutantes in the 23, and others like Doris and Heffernan who are still pretty new to the international fold, and we're still discussing POM...

you must have missed the posts that have been praising the selection of young players and debutants

but obviously until we see how they perform in green theres gonna be very little discussion other than being glad to see them there.

POM however, well we know at this stage what he brings to the party.

As a bench option i just think its a bit strange unless we're trying to hang on for a win when he comes on.

If his lineout ability on both attack and defense was such a potent weapon to pressure both sides of the ball... he should be starting.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

you must have missed the posts that have been praising the selection of young players and debutants

but obviously until we see how they perform in green theres gonna be very little discussion other than being glad to see them there.

POM however, well we know at this stage what he brings to the party.

As a bench option i just think its a bit strange unless we're trying to hang on for a win when he comes on.

If his lineout ability on both attack and defense was such a potent weapon to pressure both sides of the ball... he should be starting.

I think keeping guys the right kind of focused and in the right head space of we are chasing a couple of scores makes sense too. We dont want to get too loose. And with all the inexperience on the bench (plus the lack of experience together too) that could well happen. We've often seen when sides make a lot of changes with inexperienced options on the bench they lose a bit of cohesion.

[Deleted User]

Happy and all as I am to see prospects handed a cap, is it really a good idea to start Keenan on the wing, a guy who has just one try to his name at provincial level (scored back in 2018) in a game where we need to rack up a massive score to have even the remotest chance of remaining in the hunt for the championship?

aloooof

wittycynic wrote: »

Happy and all as I am to see prospects handed a cap, is it really a good idea to start Keenan on the wing, a guy who has just one try to his name at provincial level (scored back in 2018) in a game where we need to rack up a massive score to have even the remotest chance of remaining in the hunt for the championship?

Who would you suggest in his place?

[Deleted User]

aloooof wrote: »

Who would you suggest in his place?

Keenan doesn't show any indication of being a try scorer, so wing is an odd place to put him.

In my opinion he either starts at fullback or he doesn't start.

And even then I'd have Daly, and maybe even Henshaw, ahead of him at full back for this game, both of whom offer more of a scoring threat.

UAEguy2020

wittycynic wrote: »

Happy and all as I am to see prospects handed a cap, is it really a good idea to start Keenan on the wing, a guy who has just one try to his name at provincial level (scored back in 2018) in a game where we need to rack up a massive score to have even the remotest chance of remaining in the hunt for the championship?

Milner Skudder only had 4 tries in SR before playing for ABs and then scored 3 tries in his first 2 test matches

Obviously a big player to compare but some players take to test rugby and some don’t.

AbusesToilets

wittycynic wrote: »

Keenan doesn't show any indication of being a try scorer, so wing is an odd place to put him.

In my opinion he either starts at fullback or he doesn't start.

And even then I'd have Daly, and maybe even Henshaw, ahead of him at full back for this game, both of whom offer more of a scoring threat.

Luke Fitz was one of the best wingers we've ever had, didn't score many tries. I'd still start him every time