The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

markodaly wrote: »

Its as clear as the light of day what Francie is doing.
Claiming all kids and babies in the North as Irish by default, as they are too young to give proper consent to what identity they want...

Even though he himself rejects the absurd notion of counting people into your own tribe this way as a bit weird.

I will repeat, the GFA says nothing on this, or default identity.

Where you are born has nothing to do with identity Mark. You can choose your identity.
If you ask me how many Irish people identify as British I would say close to 1 million. And that is fine by me. There are also numerous British people who identify as Irish.

You are desperate to win this debate so you have to indulge in the misrepresentation and lies again.

blanch152 wrote: »

Northern Irish refers to those born in the state of Northern Ireland, a constituent part of the United Kingdom.
o.

And you can identify them by accent.

:D:D:D:D:D

Suckit wrote: »

That is a biggg stretch of either pretending to misunderstand or being obtuse.

Especially considering you were trying to goad an answer out, an obviously didn't get what you sought.

I tried to tell him the Irish are not tribe (who thinks like that anymore?) but a diverse range of people with different identities born on the island of Ireland. He is having mega difficulty with that simple fact.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where you are born has nothing to do with identity Mark.

Correct

You can choose your identity.

Correct

If you ask me how many Irish people identify as British I would say close to 1 million. And that is fine by me. There are also numerous British people who identify as Irish.

Wrong, these people are not Irish to begin with, as you said above. The GFA is clear on this.
You seem to have an issue with the GFA therefore, in bestowing nationality on people.

indulge in the misrepresentation and lies again.

I do not have to indulge or misrepresent anything, you do all that yourself.

E.g.

You choose your identity, which is a choice no newborn can make.

Therefore all newborns in Ireland and the North are 'Irish'... am I right? :P:rolleyes:

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

I know that you think that, but you believe that calling someone a woman or a refugee is an insult. That says more about you frankly than it does about anyone else around here.

I met Mary McAleese a few times when she was in TCD in the 1980s. A formidable and likeable woman.

No you called people from the North who live down here refugees
Big difference

What's the Greens stance on issues up North considering you blame the North for the problems here

markodaly wrote: »

Wrong, these people are not Irish to begin with, as you said above. The GFA is clear on this.
You seem to have an issue with the GFA therefore, in bestowing nationality on people.

Nonsense of twisting and the ridiculous notion that people are 'nothing' until they are able to identify as they wish.

The GFA deals with the right to 'identify as you wish'.

Therefore all newborns in Ireland and the North are 'Irish'... am I right? :P:rolleyes:

What else would they be?

If you claim them to be British(no part of this island was ever Britain) you are giving them an identity.

Irish, as in the geographical place you were born is not an 'identity' Mark.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA deals with the right to 'identify as you wish'.

Yes, as 'you' wish. Not how FrancieBrady wishes.

What else would they be?

Was Jamie Heaslip Israeli when he was born in Israel?

Your argument is that someone is 'Irish' until they grow up and identify as British if they want.
Can you share us the piece in the GFA that states this? Thanks!

If you claim them to be British(no part of this island was ever Britain) you are giving them an identity.

See, I am giving them NO identity, which is the point.

They are too young to give a **** about identity unlike the bigots out there claiming them as their own 'tribe'.

Once they are old enough and reach some age of consent on the matter they can choose themselves, as is their right under the GFA, if they want...
Until then, they are kids and babies.... so leave aside the sectarian nonsense.

Irish, as in the geographical place you were born is not an 'identity' Mark.

Oh, yes, reverse that truck....

Junkyard Tom

Can any of the SF lads tell me where SF stand on the recent calls by The IFA to legalise marijuana?

https://twitter.com/Ginosocialist/status/1318145606297276420?s=20

Do they still have that old reflexive anti-drugs Provo thing in the party DNA?

suicide_circus

SF welcome the return of the PUP to 350 but say more should be done.

Gov: we'll give you 300

SF: we'd give you 350!

Gov: ok we'll give you 350

SF: we'd give you 400!

Repeat ad nauseam

beggars_bush

maccored wrote: »

They have been for years now

They're worse than the DUP
Against everything

grayzer75

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, as 'you' wish. Not how FrancieBrady wishes.

Was Jamie Heaslip Israeli when he was born in Israel?

Your argument is that someone is 'Irish' until they grow up and identify as British if they want.
Can you share us the piece in the GFA that states this? Thanks!

See, I am giving them NO identity, which is the point.

They are too young to give a **** about identity unlike the bigots out there claiming them as their own 'tribe'.

Once they are old enough and reach some age of consent on the matter they can choose themselves, as is their right under the GFA, if they want...
Until then, they are kids and babies.... so leave aside the sectarian nonsense.

Oh, yes, reverse that truck....

Being Irish is the birth right of every person born on the island of Ireland whether you or your fellow west brits like it or not. There would be very few people looking to change an Irish passport for a British passport but under the terms of the GFA a load of your fellow loyalists switched the other way and got themselves Irish passports.

As it says in page 3 of the Irish passport: It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes it's islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

My 8 year old was born in county Armagh and is 100% Irish as is his mum who was born in county Down.

Yurt2

grayzer75 wrote: »

Being Irish is the birth right of every person born on the island of Ireland whether you or your fellow west brits like it or not. There would be very few people looking to change an Irish passport for a British passport but under the terms of the GFA a load of your fellow loyalists switch the other way and got themselves Irish passports.

As it says in page 3 of the Irish passport: It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes it's islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

My 8 year old was born in county Armagh and is 100% Irish as is his mum who was born in county Down.

Incorrect. This is not the current legal situation.

Bishop of hope

grayzer75 wrote: »

Being Irish is the birth right of every person born on the island of Ireland whether you or your fellow west brits like it or not. There would be very few people looking to change an Irish passport for a British passport but under the terms of the GFA a load of your fellow loyalists switched the other way and got themselves Irish passports.

As it says in page 3 of the Irish passport: It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes it's islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

My 8 year old was born in county Armagh and is 100% Irish as is his mum who was born in county Down.

From citizens information.

"You are not automatically an Irish citizen if you were born on the island of Ireland. You may be entitled to Irish citizenship if your parent(s) or grandparents were Irish. You may be entitled to Irish citizenship if you were born outside of Ireland, but you may need to register your birth"

grayzer75

Yurt! wrote: »

Incorrect. This is not the current legal situation.

Under Article 1 (iv)/(vi) of the Good Friday Agreement, “the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship” is recognised by both the Irish and British governments.

This is an international treaty, signed by all parties and sitting in the United Nations.

Blanch I'm genuinely curious, do you have a single genuine or cohesive moral principle of belief in your body, or do you just fire off any random auld shyte whichever way the wind is blowing in order to be argumentive, or to try and "win some online argument", seriously?

Here, at 2308 we can see that you think it's "absurd" that "somehow you're wrong" if you assume someone is "northern Irish because of their accent, and of where they're from"

blanch152 wrote: »

The levels of absurdity that the Shinners reach is that if I assume that someone with a Northern Ireland accent is from Northern Ireland and is Northern Irish, then somehow I am wrong.

Just an hour later,. I guess merely to be argumentive or on a WUM (I'm not sure) here is where you stand.

blanch152 wrote: »

100% correct, the linkage of nationality to territory is one of the biggest scourges of humanity and has led to so many unnecessary conflicts.

You are who you want to be, you are not imprisoned by the place of your birth.

Felipe Fillop comes out to play again.

Once again, you couldn’t make it up.

More irony, it's interesting that you wrote that, and also wrote this.

Hey Mc, are you still calling for schools to be closed because of the uncontrolled Covid transmission?

And completely ignored where I asked you to quote me saying or suggesting anything like that?

Absolute WUM and a.complete and utter spoofer. The only flip side is that you're all too easily called out which doesn't reflect well.

Carry on.

atticu

McMurphy wrote: »

Where am I saying that?

So you are not saying that if you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish.

So, you disagree with Fracie.

And before you say: where did I say that.
It is one or the other.

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, as 'you' wish. Not how FrancieBrady wishes.

I am NOT deciding anyone's 'identity' Mark.

Was Jamie Heaslip Israeli when he was born in Israel?

If his place of birth says Israel, then yes. Unless he is one of the exceptions, born while parent was on a short stopover or trip.

Your argument is that someone is 'Irish' until they grow up and identify as British if they want.
Can you share us the piece in the GFA that states this? Thanks!

The GFA states the 'right' to identify as you wish. Can you identify as YOU wish as a newborn? No, of course you can't.

See, I am giving them NO identity, which is the point.

Yes, we read that little bit of ridiculousness before.

They are too young to give a **** about identity unlike the bigots out there claiming them as their own 'tribe'.

You are the only one talking of the archaic notion of 'tribes' and 'claiming'.

I have done no such thing.

Once they are old enough and reach some age of consent on the matter they can choose themselves, as is their right under the GFA, if they want...
Until then, they are kids and babies.... so leave aside the sectarian nonsense.

Please find a definition of 'sectarian'. And please review what you have written here...you have given them an assumed identity.
All I have done is give them the geographical signifier of their place of birth.

Oh, yes, reverse that truck....

I'm reversing? It is what I have been saying on this subject since the conversation started.

So far your significant answer is 'babies born on the island of Ireland are 'nothing' until such time as they can choose an identity. Or does that doozie just apply to northern Unionists?
It is almost as fabulous as an argument as blanch's claim that he can distinguish Northern Irish people from northern Irish people just by their accent.
Even I assume separate those accents out into 'Northern Irish, Irish and British'

Some lads you are! .

McMurphy wrote: »

Blanch I'm genuinely curious, do you have a single genuine or cohesive moral principle of belief in your body, or do you just fire off any random auld shyte whichever way the wind is blowing in order to be argumentive, or to try and "win some online argument", seriously?

Here, at 2308 we can see that you think it's "absurd" that "somehow you're wrong" if you assume someone is "northern Irish because of their accent, and of where they're from"

Just an hour later,. I guess merely to be argumentive or on a WUM (I'm not sure) here is where you stand.

Felipe Fillop comes out to play again.

More irony, it's interesting that you wrote that, and also wrote this.

And completely ignored where I asked you to quote me saying or suggesting anything like that?

Absolute WUM and a.complete and utter spoofer. The only flip side is that you're all too easily called out which doesn't reflect well.

Carry on.

I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of my posts, whether deliberate or otherwise.

Nothing wrong in my assuming anyone from Northern Ireland being Northern Irish. Nothing wrong in anyone assuming another identity should they so choose. If I assume the first, nothing wrong in the individual correcting me.

All fully compatible, all fully logical.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All I have done is give them the geographical signifier of their place of birth.

.

Wow, just wow, what a turnaround from Francie.

We are all British because we were born on the British Isles, the accepted geographical name for this archipelago.

If anything shows us the paucity of his argument, that does.

blanch152 wrote: »

Wow, just wow, what a turnaround from Francie.

We are all British because we were born on the British Isles, the accepted geographical name for this archipelago.

If anything shows us the paucity of his argument, that does.

:D:D:D:D

I suppose you could identify them from their accents too?

Wow, just amazing to watch you go down n a ball of flames of your own fearful and pitiful bias and spite.

When did partitionists start hating on themselves so much?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D:D

I suppose you could identify them from their accents too?

Wow, just amazing to watch you go down n a ball of flames of your own fearful and pitiful bias and spite.

When did partitionists start hating on themselves so much?

Not hating on anyone, it was you who introduced this new concept of the geographical identifier of origin, which ended up making us all British.

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of my posts, whether deliberate or otherwise.

.

He misinterpreted this?

blanch152 wrote:

I don't. If I hear someone with a Northern accent, I assume they are Northern Irish, as do most people I know.

Still can't get my head around how you can tell the difference between me and somebody who lives 300 or 400 yards away.

Admit it blanch, you talked yourself into another cul de sac of nonsensical twisting.

atticu wrote: »

So you are not saying that if you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish.

Of course being born on the island of Ireland doesn't automatically entitle someone to be Irish, an Azerbaijani couple holidaying in the Cooley peninsula who have a premature baby for example, that baby is not automatically entitled to Irish citizenship.

This obviously works both ways.

David Norris, from memory born in Africa, speaks with an upper class English accent, he's Irish.

My colleague, born in London to Sikh immigrants, dresses as a westerner, speaks with a cockney accent, drinks alcohol and eats rashers - identifies as Indian and holds an Indian passport.

So, you disagree with Fracie.

Do I?

And before you say: where did I say that.
It is one or the other.

It's not, apart from dual nationalities being a thing, you're confusing self identity and citizenship.

This all stemmed from blanch assuming someone who spoke with a northern accent isn't Irish, he'd assume they're northern Irish, which last time I checked was on the island of Ireland. Ask all those up in Donegal if you need more clarify on that one.

blanch152 wrote: »

Not hating on anyone, it was you who introduced this new concept of the geographical identifier of origin, which ended up making us all British.

Oh stop embarrassing yourself.

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of my posts, whether deliberate or otherwise.

Nothing wrong in my assuming anyone from Northern Ireland being Northern Irish. Nothing wrong in anyone assuming another identity should they so choose. If I assume the first, nothing wrong in the individual correcting me.

All fully compatible, all fully logical.

Nothing wrong with it at all - unless a shinner is involved.

How you think I misinterpreted this is beyond me. Please stop embarrassing yourself blanch.

blanch152 wrote: »

The levels of absurdity that the Shinners reach is that if I assume that someone with a Northern Ireland accent is from Northern Ireland and is Northern Irish, then somehow I am wrong.

Once again, you couldn’t make it up.

Hey Mc, are you still calling for schools to be closed because of the uncontrolled Covid transmission?

So according to the shinners "you're somehow wrong" and even when you yourself say you can assume wrong, you're right.

Fcukin hell. Just get quit already.

dundalkfc10

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can any of the SF lads tell me where SF stand on the recent calls by The IFA to legalise marijuana?

https://twitter.com/Ginosocialist/status/1318145606297276420?s=20

Do they still have that old reflexive anti-drugs Provo thing in the party DNA?

I'd say they might go for it. FG and LV def would as he has told us, He has smoked the stuff when he was younger

McMurphy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it at all - unless a shinner is involved.

How you think I misinterpreted this is beyond me. Please stop embarrassing yourself blanch.

So according to the shinners "you're somehow wrong" and even when you yourself say you can assume wrong, you're right.

Fcukin hell. Just get quit already.

Assuming something correctly for the vast majority of people I meet and being corrected for the outliers again is not a problem.

If you are going to continue with this pointless parsing, analysing and selective quoting of my posts in an attempt to find minor inconsistencies to create Eureka moments for yourself, off you go, I am not going to engage in your silliness any longer. If it makes you happy, just do it for yourself.

blanch152 wrote: »

Assuming something correctly for the vast majority of people I meet and being corrected for the outliers again is not a problem.

If you are going to continue with this pointless parsing, analysing and selective quoting of my posts in an attempt to find minor inconsistencies to create Eureka moments for yourself, off you go, I am not going to engage in your silliness any longer. If it makes you happy, just do it for yourself.

Why be in danger of making a mistake blanch...go with the partitionist inferiority complex, self deprecating choice and assume we are all British 'again'.

BTW I can guarantee you if you travelled the north of this country assuming people as Northern Irish and not Irish, you would find more than a few 'outliers'. You once again reveal you know little to nothing about the place.