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Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

Ireland trains

I created this thread because there is due to be alot of investment set to come in irish rail over the next few years (hopefully)
• 250 Bi-mode coaches
• 230 EMU coaches
• new enterprise fleet (possibly eletric)
• 41 new 22000 class centre coaches

The 2700 refurbishment has been scrapped
The new bi-modes and EMUs will be of the same design
The new 22k coaches will be to lenghten the sets which will increasing capacity and free up sets.
Older darts likley to be retired

Eletrification to Drogheda, Maynooth, M3 Parkway and Hazelhatch.
Quad track northern line
Dart route Docklands-Heuston
Reduce intercity journey times.
Is there anything that anyone could add.

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goingnowhere

Battery all the way

IE 222

tabbey wrote: »

Will talent fit the Irish loading gauge?

Not sure but one of the big selling points over the Talent 2 is wider bodies.

IE 222

Markcheese wrote: »

Is the battery power idea really only for when trains are in station ? ,And diesel electric most of the rest of the time ?

Supposedly the battery units are only envisioned to run DART services in advance of OHLE been completed. IE are bringing them in to bring forward DART expansion plans and as a back up plan should the government delay or pull out of funding any electrification projects.

It does seem rather wasteful and stupid not to use them beyond the OHLE network to serve the likes of Dundalk, Mullingar, Portlaoise/Carlow, Arklow/Gorey and even Navan if built.

IE 222 wrote: »

I'm not sure the Talent 3 can operate high floor. I believe the new design of wider bodies is based on low floor design. The Talent is also restricted to 6 car lengths. Any brochure trains will need to be adapted for Irish rails either way so maybe design enhancements are possible.

Ah right, I totally forgot about that!!

I did read that the Aventra can take the same battery packs as the Talent 3, modular design, so perhaps shorter BEMU Aventra's for the regional services like Cork would make more sense. Would help that 15 years from now, we would have lots of experience with the Aventra and it's batteries if they were too win the Dart+ contract.

Of course, by then hopefully lots similar options from other manufacturers too like Mireo as you say.

goingnowhere

Irish Rail spec is 4 car + 8 car, 20m train, non articulated

There are 6 qualified bidders, the usual suspects of Rotem and Mitsui are NOT on the shortlist...

Bombardier Aventra is the closest to spec from current production trains and has the advantage of UK approvals which helps as IE standards are similar. However the Aventra is far from reliable

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rail spec is 4 car + 8 car, 20m train, non articulated

There are 6 qualified bidders, the usual suspects of Rotem and Mitsui are NOT on the shortlist...

Bombardier Aventra is the closest to spec from current production trains and has the advantage of UK approvals which helps as IE standards are similar. However the Aventra is far from reliable

Aventra sounds like a perfect match, join the list of screw ups..

The usual suspects have more sense not making the cut and saving themselves lot of trouble down the line.

sdanseo

Why on earth is the IÉ spec non articulated? Walkthrough design greatly increases capacity and capacity is a key problem.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rail spec is 4 car + 8 car, 20m train, non articulated

There are 6 qualified bidders, the usual suspects of Rotem and Mitsui are NOT on the shortlist...

Bombardier Aventra is the closest to spec from current production trains and has the advantage of UK approvals which helps as IE standards are similar. However the Aventra is far from reliable

Any source or details?

IE 222

bk wrote: »

Ah right, I totally forgot about that!!

I did read that the Aventra can take the same battery packs as the Talent 3, modular design, so perhaps shorter BEMU Aventra's for the regional services like Cork would make more sense. Would help that 15 years from now, we would have lots of experience with the Aventra and it's batteries if they were too win the Dart+ contract.

Of course, by then hopefully lots similar options from other manufacturers too like Mireo as you say.

Aventra hasn't exactly been a roaring success in the UK. I'd also be sceptical that Bombardier have designed and launched a new series Talent for BEMU markets and only have it as optional extra in Aventra via MITRAC. The Talent is designed wholly on BEMU capabilities rather than just having MITRAC added to the Talent 2. They also claim a much larger range capability with a add on product compared to a purpose built product, not saying its impossible but I'd be wary of such claims.

goingnowhere

sdanseo wrote: »

Why on earth is the IÉ spec non articulated? Walkthrough design greatly increases capacity and capacity is a key problem.

Any source or details?

It’s suggested in the pre qualification questionnaire

will operate in both full length and half-length formations (i.e. where a full length formation will be between 160m and 168m in length) and will be required to meet other gauging requirements of the Irish Rail network.

This screams I want a 8 coach 20-21m unit made of two half sets, the 8530 mock up drawing from one vendor was a 20m regular coach.

If you had 8 coaches in 160m then you got gauging issues so need a narrower coach with articulations you also would exceed the nominal 18.9 ton axle load limit very quickly, 175 passengers at full is 10 tons and the batteries well that’s another 4 tons, add the bodyshell and some equipment and you are in trouble

So you are down to 5/10 car options so more bodyshells but again the weight issue comes into play and you have more space lost to crumple zones. Its workable if you work off the Stadler Merseyrail 777 spec but the BEMU need things get tight

For reference if you go to Drogheda 2600,2700,2800,29000 all have exactly the same jacking points so the whole train set can be lifted automatically. It’s fun to watch.

Its not impossible but having to lug the batteries around and Irish Rail's infrastructure limitations makes articulation tricky to work out.

dublinman1990

The 41 additional intercity railcars earmarked for the Intercity network has been covered in Budget 2021.

IE 222

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The 41 additional intercity railcars earmarked for the Intercity network has been covered in Budget 2021.

Considering they've already been ordered and arriving next year they've no choice but to pay for them.

Eamonn just beefing up his achievements list.

IE 222

Kisoghe received funding for re-commissioning.

Probably needed just to clear the reinforced anti caravan defences.

BonnieSituation

Fantastic. Just in time for me to not live in Lucan anymore.

IE 222

Is the stop already factored into the timetable?

Often see trains arriving early and waiting in Clondalkin and Hazelhatch.

DoctorPan

IE 222 wrote: »

Is the stop already factored into the timetable?

Often see trains arriving early and waiting in Clondalkin and Hazelhatch.

According to my timetable friend, Kisghoe was built into the timetable at the last refresh.

IE 222

DoctorPan wrote: »

According to my timetable friend, Kisghoe was built into the timetable at the last refresh.

Should be straightforward enough to open it. It was earmarked to open the end of this year. Is that still the aim do you know?

I wonder will the NTA put bus stops for the 151 at the station.

L1011

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

BonnieSituation

L1011 wrote: »

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

Sure the 151 will be serving it before then.

IE 222

L1011 wrote: »

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

I know but in the meantime some stops for the 151 would be useful. They should also look at a shuttle bus running from Woodies down to Grange Castle via Willsbrook Rd until the W4 is up and running.

BonnieSituation

IE 222 wrote: »

I know but in the meantime some stops for the 151 would be useful. They should also look at a shuttle bus running from Woodies down to Grange Castle via Willsbrook Rd until the W4 is up and running.

Oh if that bus existed in my youth, I'd have gotten it every day. The left turn at the Penny Hill every evening broke my heart.

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

10min journey to Heuston... Instead 25 to 40min travelling in and around Foxborough on a bad day.

And then the Hermitage detour at Christmas competing with LV shoppers...

And then the N4/M50 junction...

I'm getting hives thinking of it.

IE 222

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh if that bus existed in my youth, I'd have gotten it every day. The left turn at the Penny Hill every evening broke my heart.

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

10min journey to Heuston... Instead 25 to 40min travelling in and around Foxborough on a bad day.

And then the Hermitage detour at Christmas competing with LV shoppers...

And then the N4/M50 junction...

I'm getting hives thinking of it.

Be interesting to see what the up take on it is. Do many use Adamstown or Clondalkin as alternative or are they just that bit too far? The 350 parking spaces should help draw more into using it as well. Hopefully they plan on leaving the pedestrian entrance from old car open as well, that would leave it within easy reach for Rossberry. I think that land was given by developer on a temporary basis though. Maybe there is a deal in place to allow for a entrance into the station in return for a pathway.

BonnieSituation

Clondalkin is a no go at all. Way too far and no link to it.

Adamstown again is too far in the wrong direction despite the direct link in the 25B.

Kishoge is a brisk 15-20min walk from my parents and it's only 2 or so min from Foxboro on the 151.

There's no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't have been alone in using it as an option at any point since 2008 if it were open, to avoid the chaos of the morning commute from that side of Lucan.

You don't know misery until you've waited at the bus stop at Griffeen Avenue (Moy Glas) while for 20min you watch as the 25B crawls up from Griffeen Avenue and the 25A crawls up from Griffeen Road.

The priority on the junction with the Outer Ring Road in the morning, would bring tears to a statue.

tabbey

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

In 2010, Standing on the bridge at Kishoge, I heard "please stand back behind the yellow lines, train now approaching".

No doubt, all this equipment will need repair or replacement after ten years of disuse.
The original was funded by a developer, probably long since gone.

BonnieSituation

What's even more irritating is that the reason for not opening Kishoge was because of the lack of development in the Clonburris SDZ.

But now they're opening it with no development bar the schools, in the SDZ. [Cairn Homes plans notwithstanding]

It's almost like they could have opened it and the car park over a decade a go and let the locals use it.

IE 222

Did they say how much they got to open it. There was talk of it costing €2 million or so to open it before.

BonnieSituation

I heard that 2m figure before. Was reported back in 2017.

As always with these things the longer you leave it idle, the more it costs to open.

You'll enjoy this read:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2055847097

Ireland trains

Some of what was mentioned during the oireachtas transport committee 15/02/2021
•DART southwest & costal due for consultation this year
•41 ICR coaches due mid 2022
•Cork line rehabilitation works commenced
•Navan rail line could be completed in 3 years
•Limerick- limerick JN dual track. Approx €60-€80m, <2 years completion
•New Enterprise fleet of 9 trains by 2026, hope to be funded by SEUPB + line improvments
•Phased improvements forCork suburban rail: 2023 cascaded fleet, then 20 min frequency, 2027/28 15min freq, through running cobh/midleton - Mallow
•LSMATS due to be published in April, new rail stations

Jamie2k9

Irish Rail have released 2027 Strategy. Quick scan pg 33 details proposed freq:

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/company-information/iarnrod-eireann-strategy

Dublin-Cork (30 mins freq at peak times)
Dublin-Belfast (hourly service)
Dublin-Liomerick (extra direct, peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Galway (hourly service)
Dublin-Waterford (hourly service)
Dublin-Westport (2 hourly service)
Dublin-Sligo (2 hourly service, hourly peak on part of route)
Dublin-Tralee (2 hourly service, hourly peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Rosslare (build to 2 hourly service)

dowlingm

Seeing 4 track Hazelhatch-Kildare and 3 track Portarlington-Portarlington is great (by 2040) but to facilitate the InterCity southern upgrades planned I would argue that a down payment needs to be done in concert with Heuston-ParkWest to avoid just shifting the congestion point, with shovels in the ground ASAP, by which I mean
(Overall) 3 track from Hazelhatch to Cherryville Jct
(Specifically) definition of whether it is going to be along the current corridor or partially with high speed bypass chords to go around difficult to widen sections like around Sallins and/or Newbridge stations.

Of course on a general level it is depressing to see things which were promised to be done in previous plans and announcements (off the top of my head at least six of the CMATS stations, plus Sixmilebridge loop) and lack of ambition (no Navan passenger)

Zebra3

Ireland trains wrote: »

•Navan rail line could be completed in 3 years

Could be.

But better to string people along than actually make a decision on which towns en route win and which lose out.

Political cowardice.