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Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

Ireland trains

I created this thread because there is due to be alot of investment set to come in irish rail over the next few years (hopefully)
• 250 Bi-mode coaches
• 230 EMU coaches
• new enterprise fleet (possibly eletric)
• 41 new 22000 class centre coaches

The 2700 refurbishment has been scrapped
The new bi-modes and EMUs will be of the same design
The new 22k coaches will be to lenghten the sets which will increasing capacity and free up sets.
Older darts likley to be retired

Eletrification to Drogheda, Maynooth, M3 Parkway and Hazelhatch.
Quad track northern line
Dart route Docklands-Heuston
Reduce intercity journey times.
Is there anything that anyone could add.

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Del.Monte

donvito99 wrote: »

The 22Ks disprove your point.

If they surveyed the public, they'd only get a diatribe about the Mark IIIs and Park Royals from other professional whingers.

In what respect do the 22000s disprove my point? Is a professional whinger the opposite of a professional apologist?

end of the road

there was a lot to learn in relation to comfort from the mkii/iii and park royals in fairness, dispite them being of a different era over all.
seating based on the old seating in those, coupled with the modern features like plug sockets that exist in the 22k and you have yourself an actual inter city train and real high quality regional train befitting of the fares being asked to be paid.
anyway, some people going on about mkii/iiis is not an excuse not to survey the public who will have to use these trains, or be simply lumbered with them if they are aweful to travel on.
not to mention actually have to ultimately pay for them.

donvito99

Del.Monte wrote: »

Was there any consultation with rail users about the design of these new carriages - no need to answer. Personally I wouldn't trust CIE to design a tea trolley much less be involved in ordering vast amounts of new rolling stock given their record when it comes to wasting money. The company is moribund and should be replaced with something fit for the 21st century.

The 22Ks disprove your point.

If they surveyed the public, they'd only get a diatribe about the Mark IIIs and Park Royals from other professional whingers.

Del.Monte

Was there any consultation with rail users about the design of these new carriages - no need to answer. Personally I wouldn't trust CIE to design a tea trolley much less be involved in ordering vast amounts of new rolling stock given their record when it comes to wasting money. The company is moribund and should be replaced with something fit for the 21st century.

Ireland trains

Cyclist.ie saying that Jim Meade has said that there will be bike capacity and bike storage on their new fleet of 750 carraiges.
https://mobile.twitter.com/cyclistie/status/1372901257606803457
Not sure how reliable the source is but 750 is a lot more than the previously stated 600 carraiges (even if thr 41 ICR coaches are included)
The tender process started nearly two years ago now and we have yet to see an order placed.

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

that's too close to Fairview to make much difference. If a dart leaves Connolly 9 mins ahead of the Enterprise, the latter will catch up around Raheny.

actually I'm wrong there - the loop at Clongriffen is probably sufficient for working around a 10 minute Dart, but there would need to be a loop further in if the Dart frequency increased.

Jamie2k9

Pixel Eater wrote: »

This looks great although won't an hourly service to Belfast would be tough with the planned increased frequency of DART services plus its extension to Drogheda? I see there's a passing loop planned for Clongriffin, even with this and resignaling it will be hard to fit all those services onto a dual track line with so many stations

I'm sure they could squeeze an hourly schedule today if they really needed to and had the fleet but would be wise to wait for passing loops and in future adding an extra track or two along sections.

Seeing 4 track Hazelhatch-Kildare and 3 track Portarlington-Portarlington is great (by 2040) but to facilitate the InterCity southern upgrades planned I would argue that a down payment needs to be done in concert with Heuston-ParkWest to avoid just shifting the congestion point, with shovels in the ground ASAP, by which I mean
(Overall) 3 track from Hazelhatch to Cherryville Jct
(Specifically) definition of whether it is going to be along the current corridor or partially with high speed bypass chords to go around difficult to widen sections like around Sallins and/or Newbridge stations.

Of course on a general level it is depressing to see things which were promised to be done in previous plans and announcements (off the top of my head at least six of the CMATS stations, plus Sixmilebridge loop) and lack of ambition (no Navan passenger)

IMO Sallins and Nass will move towards Dublin slightly and you could have the 4 tracks (2 through platforms, 1 terminating). The only issue is that bridge and the changes involved for putting 4 lines through. Newbridge is tight but again its possible. Protected station buildings might be an obstruction.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if the four had to merge into two lines at Sallins to avoid the bridge issue and then back to 4. The service impact would be zero.

Its hard to see any reroute or tunnel options on the table.

Getting 4 tracks to Sallins would allow them run the type of schedule above.
_____

If people don't follow the WRC pages, Oranmore loop have received funding of €10 million under URDF.

Zebra3

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Which would be pretty tough with all the houses around there so close to the line. Maybe taking a chuck out of Clontarf golf course between Clontarf Road and Killester stations?

I'd say there'd be space on the southern approach to Raheny.

L1011

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Is there any mention in the fleet plan of what is to be done with the 2700s? Awful shame to have not even mid life units lying idle. I understand that a full refit was priced and was insanely expensive but they should be looking at the idea of adapting them into sets of 4 or 6 for use with 2 power cars, or making them into unpowered intermediates in an ICR.

There is no cheap option - there is basic work required to make them usable in any way

loyatemu

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Which would be pretty tough with all the houses around there so close to the line. Maybe taking a chuck out of Clontarf golf course between Clontarf Road and Killester stations?

that's too close to Fairview to make much difference. If a dart leaves Connolly 9 mins ahead of the Enterprise, the latter will catch up around Raheny.

TheBoyConor

Is there any mention in the fleet plan of what is to be done with the 2700s? Awful shame to have not even mid life units lying idle. I understand that a full refit was priced and was insanely expensive but they should be looking at the idea of adapting them into sets of 4 or 6 for use with 2 power cars, or making them into unpowered intermediates in an ICR.

Pixel Eater

loyatemu wrote: »

needs a passing loop somewhere around Raheny to fit around the 10 min Dart.

Which would be pretty tough with all the houses around there so close to the line. Maybe taking a chuck out of Clontarf golf course between Clontarf Road and Killester stations?

loyatemu

Pixel Eater wrote: »

This looks great although won't an hourly service to Belfast would be tough with the planned increased frequency of DART services plus its extension to Drogheda? I see there's a passing loop planned for Clongriffin, even with this and resignaling it will be hard to fit all those services onto a dual track line with so many stations

needs a passing loop somewhere around Raheny to fit around the 10 min Dart.

Pixel Eater

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Irish Rail have released 2027 Strategy. Quick scan pg 33 details proposed freq:

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/company-information/iarnrod-eireann-strategy

Dublin-Cork (30 mins freq at peak times)
Dublin-Belfast (hourly service)
Dublin-Liomerick (extra direct, peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Galway (hourly service)
Dublin-Waterford (hourly service)
Dublin-Westport (2 hourly service)
Dublin-Sligo (2 hourly service, hourly peak on part of route)
Dublin-Tralee (2 hourly service, hourly peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Rosslare (build to 2 hourly service)

This looks great although won't an hourly service to Belfast would be tough with the planned increased frequency of DART services plus its extension to Drogheda? I see there's a passing loop planned for Clongriffin, even with this and resignaling it will be hard to fit all those services onto a dual track line with so many stations

Zebra3

Ireland trains wrote: »

•Navan rail line could be completed in 3 years

Could be.

But better to string people along than actually make a decision on which towns en route win and which lose out.

Political cowardice.

dowlingm

Seeing 4 track Hazelhatch-Kildare and 3 track Portarlington-Portarlington is great (by 2040) but to facilitate the InterCity southern upgrades planned I would argue that a down payment needs to be done in concert with Heuston-ParkWest to avoid just shifting the congestion point, with shovels in the ground ASAP, by which I mean
(Overall) 3 track from Hazelhatch to Cherryville Jct
(Specifically) definition of whether it is going to be along the current corridor or partially with high speed bypass chords to go around difficult to widen sections like around Sallins and/or Newbridge stations.

Of course on a general level it is depressing to see things which were promised to be done in previous plans and announcements (off the top of my head at least six of the CMATS stations, plus Sixmilebridge loop) and lack of ambition (no Navan passenger)

Jamie2k9

Irish Rail have released 2027 Strategy. Quick scan pg 33 details proposed freq:

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/company-information/iarnrod-eireann-strategy

Dublin-Cork (30 mins freq at peak times)
Dublin-Belfast (hourly service)
Dublin-Liomerick (extra direct, peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Galway (hourly service)
Dublin-Waterford (hourly service)
Dublin-Westport (2 hourly service)
Dublin-Sligo (2 hourly service, hourly peak on part of route)
Dublin-Tralee (2 hourly service, hourly peak with extra Cork)
Dublin-Rosslare (build to 2 hourly service)

Ireland trains

Some of what was mentioned during the oireachtas transport committee 15/02/2021
•DART southwest & costal due for consultation this year
•41 ICR coaches due mid 2022
•Cork line rehabilitation works commenced
•Navan rail line could be completed in 3 years
•Limerick- limerick JN dual track. Approx €60-€80m, <2 years completion
•New Enterprise fleet of 9 trains by 2026, hope to be funded by SEUPB + line improvments
•Phased improvements forCork suburban rail: 2023 cascaded fleet, then 20 min frequency, 2027/28 15min freq, through running cobh/midleton - Mallow
•LSMATS due to be published in April, new rail stations

BonnieSituation

I heard that 2m figure before. Was reported back in 2017.

As always with these things the longer you leave it idle, the more it costs to open.

You'll enjoy this read:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2055847097

IE 222

Did they say how much they got to open it. There was talk of it costing €2 million or so to open it before.

BonnieSituation

What's even more irritating is that the reason for not opening Kishoge was because of the lack of development in the Clonburris SDZ.

But now they're opening it with no development bar the schools, in the SDZ. [Cairn Homes plans notwithstanding]

It's almost like they could have opened it and the car park over a decade a go and let the locals use it.

tabbey

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

In 2010, Standing on the bridge at Kishoge, I heard "please stand back behind the yellow lines, train now approaching".

No doubt, all this equipment will need repair or replacement after ten years of disuse.
The original was funded by a developer, probably long since gone.

BonnieSituation

Clondalkin is a no go at all. Way too far and no link to it.

Adamstown again is too far in the wrong direction despite the direct link in the 25B.

Kishoge is a brisk 15-20min walk from my parents and it's only 2 or so min from Foxboro on the 151.

There's no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't have been alone in using it as an option at any point since 2008 if it were open, to avoid the chaos of the morning commute from that side of Lucan.

You don't know misery until you've waited at the bus stop at Griffeen Avenue (Moy Glas) while for 20min you watch as the 25B crawls up from Griffeen Avenue and the 25A crawls up from Griffeen Road.

The priority on the junction with the Outer Ring Road in the morning, would bring tears to a statue.

IE 222

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh if that bus existed in my youth, I'd have gotten it every day. The left turn at the Penny Hill every evening broke my heart.

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

10min journey to Heuston... Instead 25 to 40min travelling in and around Foxborough on a bad day.

And then the Hermitage detour at Christmas competing with LV shoppers...

And then the N4/M50 junction...

I'm getting hives thinking of it.

Be interesting to see what the up take on it is. Do many use Adamstown or Clondalkin as alternative or are they just that bit too far? The 350 parking spaces should help draw more into using it as well. Hopefully they plan on leaving the pedestrian entrance from old car open as well, that would leave it within easy reach for Rossberry. I think that land was given by developer on a temporary basis though. Maybe there is a deal in place to allow for a entrance into the station in return for a pathway.

BonnieSituation

IE 222 wrote: »

I know but in the meantime some stops for the 151 would be useful. They should also look at a shuttle bus running from Woodies down to Grange Castle via Willsbrook Rd until the W4 is up and running.

Oh if that bus existed in my youth, I'd have gotten it every day. The left turn at the Penny Hill every evening broke my heart.

Kishoge has melted my face for over a decade looking at it idle.

10min journey to Heuston... Instead 25 to 40min travelling in and around Foxborough on a bad day.

And then the Hermitage detour at Christmas competing with LV shoppers...

And then the N4/M50 junction...

I'm getting hives thinking of it.

IE 222

L1011 wrote: »

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

I know but in the meantime some stops for the 151 would be useful. They should also look at a shuttle bus running from Woodies down to Grange Castle via Willsbrook Rd until the W4 is up and running.

BonnieSituation

L1011 wrote: »

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

Sure the 151 will be serving it before then.

L1011

The station is to be served in the replacement BusConnects route(s) anyway

IE 222

DoctorPan wrote: »

According to my timetable friend, Kisghoe was built into the timetable at the last refresh.

Should be straightforward enough to open it. It was earmarked to open the end of this year. Is that still the aim do you know?

I wonder will the NTA put bus stops for the 151 at the station.

DoctorPan

IE 222 wrote: »

Is the stop already factored into the timetable?

Often see trains arriving early and waiting in Clondalkin and Hazelhatch.

According to my timetable friend, Kisghoe was built into the timetable at the last refresh.