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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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whippet

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when we can just buy a car online like what Tesla does

that's no problem when all you want is a Tesla - and don't need to trade in a car etc

[Deleted User]

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Some absolute gems in that article.

The motor industry here is desperate to eek out every last petrol/diesel sale they can before the inevitable happens...

As a country do we really need to be putting 840,000+ new cars on the road each and every year????

How many drivers do we have in Ireland out of a population of 5m? surely only about 2m of us actually drive??

Add to this, insurance companies who refuse to cover vehicles over a certain age, thus forcing OK cars to be scrapped and replaced before their time.
We don't that many new cars every year, we should be designing them to last longer, something that will be easier with Electric powertrains.

AndyBoBandy

I wonder what the insurance industry's excuse will be in about 6-8 years when there's a slurry of 10+ year old electric cars on the 2nd hand market being traded, and folks looking for insurance on them.....

the_amazing_raisin

whippet wrote: »

that's no problem when all you want is a Tesla - and don't need to trade in a car etc

I don't want a Tesla which is why I'd like other manufacturers to allow online ordering

You can get around the trade in situation with an online valuation and collection or drop off system. It'd mean you don't have to go to the dealership and put up with a bunch of salesmen who try to upsell you a load of garbage

AndyBoBandy

Ford seem to be blitzing Facebook with ads for their ‘Electric’ range, yet calling them ‘Mild Hybrids’

Looks like a bit of a pi$$ take in fairness.......

hashtag bring on what Toyota were doing 15 years ago..........

ELM327

It's essentially a start stop system. That's ridiculous. Almost as bad as self charging

the_amazing_raisin

Customer: "Is this car electric?"

Ford: "Yeah, it's got a battery" :pac::pac::pac:

zg3409

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Customer: "Is this car electric?"

Ford: "Yeah, it's got a battery" :pac::pac::pac:

I commented in their Facebook ad that they don't sell full electric and listed the suppliers, non ford, who do. I love that they leave comments open for people to give glowing comments like simi etc.

the_amazing_raisin

Interesting article about EVs on rte

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1010/1170737-electric-vehicles-ireland/

For once there wasn't the usual brain dead comments about the range, just some genuine points about the public charging network. Overall a pretty well balanced article.

Hopefully we'll see more like it

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Another car I really like the idea of. I present to you the WULING HONGGUANG MINI EV

Warning! Chinese/Mandarin Audio

A four seater or two-plus-two for more corpulent people out there.
Another car that could replace your old second car which is on its last legs.

Sales go from strength to strength. Projected half a million units will be sold in the next year.
https://pushevs.com/2020/10/09/wuling-hong-guang-mini-ev-sales-keep-rising/
These are the car that the Smart should have been.
Smarts are hugely popular in old historic european cities but they're too expensive and the earlier ones had engines which were like a timebomb in that you'd get 60k km out of the 600cc engine and 70 to 80k km out of the 700cc one.

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sales go from strength to strength. Projected half a million units will be sold in the next year.
https://pushevs.com/2020/10/09/wuling-hong-guang-mini-ev-sales-keep-rising/
These are the car that the Smart should have been.
Smarts are hugely popular in old historic european cities but they're too expensive and the earlier ones had engines which were like a timebomb in that you'd get 60k km out of the 600cc engine and 70 to 80k km out of the 700cc one.

Personally I think 'city' EVs would be a lot more popular of they were part of a car sharing or leasing scheme. Pay a monthly fee and you get a city car for driving around during the week. If you need to take a weekend away, then you can swap for a longer range vehicle. And something like an electric can for the trips to IKEA or when you're moving apartment

cannco253

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/has-the-motor-trade-been-sidelined-in-tax-debate-1.4379503

"Are electric cars clean?
Simply switching to electric power for cars isn’t necessarily the easy way out of this, either. While the consumer-facing difficulties of high pricing and sparse charging facilities are well known, this week Polestar - Volvo’s spinoff electric car maker - shared data that will make unpleasant reading for many. Calling for more transparency on a car’s environmental impact, Polestar demonstrated that because electric cars use more CO2 to be built than a conventional car, they need to be driven for high mileages to, effectively, put them in ‘carbon credit’ against a petrol or diesel model. Indeed, you’d need to drive for around 50,000km before the total emissions of a combustion-engined car outweigh the total emissions for an electric model. “Car manufacturers have not been clear in the past with consumers on the environmental impact of their products,” says Thomas Ingenlath, Polestar’s chief executive. “That’s not good enough. We need to be honest, even if it makes for uncomfortable reading.”"

liamog

50,000km isnt much in the scheme of things, after about 3 years you've covered the difference.

the_amazing_raisin

cannco253 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/has-the-motor-trade-been-sidelined-in-tax-debate-1.4379503

"Are electric cars clean?
Simply switching to electric power for cars isn’t necessarily the easy way out of this, either. While the consumer-facing difficulties of high pricing and sparse charging facilities are well known, this week Polestar - Volvo’s spinoff electric car maker - shared data that will make unpleasant reading for many. Calling for more transparency on a car’s environmental impact, Polestar demonstrated that because electric cars use more CO2 to be built than a conventional car, they need to be driven for high mileages to, effectively, put them in ‘carbon credit’ against a petrol or diesel model. Indeed, you’d need to drive for around 50,000km before the total emissions of a combustion-engined car outweigh the total emissions for an electric model. “Car manufacturers have not been clear in the past with consumers on the environmental impact of their products,” says Thomas Ingenlath, Polestar’s chief executive. “That’s not good enough. We need to be honest, even if it makes for uncomfortable reading.”"

I think the basis of that report got discredited some time ago. Basically they were assuming the CO2 emissions from battery manufacturing were a lot higher than they actually are.

They also only counted the tailpipe emissions of the ICE vehicle, not the lifetime emissions of the fuel (extraction, refining, transport, etc.)

ELM327

That's a good recognition, that no new car is carbon neutral.
The most "green" thing to do is to keep your old car on the road.

[Deleted User]

Quite frankly, to manufacture any vehicle produces pollution, the key to reducing overall pollution levels is to manufacture vehicles that have a long and reliable operating life and can still be serviced when they reach 20 years or so in age.
Also that they're not forced off the roads by excessive or lack of insurance.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Quite frankly, to manufacture any vehicle produces pollution, the key to reducing overall pollution levels is to manufacture vehicles that have a long and reliable operating life and can still be serviced when they reach 20 years or so in age.
Also that they're not forced off the roads by excessive or lack of insurance.

Agree 110%

This is why I disagree with scrappage schemes. It's enforced white goods disposal culture

Cyrus

ELM327 wrote: »

That's a good recognition, that no new car is carbon neutral.
The most "green" thing to do is to keep your old car on the road.

absolutely but everyone is doing their best to make that as difficult as possible, govt, insurance cos etc

redcup342

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Personally I think 'city' EVs would be a lot more popular of they were part of a car sharing or leasing scheme. Pay a monthly fee and you get a city car for driving around during the week. If you need to take a weekend away, then you can swap for a longer range vehicle. And something like an electric can for the trips to IKEA or when you're moving apartment

Stuttgart and Amsterdam have Car2Go(Sharenow) Smart EQs, really nice for the City.

For longer rentals the Carsharing model doesn't fit, you are better off with traditional renting.

They need to charge a significant amount to make it cost effective.

Rental Companies are more geared up for it, Sixt have Sixt Share and Sixt Rentla for this but they are two very different businesses.

McGiver

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I think the basis of that report got discredited some time ago. Basically they were assuming the CO2 emissions from battery manufacturing were a lot higher than they actually are.

They also only counted the tailpipe emissions of the ICE vehicle, not the lifetime emissions of the fuel (extraction, refining, transport, etc.)

Correct. There were other reports since then which reconciled that and actually showed that CO2 emissions from battery production are lower than originally estimated. And not including cost of hydrocarbon extraction, refining & transport is a nice manipulation.

Now, as the grid gets more renewable year by year, as more green energy is used in car manufacturing (especially Europe) and as battery production is either moving to Europe (already happening) or as battery production uses more green energy, the compound effect of all these are making EVs much less carbon intensive in a divergent way compared to ICE - because you have three components getting green/less carbon intensive (car, battery and fuel) for EVs whereas for ICE you have only one component (the car).

the_amazing_raisin

McGiver wrote: »

Correct. There were other reports since then which reconciled that and actually showed that CO2 emissions from battery production are lower than originally estimated. And not including cost of hydrocarbon extraction, refining & transport is a nice manipulation.

Now, as the grid gets more renewable year by year, as more green energy is used in car manufacturing (especially Europe) and as battery production is either moving to Europe (already happening) or as battery production uses more green energy, the compound effect of all these are making EVs much less carbon intensive in a divergent way compared to ICE - because you have three components getting green/less carbon intensive (car, battery and fuel) for EVs whereas for ICE you have only one component (the car).

I think there's too much of this "EVs are bad for the environment" nonsense.

Realistically, you can't lead a totally zero impact life. Essentially to do that you'd have to stand still and do nothing until you die (quite quickly due to dehydration). Even then, you're body will emit CO2 as it decomposes

So it's really a question of minimising your impact on the environment around you and trying to repair and damage you can't avoid. It's a lot easier to do this with an EV than any ICE car because the environmental impact is lower to begin with, there's less damage to undo

I agree with some other commentators that living in a throwaway culture is a major problem, but there are ways to ensure your old car is disposed of properly and recycled. There are far worse aspects of throwaway culture like single use plastics which are more difficult and urgent to deal with IMO

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

Now, as the grid gets more renewable year by year, as more green energy is used in car manufacturing (especially Europe) and as battery production is either moving to Europe (already happening) or as battery production uses more green energy, the compound effect of all these are making EVs much less carbon intensive in a divergent way compared to ICE - because you have three components getting green/less carbon intensive (car, battery and fuel) for EVs whereas for ICE you have only one component (the car).

Ironically there's a massive explosion of solar in China that means the "CO2 Cost" of the battery manufacturing is dropping substantially, meanwhile we're producing batteries in Poland which is probably Europe's dirtiest grid.

[Deleted User]

In theory, battery production should become a virtuous circle of ever increasing clean energy as the electricity generated from clean harvesting systems gets stored in the batteries and is used to power the manufacturing of more batteries.

[Deleted User]

Another anonymously attractive Chinese EV.
I present to you the Ora ES11 (Good Cat).
Selling for around €13k and maybe €20k if it reaches Europe.

ELM327

Alfa Romeo will never allow that to be sold here. Blatant copyright infringement #china

[Deleted User]

ELM327 wrote: »

Alfa Romeo will never allow that to be sold here. Blatant copyright infringement #china

They'd need to stand in line behind Porsche(Taycan), Audi(A1) and Mercedes(A-Class).
Anyhow, the Mito is out of production now and looks more "special needs" than this.

AndyBoBandy

Front end is also very Tesla Model3/Y like.....

Its kind of how I'd imagine a Tesla compact would look!!

timsey tiger

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Front end is also very Tesla Model3/Y like.....

Its kind of how I'd imagine a Tesla compact would look!!

I think it is a lot more attractive up front than a tesla compact woulld be, there isn't a hint of frog off it.

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Front end is also very Tesla Model3/Y like.....

Its kind of how I'd imagine a Tesla compact would look!!

It's like a Model 3 and a Mini had an illegitimate child!

slave1

Electric Buses in Ireland, nothing new.....1979 article

/www.rte.ie/archives/2019/0926/1078377-electric-vehicles/