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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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liamog

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I tried working out if the paid eCars plan is worth the expense and the numbers I came up with were pretty dire.
Maybe someone could check my maths to ensure I'm not miles (or kilometres) off?

You're correct, it's 124.3kWh/month to break even €4.60 / (30.5c-26.8c)
Even with two cars on the one account it doesn't make sense for us to continue with the membership.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

You're correct, it's 124.3kWh/month to break even €4.60 / (30.5c-26.8c)
Even with two cars on the one account it doesn't make sense for us to continue with the membership.

Thanks for double checking that, it seems that it only makes sense if you're doing 100% of your charging from ESB. And even then it's pretty bad value

I was doing the same exercise with Ionity rates and at least then the break even point is around 1500-2000km which is reasonable for someone who would be on the road a lot. Arguably that's because the Ionity base rate is so high to begin with but I think we'll agree that the quality of Ionity is better than ESB

MJohnston

The subscription account is surely only designed for those who can't home charge?

ELM327

You get the AC and DC with the subscription so would have to include that too.
Otherwise I agree, I wont be continuing it.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

You get the AC and DC with the subscription so would have to include that too.
Otherwise I agree, I wont be continuing it.

Break even on AC only is slightly worse, the price difference is 3.8c/kWh instead of 3.7c/kWh.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

The subscription account is surely only designed for those who can't home charge?

Well it says frequent user on the eCars site, not exclusive user. I guess the mindset is different since the likes of Ionity are targeted at long distance drivers whereas ESB is mostly AC chargers probably designed for those who can't charge at home

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

You get the AC and DC with the subscription so would have to include that too.
Otherwise I agree, I wont be continuing it.

True, I focused on DC charging since that's my only use for ESB, but it'll be different for others. However the price difference on AC is roughly the same and 8000km is almost an entire years driving for quite a few people

I'll definitely be cancelling as soon as the free subscription is up

EDIT: Just checked my account and it says the subscription ends 17/11/2020. didn't it get extended to end of 2020?

slave1

MJohnston wrote: »

The subscription account is surely only designed for those who can't home charge?

Don't assume eCars knew what they were doing when they implemented their system

AndyBoBandy

MJohnston wrote: »

The subscription account is surely only designed for those who can't home charge?

Those who can't home charge, as well as all the travelling salesmen who are all driving Passat/A4 TDi's & 520d's

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

Month 20 of a 3 year plan, based on the progress of the other components of the plan we don't have reason to doubt they'll deliver what they promised.

I do :pac:.

I'll wager when we're 40 months into this 36 month plan, nothing much will have changed. It might be a good bet actually, like ELM's Chademo vs CCS bet.
Anyone willing to back ECars?
I'll even offer odds

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Don't assume eCars knew what they were doing when they implemented their system

It's also probably bad to assume they know what they're doing now

They definitely want people to go the subscription route as that's a steady revenue stream for them. But they're going to have to sweeten the deal somewhat to tempt me back

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

Yes, I had deducted the first 225km from the journey, as I would be leaving fully charged. Hence I just used the 500km I'd need until home again the following day.

Limerick to Belfast

I have done that return journey since without needing any ECars fast charging or slow, AC overnight charging. Instead, I used Ionity Kill, Castlebellingham & a quick free top up at Applegreen, Birdhill.
It was all free actually.

It's just so, so frustrating paying so much tax buying an EV, having more tax gifted to ECars & now paying for the charging, for such poor delivery of necessary infrastructure.

If it wasn't for the availability of eNiros, Konas, Model 3s, UK Model Ss, the ID.3 & more longer range EVs these days, we'd be royally screwed with what has been delivered, over the last 2 or 3 years, by ECars.

[/end rant]

MJohnston

Kramer wrote: »

I do :pac:.

I'll wager when we're 40 months into this 36 month plan, nothing much will have changed. It might be a good bet actually, like ELM's Chademo vs CCS bet.
Anyone willing to back ECars?
I'll even offer odds .

In fairness, this year will have been a disaster for most in terms of any kind of engineering work. Even if ESB engineers were available to work, supply chains were decimated for a few months, and that's going to have an unavoidable effect.

I'm not saying that ESB would have done any better without the pandemic, because we simply don't know, but adding a few months to their original timeline is justified.

zg3409

All ESB chargers down due to network issues. Drivers stranded needing to granny charge, assuming they have a granny cable...

AndyBoBandy

zg3409 wrote: »

All ESB chargers down due to network issues. Drivers stranded needing to granny charge, assuming they have a granny cable...

If only they did the decent thing and Free Vended is drivers wouldn’t be stuck......

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If only they did the decent thing and Free Vended is drivers wouldn’t be stuck......

Yeah, even ecotricity managed to give better customer service in the event of connectivity issues.

kanuseeme

Thats more than a step backwards for EV adoption.

the_amazing_raisin

zg3409 wrote: »

All ESB chargers down due to network issues. Drivers stranded needing to granny charge, assuming they have a granny cable...

I suggest everyone here starts complaining to the CRU and local TDs about the lack of standards when it comes to public charging.

Who knows, maybe they'll do something about it?

slave1

zg3409 wrote: »

All ESB chargers down due to network issues. Drivers stranded needing to granny charge, assuming they have a granny cable...

This has happened before, and likely will happen again...

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Tesco Superstore,Thomas St, Beckscourt, Bailieborough came online today.

Usual craic. 22kW AC. I'll put it on plugshare in the morning unless zg does.

Seems wrongly placed on the app.
https://myaccount.esbecars.com/findCharger?53.9166720,-6.9685400,18z,TEV028,1852st

Tesco is closer to the roundabout. Reported it on esb app.

McGiver

cruisey1987 wrote:

I suggest everyone here starts complaining to the CRU and local TDs about the lack of standards when it comes to public charging.

Yes. And what is the IEVOA doing? With respect, we need a pressure group that is very critical. With no critique there's no progress.

KCross

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I suggest everyone here starts complaining to the CRU and local TDs about the lack of standards when it comes to public charging.

Who knows, maybe they'll do something about it?

I think they washed their hands of all EV charging networks so I think they would politely tell you to get lost.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I think they washed their hands of all EV charging networks so I think they would politely tell you to get lost.

They did indeed

the_amazing_raisin

KCross wrote: »

I think they washed their hands of all EV charging networks so I think they would politely tell you to get lost.

Since they were blocking the ESB from installing more chargers for years, I'm not sure they can claim that charging networks are outside their area of responsibility.

I'm sure they'll say that it's not their problem, but it's not something that would stand up to scrutiny

the_amazing_raisin

McGiver wrote: »

Yes. And what is the IEVOA doing? With respect, we need a pressure group that is very critical. With no critique there's no progress.

Maybe I'll join them just to complain

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Since they were blocking the ESB from installing more chargers for years, I'm not sure they can claim that charging networks are outside their area of responsibility.

I'm sure they'll say that it's not their problem, but it's not something that would stand up to scrutiny

This is exactly what they claimed, that they were a regulator of utilities and EV refueling is not a utility

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Maybe I'll join them just to complain

Join them all you want, in my experience its a club for old men to complain to each other but take no action.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

Join them all you want, in my experience its a club for old men to complain to each other but take no action.

Annual AGM

ELM327

Yes pretty much, alongside people who go to troll.
I was on the committee a few years ago and left as there were too many chiefs and not enough direct representation. I was wasting my time. Looks like the new additions to the committee are doing a better job than their predecessors collective efforts.

It was clear from the meetings with ecars, CER/CRU etc that all the association was interested in doing was acquiescing to the story-line at tha time.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

I was wasting my time.

You should leave all that behind - I hear BMW V12s make a lovely sound..........:).
It would likely cause bronchitis for a few penguins though, but if you're on reduced mileage (WFH), would be acceptable.

So was this confirmed, the whole ECars network went offline?
If that gets out, that the national network can go out completely, stranding commuters etc., it'll fuel the anti EV lobby & further set back mass adoption.

Backwards we're going, backwards :rolleyes:.