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Solar PV Hints, Tips & Troubleshooting

DrPhilG

Well I've reached the point of driving everyone nuts on the PV quotes thread, and since I now have my system installed and running my endless questions no longer belong there.

So I figured I'd ask here, and also provide a home for others in the same boat, with general questions and advice on managing post-install.

My first question (of many) is how do people best manage their production in order to reduce grid export? Despite being overcast and miserable a fair bit of the day, I've produced 24kWh so far today, but ended up exporting 11.

Not too bad when we're home, as the wife did a few loads of washing and drying, put on the dishwasher etc.

But we're both at work tomorrow so other than a timed or remotely activated washer/dryer run we would end up exporting a lot more.

Extra battery capacity or a water diverter would help, but they don't tend to justify their costs in the long term.

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garo

daughy wrote: »

I kinda knew you where getting at that when i watched the video, miscommunication, I'm looking to install an energy meter to the main board. I built the pc myself, a gaming pc, but hanvnt used it in 6 months. Must be getting old.

Ah sorry! What do you want the energy meter to do? Measure usage? Import? Solar production? A CT clamp set up like in the first video should do that.

I feel your pain about the gaming PC. I just stopped having the time to play once kids came along.

daughy

garo wrote: »

Ah sorry! What do you want the energy meter to do? Measure usage? Import? Solar production? A CT clamp set up like in the first video should do that.

I feel your pain about the gaming PC. I just stopped having the time to play once kids came along.

The CT clamp comes with the meter, it's a hard wired meter, measures the grid import and export, it doesn't measure the solar production I don't think as the Solis app shows that from the WiFi data logger, it can export to the grid at the max capacity of the inverter or you can send nothing back to the grid, which is good as I don't want the grid getting anything for free.. I have noticed alot of ppl saying they have exported to the grid but this meter and the hybrid can stop that. I'll miss the pc but I'll just use Samsung dex which is more than adequate at the moment.

daughy

Here is the Solis video cancelling any export to grid
https://youtu.be/mbtwSzrlArI

graememk

daughy wrote: »

T which is good as I don't want the grid getting anything for free.. I have noticed alot of ppl saying they have exported to the grid but this meter and the hybrid can stop that.

Dont worry about exporting to the grid, The likes of the zappi and eddi work off the principle of export, it can then see the "excess" then use it, you can see it reacting to a hob clicking on and off.

(i have a buffer of 400w set on the immersion as the hob is often left on with the teapot half off it)

I have a solar iboost and am monitoring it using a ct on the immersion feed

Graph, Yellow Solar, orange immersion, blue is usage (not counting immersion ofc)

any excess going back to the grid, It doesn't reduce the lifespan of the inverter and doesn't cost you anything either.

The normal use of the export limit is that it doesnt breach regulations, (ie the esbs 6kwh export limit)

daughy

graememk wrote: »

Dont worry about exporting to the grid, The likes of the zappi and eddi work off the principle of export, it can then see the "excess" then use it, you can see it reacting to a hob clicking on and off.

(i have a buffer of 400w set on the immersion as the hob is often left on with the teapot half off it)

I have a solar iboost and am monitoring it using a ct on the immersion feed

Graph, Yellow Solar, orange immersion, blue is usage (not counting immersion ofc)

any excess going back to the grid, It doesn't reduce the lifespan of the inverter and doesn't cost you anything either.

The normal use of the export limit is that it doesnt breach regulations, (ie the esbs 6kwh export limit)

I'm just not seeing how to export needs to be involved. Your house will use whats needed to run it and import when needed, stopping the export means the energy company doesn't get something for free, I have seen some of DrPhilG export data for one month, 200kw exported.. As he has a large system This is unacceptable in my opinion and the energy companies are smoking big ciggares sitting back and watching the money roll back in offering if so a measle 5 cent a kW fit. I'm seriously thinking these grant agencies or installers are giving people inverters without this function, are they in league with the energy companies? Is this why a fit might never be introduced? It's ultimately up to the consumer to source these type of inverters.

Further testing will clarify this for me if I install an Eddie, or an iboost, I'm interested to know you must have 3 CT clamps on your main board for this setup? 1 connected to live off your solar, 1 connected to live of your immersion, and 1 connected the the live grid?
The iboost uses a battery operated connection for the CT clamp to send the data, while the Eddie uses a harvi with 3 CT connections that energises the harvi without the need for batteries or hard wire, then sends the data to the hub.
What system are you using to monitor your entire setup as you have a graph for the solar, immersion and grid?

daughy

I would not want a smart metre also, just in the UK they said because of the high demand for the amount of car charging at night they will automatically stop your smart meter to reduce the load on the grid.
I was reading that your not legally obligated to get a smart meter if they come calling around to your door.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-8706033/Smart-meters-used-switch-electricity-without-warning-compensation.html

graememk

daughy wrote: »

I'm just not seeing how to export needs to be involved. Your house will use whats needed to run it and import when needed, stopping the export makes no difference, I'm seriously thinking these grant agencies or installers are giving people inverters without this function, are they in league with the energy companies? Is this why a fit might never be introduced? It's ultimately up to the consumer to source these type of inverters.

Its EU Regulation that is forcing the introduction of a FIT, So thats why we say its coming. Most inverters have that function to limit the export. but generally its not worth the hassle of setting it up, unless your going to go over the 6kw limit ESB Networks have set.

daughy wrote: »

Further testing will clarify this for me if I install an Eddie, or an iboost, I'm interested to know you must have 3 CT clamps on your main board for this setup? 1 connected to live off your solar, 1 connected to live of your immersion, and 1 connected the the live grid?
The iboost uses a battery operated connection for the CT clamp to send the data, while the Eddie uses a harvi with 3 CT connections that energises the harvi without the need for batteries or hard wire, then sends the data to the hub.
What system are you using to monitor your entire setup as you have a graph for the solar, immersion and grid?

So My monitoring setup is from openenergy monitor. I am running a EmonTX+wifi connected to an emonhub,

Used the tx as I needed 3 ct inputs, Grid +-, Solar, Immersion. the graphs are an "app" in the emonCMS system. It also monitors the grid voltage to give a true power reading via a 9v AC AC transformer.

Basic Solar monitoring can be done using the EmonPi and that 2 cts. That current setup is my fathers house next door. Im in the planning stage of the solar thats going to be connected to my house.

It will also intergrate with my openevse chargepoint and do the same thing as a zappi

The way the iboost, eddi, Zappi, openevse* work is that it can monitor the excess leaving the house to decide what to do.

So an iboost for example reads the export from the house and then can adjust the immersion accordingly. It uses a wireless CT either in the meter box or in the consumer unit.

by default it has a 100w "buffer" for measurement errors/ battery charging etc

So, once you start exporting, say 500W it will ramp up the immersion until the export is back to under 100w. until it reaches the limit of the immersion.

an eddi can then also communicate with the zappi, and if an EV is plugged in. (minimum charge rate of 6a, 1.4kw) can tell the zappi that its using 1.4 kw, and that is enough to start the charge, and the zappi then takes over.

Now, say if your hot water tank was hot, and the immersion cannot run, even if you limited your export to 0, or 200w, the zappi will never see that excess power and never turn on.

*the openevse needs a mqtt feed to run its solar divert, whatever way its generated, can be easily done in the Emon system (all locally run, feeds can be uploaded to their online cms system if you want, completely optional)

daughy wrote: »

I would not want a smart metre also, just in the UK they said because of the high demand for the amount of car charging at night they will automatically stop your smart meter to reduce the load on the grid.
I was reading that your not legally obligated to get a smart meter if they come calling around to your door.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-8706033/Smart-meters-used-switch-electricity-without-warning-compensation.html

Uk is differrent from Ireland, but yes you can refuse the smart meter install, and to have a remote cutoff switch in a meter would mean a fairly beefy contactor (i suppose they are in Prepay meters) to disconnect the supply to the house. That article even says that Ofgem is completely opposed to it. Article also says that they would need a new smart meter (not the ones installing now) to enable this behaviour

Also the meters in the UK are owned by the power companies not the DNO.

Only benefit to the consumer of a smart meter is to allow a FIT that i can see.

unkel

graememk wrote: »

Only benefit to the consumer of a smart meter is to allow a FIT that i can see.

It will also allow for a system of multiple rates. The consumer can benefit by using more electricity when it is (really) cheap and less electricity when it is (really) expensive

In other markets, more advanced than Ireland, we have already seen utility companies giving electricity away for free or almost free (Octopus in UK) at times or on the other side of the coin, electricity has hit USD10 / kWh at one point in Texas at the height of a heat wave. That is over 100 times their normal rate

People should pay the real cost of electricity. People who use 100% renewable electricity when it is plentiful should not have to subsidise plonkers using electricity when it is at its most expensive and generated by burning fossil fuels

graememk

unkel wrote: »

It will also allow for a system of multiple rates. The consumer can benefit by using more electricity when it is (really) cheap and less electricity when it is (really) expensive

Ooof forgot about that one, yep I think they have 3 rates now on the table for Ireland. Imagine being paid to charge your car.

daughy

Useful information about the setup for monitoring the system.
I will look into this graememk.
I am just dissaointed nted that so many people invested in large systems that are helping rather than hindering and to be told they're is a possibility that we might just turn off your lecky..
To go off grid entirely is my plan.
When lithium at least gets to consumer level prices as 1k or more for 2.4kwh of a battery is scandalous. I could go with a 48 volt agm 200 amp setup or more and still save a fortune on what lithium is charging.
Anyways. Enjoy the weather ðŸ˜‚

graememk

daughy wrote: »

Useful information about the setup for monitoring the system.
I will look into this graememk.

The hardware isn't that cheap, but it's quite powerful. Ran by a small business in Wales. Happy to give them my business.

unkel

graememk wrote: »

Ooof forgot about that one, yep I think they have 3 rates now on the table for Ireland. Imagine being paid to charge your car.

Yeah. And then powering your house from your car. For free.

daughy

garo wrote: »

What size tank would that be? And I assume the price includes the tank as well? I had a pre insulated copper tank installed for 440 so 700 for a steel tank is not bad. If you have many women in the house make sure you get a large tank. At least 200l and preferably 300l if you have space. For future proofing think about a design that has an immersion going all the way to the bottom. When you eventually get a diverter you would want it to heat the whole tank and not just the top.

Hi Garo, so i talked to the plumber today, for a stainless steel tank that's roughly the same size as my old copper tank That I already have it would cost 700 for a full install, but I asked him would the water stay hot for longer and he says yes, a few hours.. i said what? My tank already can heat the water at lets say 4am till 5 am and if nobody showers it will only drop approx 4 degrees until about 10am or 11 am.. so no benefit to me to get a new tank.. stainless steel is really for less corrosion and my tank is fine at the moment.

daughy

So guys, I'm gonna go with the eddie, i know its crazy but I am nuts ha. Can anyone recommend where to purchase one? I see Irish websites are a bit ovp... would it be better to get it from England myenergi store?

garo

The stainless steel is not the important bit. Stainless steel is only important if you have an unvented high pressure system. The pre-insulated part is more important. You said your copper tank has a lagging jacket. What you want is something that looks like this:

https://www.plumbingproducts.ie/insulated-twin-coil-rapid-ireland/2185-copper-cylinder-insulated-30x18-twin-coil-rapid.html

as opposed to:

https://greendealeco.wordpress.com/tag/hot-water-cylinder/

daughy

garo wrote: »

The stainless steel is not the important bit. Stainless steel is only important if you have an unvented high pressure system. The pre-insulated part is more important. You said your copper tank has a lagging jacket. What you want is something that looks like this:

https://www.plumbingproducts.ie/insulated-twin-coil-rapid-ireland/2185-copper-cylinder-insulated-30x18-twin-coil-rapid.html

as opposed to:

https://greendealeco.wordpress.com/tag/hot-water-cylinder/

I definitely agree with you garo, just bought the eddie a few min ago, 738 euro, 2 ct clamps, the eddie, harvi and hub, an Irish company.
I'll grab another lagging jacket and insulate the outgoing copper pipes with lagging insulation.
Thanks for your help garo

unkel

A bargain. Do a DIY install on it and it will have paid for itself by 2038 or so. Oh wait, it will have died several years before that.

daughy

unkel wrote: »

A bargain. Do a DIY install on it and it will have paid for itself by 2038 or so. Oh wait, it will have died several years before that.

Very good unkel ðŸ˜„

[Deleted User]

€800 buy will buy a few megatons of hot water. People are spending in excess of what the problem ever cost on the solutions.

[Deleted User]

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

€800 buy will buy a few megatons of hot water. People are spending in excess of what the problem ever cost on the solutions.

I decided to correct myself before anyone else does. €800 will heat 175 tons 25°C

much like €12k solar install paybacks are racing pensions

Dubstar07

Hi all, just looking to start on the solar pv journey. Some questions:

1. Is it necessary to figure out the baseline consumption?
2. If so, what is a good monitor to track this which could be uploaded to an excel file?
3. Or is it a case of utilising maximum roof area?

TIA

[Deleted User]

Dubstar07 wrote: »

1. Is it necessary to figure out the baseline consumption?

Yes. We cannot understand what we cannot measure.

Dubstar07 wrote: »

3. Or is it a case of utilising maximum roof area?

Solar is cheaper than dirty grid power if you can find an honest installer and design to your requirements without throwing a silly battery in the middle. :rolleyes:

daughy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

€800 buy will buy a few megatons of hot water. People are spending in excess of what the problem ever cost on the solutions.

It would be ideal if we had access to geothermal with a heat pump in each house, I can't exactly go into my back garden and drill down 175 metres to access this potentially never ending heat exchanger, also free lecky from the earth.
Some of our houses have been built in the 50's, where not in the Energy A grade new houses so where always at an energy loss without pumping thousands into external insulation or attic insulation. Composite doors, heat pumps, combi boilers, triple glazing windows, electric cars, people just don't have the money to pump into these type of things, they offer pensioners the external insulation for free, youl be nearly 70 by the time you get that done or pay close to 16k if your a young couple starting out on an overpriced housing market. Where all doing our bit, so ease up on the comments.
If someone wants to buy batteries and has the cash, so be it.. If someone is getting duped il help then, I won't criticise them. And the old saying goes, you get what you paid for. If you and unkel can demonstrate the failure rate of an Eddie then by all means post it here.

slave1

I don’t know why such negativity around batteries, I’m going for 6kW system and the cost difference between having a battery and not having one is €40 after taking the extra €1,200 in grants.
I’m going for the battery, paltry 2.4....

daughy

slave1 wrote: »

I don’t know why such negativity around batteries, I’m going for 6kW system and the cost difference between having a battery and not having one is €40 after taking the extra €1,200 in grants.
I’m going for the battery, paltry 2.4....

I built my father an on grid off grid setup, he has never been happier, 24 volt, 100 amp hour battery backup getting charged with 500 watts of solar, a 1.1kw grid connected also, he is 63 lives on his own, I can't have him without his fridge in a grid down situation.
If batteries give you peace of mind then go for it, as the grid doesn't give me much confidence, and another thing, your grid connected solar is useless without the grid so that's a big loss.

garo

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I decided to correct myself before anyone else does. €800 will heat 175 tons 25°C

Good thing you did because megatonnes was several orders of magnitude out. And what is 175 tonnes? 3 years of hot water in a busy house? Not saying that eddi is a wise investment but it is merely a slightly poor one rather than a catastrophically bad one.

sphinxicus

daughy wrote: »

and another thing, your grid connected solar is useless without the grid so that's a big loss.

I susppect that this comes as a big surprise to many who have solar installed and wonder why, when the power goes out on a sunny day that their freezer is defrosting. I have to admit before i started researching solar i had just assumed that when the grid was down the solar would continue to work... I bet 99% of these installers who have popped up over the last few years fail to mention it too.

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

I don’t know why such negativity around batteries, I’m going for 6kW system and the cost difference between having a battery and not having one is €40 after taking the extra €1,200 in grants.
I’m going for the battery, paltry 2.4....

You either have a very high “no battery” quote or something else is wrong in your figures.

The extra grant doesn’t cover the extra costs involved so something is up if you say there is only €40 in the difference.

idc

daughy wrote: »

your grid connected solar is useless without the grid so that's a big loss.

That depends on your setup, when I first heard about the fact your solar is useless when the grid is down could never understand why there was no technology to solve this!

So when I was talking to installers I asked what were the options in power outage. Most offer 2-3 plugs or 2-3 circuits in there own fuse board which can be powered from the battery - not sure if those systems allow PV panels to provide power to battery or inverter as well though.

The company i went with provided a manual switch that isolates me from grid, inverter switches to UPS mode allowing PV+battery to still be used in the house, if there is excess PV it will charge the battery while in this mode.

sphinxicus

idc wrote: »

The company i went with provided a manual switch that isolates me from grid, inverter switches to UPS mode allowing PV+battery to still be used in the house, if there is excess PV it will charge the battery while in this mode.

Thats the job. So when you're in UPS mode, I'm assuming that means that the subset of sockets/circuits are the only ones that receive power? Or is it whole house? And if its whole house, what happens if demand outstrips what solar generation + battery output can provide? Sorry for all the questions.