FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Tbh even if the FE1s aren't necessarily comparable to level 8 university exams, at the end of the day these are totally unprecedented times, every other body has managed to adapt in terms of examinations and as a previous poster pointed out they have adapted in a way that allows the advantage to fall to the student. We are all having a tough time during the pandemic whether sitting these exams or not, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

My biggest frustration is the fact that these exams actually mean nothing in terms of our career, it's not like they give us any sort of qualification. The majority of us already have a law degree and we will all still have to undergo a few years of training before qualifying as a solicitor.

Back in March I'm sure we all thought sure they can't just not hold the leaving cert this year, that's a crazy suggestion. But the Dept of Education managed to come up with a system to match these unprecedented times and they did so dealing with over 60,000 students. How are the law society not willing to grant exemptions based on undergraduate exams when there are only 2000 of us, and it's clearly a once off situation. The Leaving Cert directly effects what students get to study in college and what career path they pursue, so why can the LS not do something similar for the FE1s when the only 'qualification' they give you is to allow you to enter a training contract where you will still be studying and examined over the next few years.

I know that’s what really annoys me also about the FE-1s they don’t get you anywhere other than you can now enter blackhall and train/study for a further two years

In accounting if you’ve passed certain subjects you completely skip the CAP1 exams and go straight to CAP2
If your undergrad is comparable to cap 1 I don’t see how undergrad is not comparable to fE-1s

If they can’t organize fair online sittings they will have to think of something we can’t be sitting and waiting to be able to further our careers

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Tbh even if the FE1s aren't necessarily comparable to level 8 university exams, at the end of the day these are totally unprecedented times, every other body has managed to adapt in terms of examinations and as a previous poster pointed out they have adapted in a way that allows the advantage to fall to the student. We are all having a tough time during the pandemic whether sitting these exams or not, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

My biggest frustration is the fact that these exams actually mean nothing in terms of our career, it's not like they give us any sort of qualification. The majority of us already have a law degree and we will all still have to undergo a few years of training before qualifying as a solicitor.

Back in March I'm sure we all thought sure they can't just not hold the leaving cert this year, that's a crazy suggestion. But the Dept of Education managed to come up with a system to match these unprecedented times and they did so dealing with over 60,000 students. How are the law society not willing to grant exemptions based on undergraduate exams when there are only 2000 of us, and it's clearly a once off situation. The Leaving Cert directly effects what students get to study in college and what career path they pursue, so why can the LS not do something similar for the FE1s when the only 'qualification' they give you is to allow you to enter a training contract where you will still be studying and examined over the next few years.

Well having done a level 8 LLB I can say they are definitely comparable. If they weren’t then the exemptions would never have existed in the first place. The subject matter is the same.

rebuke

shaunadennyham wrote: »

Well having done a level 8 LLB I can say they are definitely comparable. If they weren’t then the exemptions would never have existed in the first place. The subject matter is the same.

Exactly, so too is the structure. The majority of us will have also previously done an end of semester exam under one of the FE1 examiners as well!

JohnsKite

Exemptions mightn't be as easy to provide as people think. First there's the many people who didn't do a law course. Second the grades from college probably vary wildly based on the year you took the exams, and could affect contract chances; for example, I did constitution in second year, was still figuring out how the exams worked, and only got 40%, that can't compared to the firsts I got in third when I knew how to play the game.

JohnsKite

It's important to recognise that there is literally no purpose of the Fe-1 exam.

This is admittedly a difficult pill to swallow. It doesn't make you a better practitioner, it's not some type of "quality control" (unless the Law Society want to argue that the thousands of solicitors that received exemptions before the ruling are totally incompetent), the UK doesn't have this requirement either.

The only reason the Fe-1s even exist is so that the Law Society can squeeze every single cent out of you as much as possible and create a bottleneck into the profession. Its intentional and calculated.

JohnsKite wrote: »

Exemptions mightn't be as easy to provide as people think. First there's the many people who didn't do a law course. Second the grades from college probably vary wildly based on the year you took the exams, and could affect contract chances; for example, I did constitution in second year, was still figuring out how the exams worked, and only got 40%, that can't compared to the firsts I got in third when I knew how to play the game.

Well I personally think they should do online open book exams

but the kings inns were closed book online so I assume we’ll be the same

JohnsKite wrote: »

Exemptions mightn't be as easy to provide as people think. First there's the many people who didn't do a law course. Second the grades from college probably vary wildly based on the year you took the exams, and could affect contract chances; for example, I did constitution in second year, was still figuring out how the exams worked, and only got 40%, that can't compared to the firsts I got in third when I knew how to play the game.

The arguments you've put forward are weak.

First, If you didn't do a law course or the particular law module in question you shouldn't get an exemption. There's nothing unfair about that.

Second, it can be predicated on achieving at least a 2.2 in that particular subject from a qualifying law programme as set out of by the Law Society. I'm not even sure what you mean by "knowing how to play the game". If you haven't managed a bare minimum of 50% in a subject in college then you don't get that exemption.

IgoPAP wrote: »

The arguments you've put forward are weak.

First, If you didn't do a law course or the particular law module in question you shouldn't get an exemption. There's nothing unfair about that.

Second, it can be predicated on achieving at least a 2.2 in that particular subject from a qualifying law programme as set out of by the Law Society. I'm not even sure what you mean by "knowing how to play the game". If you haven't managed a bare minimum of 50% in a subject in college then you don't get that exemption.

Well tbf a 40% is a pass in college

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

Well tbf a 40% is a pass in college

I was going to say 2.1!

I think if the Law Society eventually do decide to allow exemptions again it would be based on that. I've heard firms like A&l Goodbody were trying to lobby the LS into removing the Fe-1's because some of their potential trainees decided to go train in London because they didn't want to spend a year and a half on the Fe-1's.

IgoPAP wrote: »

I was going to say 2.1!

I think if the Law Society eventually do decide to allow exemptions again it would be based on that. I've heard firms like A&l Goodbody were trying to lobby the LS into removing the Fe-1's because some of their potential trainees decided to go train in London because they didn't want to spend a year and a half on the Fe-1's.

I was thinking of doing it myself although the rules have now changed in England

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

I was thinking of doing it myself although the rules have now changed in England

What do you mean?

IgoPAP wrote: »

What do you mean?

I was told they’re changing their rules in relation to qualified law degrees to go straight into he LPC

If you don’t qualify you have to do the GDL

LawExams 2020

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

I was told they’re changing their rules in relation to qualified law degrees to go straight into he LPC

If you don’t qualify you have to do the GDL

The SQE doesn't come into effect until Sept 2021 (if at all, lot of opposition to it). Was looking into it myself. At the rate the Law Soc is going, we might be faster qualifying over there!

LawExams 2020 wrote: »

The SQE doesn't come into effect until Sept 2021 (if at all, lot of opposition to it). Was looking into it myself. At the rate the Law Soc is going, we might be faster qualifying over there!

Ah haha if I had looked into more I would have studied English public law - is stil have to do the gdl in that exam

Lallers96

I can't speak from an objective standpoint but I will try and chime in about the talk of exemptions.

I was a poor student in my first few years in college and while I did pass Tort, Constitutional, Contract, Company, and EU - I only achieved the 50+ mark in 1 of those if I recall correctly, as I was dealing with a lot in my first two years in college between the loss of 3 of my cousins and financial difficulties at the time. Sure these are excuses but I simply could not apply myself at the tender age of 18 with all of that on my plate, as I can now at almost 24. I'm practically a different person.

So to reject me for exemptions for passing a subject as far back as 2015 at college lvl 8, but not get the 50% grade that I did not know of back then required for the FE-1s, seems harsh. Again, I know im speaking from a biased position but I just feel that is very harsh.

Also the idea of exemptions will just cause chaos because where do you draw the line? As someone pointed out, getting 50% in a lvl 6 or 7 course in an IT is drastically easier than a lvl 8 in a university. I'm not trying to come across as stuck up but someone doing Arts in NUIG sat a much easier exam than I did for Tort, Constitutional, and Contract law.

All of this talk just makes it seem utterly pointless getting a 4 year law degree only to find out it takes another year or two to pass exams you've already passed.

If I had the choice I think open book online exams is the way to go.

LawExams 2020

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

Ah haha if I had looked into more I would have studied English public law - is stil have to do the gdl in that exam

Obstacles every which way!

With any luck the Law Soc will come through and we can still pull things off for 2020. One lives in hope!

LawStudent999

With all this talk of exemptions, first, I personally see no scenario in which exemptions will come into play as I can’t imagine this is a precedent the LS will want to set to begin with.

Secondly, if in any reality exemptions are given, I can imagine that they will be done so across the board for each and every person registered to sit the exams. While I have seen speculation that your previous merits would dictate your entitlement to an exemption, the fact of the matter is that with respect to this set of exams, all registered must be given the benefit of the doubt that they have all put in the work required for the sittings.

Even if for example another candidate sat these exams not having passed any previous law modules relating to the FE1’s, there really is nothing to go by that they haven’t put in an equal amount of work for this exam as another candidate.

For that reason I would say it’s wasted breath wondering what threshold one would have to meet to be granted a supposed exemption.

maggie95

Did anyone else see the Law Society's Facebook post earlier:
"How we communicate with each other matters"

I'm in stitches.

92QXyh3

ruby1998

maggie95 wrote: »

Did anyone else see the Law Society's Facebook post earlier:
"How we communicate with each other matters"

I'm in stitches.

Hahahaha how are they so out of touch

ScatmanWhack

Has anybody who has a training contract been in touch with their firm in relation to this mess? I'm half thinking of contacting HR to see if they'd try put some pressure on LS.

milktray22 wrote: »

It would be totally unfair to allow any candidate an exemption.
I have passed 7 fe1 exams and went through hell to pass them (as many more before me have) and now people here want to be granted exemptions.
We are in the middle of a health crisis. The Law Society are doing the best they can. What proof have any of you got that they are deliberately making things difficult for you. I mean organising petitions and writing letters to TDs - ridiculous. These kind of actions just make you look spoilt and want to get everything handed to you without any work or effort. We all have to pass these exams, so just get on with it.
I really hope that the Law Society read these posts and decide not to grant any exemptions.

You went through hell without a GLOBAL PANDEMIC raging in the background. Nobody is taking your exams away from you. What difference does it make to you how other people get into blackhall? We’re going through the same hell plus a pandemic. How dare you say that people are acting spoilt and asking for handouts without work or effort? Who are you to say that? You have no idea how much work everyone has put in - people have been studying for months, have taken leave from work in many cases and are simply at breaking point now. To say that people are asking for handouts is quite frankly insulting. Take your contempt elsewhere.

HOW CAN WE GET ON WITH PASSING EXAMS WHEN WE DON’T KNOW WHEN THEY'LL BE ON? Might want to reconsider your career path given your appalling logic here.

How can you say the law society are doing the best they can? They’ve had 7 months to come up with a workable solution. They’ve delayed the exams, given totally conflicting information to candidates and vague updates that aren’t really updates. They have taken hundreds of thousands of euro in fees from students, many of whom are waiting on refunds from March and August sittings. Please do elaborate here I would simply LOVE to hear it. Nobody has said they’re making things deliberately difficult for us, but it’s not unreasonable to expect the body who sets the exams to have a coherent plan in place for the examinations to take place.

Hope you pass your last fe1 and get a TC and enjoy Blackhall but I really hope I don’t ever run across you in a personal or professional capacity.

scarson216

...do you mean proof of making life difficult for us as in the fact they’ve had since March, fully aware Covid wasn’t going anywhere and in fact would most likely be worse in winter months and are only now 3 weeks out from exams “looking into” an online provider which isn’t even guaranteed?

milktray22 wrote: »

It would be totally unfair to allow any candidate an exemption.
I have passed 7 fe1 exams and went through hell to pass them (as many more before me have) and now people here want to be granted exemptions.
We are in the middle of a health crisis. The Law Society are doing the best they can. What proof have any of you got that they are deliberately making things difficult for you. I mean organising petitions and writing letters to TDs - ridiculous. These kind of actions just make you look spoilt and want to get everything handed to you without any work or effort. We all have to pass these exams, so just get on with it.
I really hope that the Law Society read these posts and decide not to grant any exemptions.

LawStudent999

milktray22 wrote: »

It would be totally unfair to allow any candidate an exemption.
I have passed 7 fe1 exams and went through hell to pass them (as many more before me have) and now people here want to be granted exemptions.
We are in the middle of a health crisis. The Law Society are doing the best they can. What proof have any of you got that they are deliberately making things difficult for you. I mean organising petitions and writing letters to TDs - ridiculous. These kind of actions just make you look spoilt and want to get everything handed to you without any work or effort. We all have to pass these exams, so just get on with it.
I really hope that the Law Society read these posts and decide not to grant any exemptions.

Today’s hot take

Hazel774

milktray22 wrote: »

It would be totally unfair to allow any candidate an exemption.
I have passed 7 fe1 exams and went through hell to pass them (as many more before me have) and now people here want to be granted exemptions.
We are in the middle of a health crisis. The Law Society are doing the best they can. What proof have any of you got that they are deliberately making things difficult for you. I mean organising petitions and writing letters to TDs - ridiculous. These kind of actions just make you look spoilt and want to get everything handed to you without any work or effort. We all have to pass these exams, so just get on with it.
I really hope that the Law Society read these posts and decide not to grant any exemptions.

Chill...

I too have passed 7 exams and I agree it was hell to do so, but just because I went through hell to pass them doesn't mean that I wish that on everyone else, I can't imagine being so petty.
No one is looking for anything to be handed to them without any work or effort, we were all prepared and willing to sit the October exams when the timetable was released and have only registered and paid to sit the subjects that we have done months of study for and put a huge amount of effort into.

The reality is that people are going to end up losing their training contracts due to these delays. We have deadlines in our contracts and may lose them over the Law Society not organising a sitting for us before then, and these delays will have a knock-on effect for people planning on sitting in March 2021 too, as they would have planned on starting their study after the October sitting.

The Law Society are making things more difficult than needs to be by failing to make any plans over the course of seven months, when virtually every other institution has managed to do so, and worse than that by ignoring all of our queries. I have sent approximately 20 emails to the LS since March, many of which were simple queries not relating to the pandemic and I have received one response, that is unacceptable from a professional body. I have had them hang up the phone on me multiple times when I call and say I have a query about the FE1s. They also delayed 5 months before reorganizing the exams they postponed in March (which possibly could have been done online had they not opened it up to everyone), and took no account of the fact that this had a huge impact on candidate's study for the October sitting when setting their original October timetable.

So please get off your high horse and have a bit of compassion, if you've sat 7 exams you know exactly the level of stress they cause at the best of times, never mind during a global pandemic when people are losing loved ones and genuniely struggling with their mental health.

JayFE1

milktray22 wrote: »

It would be totally unfair to allow any candidate an exemption.
I have passed 7 fe1 exams and went through hell to pass them (as many more before me have) and now people here want to be granted exemptions.
We are in the middle of a health crisis. The Law Society are doing the best they can. What proof have any of you got that they are deliberately making things difficult for you. I mean organising petitions and writing letters to TDs - ridiculous. These kind of actions just make you look spoilt and want to get everything handed to you without any work or effort. We all have to pass these exams, so just get on with it.
I really hope that the Law Society read these posts and decide not to grant any exemptions.

So because it was difficult for you, there can never be an exemption made? Nah. Did you sit those 7 FE1s in a global pandemic with the added stress and uncertainty that brings? Sorry pal if I missed that one. If it’s being spoilt to ask for some mitigation in the current circumstances then consider me an absolute brat!

milktray22

Every day people here moan and complain about the law society when there are people out there with real problems. The exams will take place eventually. Just get on with it. No one should be allowed an exemption or a pass without sitting an exam (whenever that may be). Why give exemptions when others have struggled to pass. Grow up

Lallers96

milktray22 wrote: »

Every day people here moan and complain about the law society when there are people out there with real problems. The exams will take place eventually. Just get on with it. No one should be allowed an exemption or a pass without sitting an exam (whenever that may be). Why give exemptions when others have struggled to pass. Grow up

Read the room.

So you're saying our problems aren't real problems?? Oh do you know what you're not even worth conversing with.