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FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

Tom Young

This is the new FE1 Exam Thread

This is a link to the old one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055143169

This is a link to the next one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056907164

Sorry, I'm aware we are in the throws of FE1 season, but due to a server issue, a new thread was required. Old chats and posts below - Thanks!

Mod warning in post #1205: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88514663&postcount=1205

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Moderator: The above warnings mean it is not ok to buy, sell or swap (trade) any exam materials in this thread. Exam grids are the only exception. You may request and exchange exam grids but at no point will money be allowed to change hands for them.

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Lawgrad101

Has anyone ever received a script back and it’s been a different result to the one you were given on your results page?

maggie95

FE12020Law wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for contacting our local TDs ? The pandemic has been with us for over 6 months and it's absolutely scandalous there was no plan B ready to go for November sittings. I think contacting local TDs and political parties might get this issue brought up in the Dáil?

lawgirl23 wrote: »

I’ve just this minute finished sending letters by email to all my local TDs!

Just did the same - no harm. At minimum will draw attention to the situation.

Fe1student1234

Lawgrad101 wrote: »

Has anyone ever received a script back and it’s been a different result to the one you were given on your results page?

No

Sounds like the results page was wrong tbh

Lawlaw12

Lawgrad101 wrote: »

Has anyone ever received a script back and it’s been a different result to the one you were given on your results page?

I received one where there are 2 grades on my script, one from the internal examiner and one from the external examiner (I believe the external examiner checks a random selection of the scripts).

But if the result on your results page was lower than that on your script then I'd say you should email them

CMUL

Its a good few years since my degree just wondering what did the universities do for the last semester exams due to COVID in UL, UCC Trinity etc. Were they all assignments based or open book online?

Fe1student1234

CMUL wrote: »

Its a good few years since my degree just wondering what did the universities do for the last semester exams due to COVID in UL, UCC Trinity etc. Were they all assignments based or open book online?

My sister is in UCD - her law based ones were assignments

Her business/ accounting ones were online exams but open book

IgoPAP

They don't care. They never have.

Lauren1993

Is there anything to be said for them to actually become assignment base? The level of work that goes into creating a, for example, 5000 word essay is huge.

I'm employed full time and so stressed about doing the exams online. I know that WFH has been very inconsistent with wifi and I dont know how I'd cope if my internet failed mid exam.

Lauren1993

I also think if they put on online exams in less than 4 weeks time, that is completely inadequate time to prepare. I need to buy a laptop and get used to doing an exam online. I have housemates also and the environment isn't conducive to sitting an exam. I cannot travel to my home house because of covid restrictions - this is all horrific.

Can you rent office spaces for a couple of hours that are guaranteed to be quiet?

I think the law society need to come up with a better solution, this is completely inadequate.

Dliodoir2021

I do grinds/proofreading for law students. NUIG and two ITs were assignments and even got contacted by teachers and solicitors doing LS diplomas. Not sure if LS had assignments/exams before covid though.

legallyginger

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

My sister is in UCD - her law based ones were assignments

Her business/ accounting ones were online exams but open book

My NUIG final exams consisted of being given the exam papers and a deadline to complete the exam, think it was 2 weeks can't really remember (obviously not viable for Fe1s) but they were just as tough as a normal exam and I only did marginally better after weeks of preparation than I did for closed book exams!I think the main issue was having such a period of time to do them you start questioning if you should have done another question...maybe a 12 hour deadline would be better if FE1s were to go like that!

Lauren1993

legallyginger wrote: »

My NUIG final exams consisted of being given the exam papers and a deadline to complete the exam, think it was 2 weeks can't really remember (obviously not viable for Fe1s) but they were just as tough as a normal exam and I only did marginally better after weeks of preparation than I did for closed book exams!I think the main issue was having such a period of time to do them you start questioning if you should have done another question...maybe a 12 hour deadline would be better if FE1s were to go like that!

I think if they give us an exam paper and 12 to 24 hours to do it, that would be ideal. It would really help for those of us who are employed full time also. I just hope the exam "solution" is an untested online exam that crashes for half of us.

I feel like the LS dont understand the repercussions of failing these exams.

Lawlaw12

Lauren1993 wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for them to actually become assignment base? The level of work that goes into creating a, for example, 5000 word essay is huge.

I'm employed full time and so stressed about doing the exams online. I know that WFH has been very inconsistent with wifi and I dont know how I'd cope if my internet failed mid exam.

That's true, an online exam isn't the fairest solution, and will disadvantage some people more than others due to lack of wifi, lack of good technology, living in a house where there are several other people WFH and not having a quiet space to sit an exam etc.

Although, I think an assignment based exam is so different than what we're used to for the FE1's, considering with that type of exam you are generally expected to reference academic articles etc. and produce 3000-5000 word answers. Whereas usually with the FE1's the focus is concise to the point answers that can be produced in 35 mins, for instance if you've done a prep course they really focus on getting you prepared to produce a good concise answer in around 30 mins. I feel like I would need to make a whole new set of notes if it were to be changed to an assignment based exam, as I have condensed my notes and cut out a lot of useful material, and I no longer have access to the likes of Justis and other sources of academic articles etc.

I know of some colleges abroad where they email you the exam and then you do it at home and email back your answers after like 5-6 hours. I know that wouldn't be ideal either, but at least then we wouldn't need wifi access for the whole exam just to receive the exam paper and to email it back later that day. As the wifi situation would be a big worry if we need strong wifi for remote invigilation of the whole exam.

FE1new

legallyginger wrote: »

My NUIG final exams consisted of being given the exam papers and a deadline to complete the exam, think it was 2 weeks can't really remember (obviously not viable for Fe1s) but they were just as tough as a normal exam and I only did marginally better after weeks of preparation than I did for closed book exams!I think the main issue was having such a period of time to do them you start questioning if you should have done another question...maybe a 12 hour deadline would be better if FE1s were to go like that!

My exams were the same time of 3hrs and were open book. We logged onto Zoom, we could type or write them and upload the scans. The paper was made available on Moodle 15 mins before the exams. Once the time was up we had 45 mins to upload the documents or scans to Moodle and the typed ones were run through Turnitin to check for plagiarism. They were just as hard as closed book. You had no time to check notes really.

But we had notice from 20 March that this would be the case.

rebuke

FE1new wrote: »

My exams were the same time of 3hrs and were open book. We logged onto Zoom, we could type or write them and upload the scans. The paper was made available on Moodle 15 mins before the exams. Once the time was up we had 45 mins to upload the documents or scans to Moodle and the typed ones were run through Turnitin to check for plagiarism. They were just as hard as closed book. You had no time to check notes really.

But we had notice from 20 March that this would be the case.

I just don't see how something like that would be practical or feasible. Would also completely prejudice students, not to mention the fact that it is a completely different styled exam.

The majority of applicants would no longer have access to online databases like WestLaw etc., nor would they have access to college libraries for books, so I think to change to an academic essay style exam at such notice would not be fair.

dobby896

At this rate I wouldn't care if they told us we had to write the exam in Egyptian Caligraphy so long as it meant we had a timetable

emily987

UCC's final year exams were online, same structure as previous years, same amount of time plus an extra half hour for uploading answers. They were not invigilated but as previous posters have said you don't have time to consult notes anyway.

The law society should consider this approach

Fe1student304

SAMPLE EMAIL TO TDs:

Dear Deputy,

I am contacting you regarding the erroneous treatment of candidates sitting the Law Society of Ireland Final Entrance Examinations (FE-1s).

The FE-1s take place in March and October annually. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, these exams were cancelled and postponed respectively.

Two examinations were cancelled in March and rescheduled for August. This resulted in the announcement of the October sitting in September giving students only four weeks to prepare.

The Law Society of Ireland then rescheduled the October sitting for the first week in November due to level three restrictions in Dublin.

This week, the Law Society finally conceded that these exams could not take place physically and announced their intention to hold online examinations in the first week of November.

With under four weeks to the proposed date of the exams, they have failed to provide candidates with any timetable or information surrounding how such exams would take place. The absence of communication from the Law Society has created undue stress to candidates who have insufficient time to prepare and those who must inform their employers and take annual leave.

We have now been living with COVID-19 for over six months. We have all adapted and overcame this challenge so far. All higher education institutions have rose to the challenge and facilitate students online. However, the Law Society continue to blatantly disregard the welfare of the future of their profession.

I ask that you write to the Law Society of Ireland and Ministers for Higher Education and Justice on my behalf to request adequate notice for these exams.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

[name]

[Deleted User]

Send them to this thread to see the stress and frustration expressed by dozens of us!

Law20213

Deleted User wrote: »

Send them to this thread to see the stress and frustration expressed by dozens of us!

Phone call to Joe Duffy as well, although unless your doing the exams yourself public interest would be low

ScatmanWhack

I'm not convinced these exams will go ahead until the country returns to Level 2. It's been posted in this thread that LS have said they don't have anything lined up and they have clearly just given themselves until early next week to find a provider for online exams. They already stated last month that online FE1s can't be catered for, so this is just an act of desperation on their part.

My money is on them announcing next week that the exams are postponed indefinitely until a physical sitting can take place. We'll all have been taken for a ride this whole week.

IgoPAP

ScatmanWhack wrote: »

I'm not convinced these exams will go ahead until the country returns to Level 2. It's been posted in this thread that LS have said they don't have anything lined up and they have clearly just given themselves until early next week to find a provider for online exams. They already stated last month that online FE1s can't be catered for, so this is just an act of desperation on their part.

My money is on them announcing next week that the exams are postponed indefinitely until a physical sitting can take place. We'll all have been taken for a ride this whole week.

All the more evidence that automatic passes should be given to candidates that have completed those subjects at undergraduate level.

If we're to "wait until Level 2", we could we be waiting until the next sitting in March altogether.

Dliodoir2021

IgoPAP wrote: »

All the more evidence that automatic passes should be given to candidates that have completed those subjects at undergraduate level.

If we're to "wait until Level 2", we could we be waiting until the next sitting in March altogether.

Is it fair to compare a student getting a 1.1 in a Level 7 IT course, to someone passing by compensation at Level 8 university? Different standards.

lawgirl23

ScatmanWhack wrote: »

I'm not convinced these exams will go ahead until the country returns to Level 2. It's been posted in this thread that LS have said they don't have anything lined up and they have clearly just given themselves until early next week to find a provider for online exams. They already stated last month that online FE1s can't be catered for, so this is just an act of desperation on their part.

My money is on them announcing next week that the exams are postponed indefinitely until a physical sitting can take place. We'll all have been taken for a ride this whole week.

Honestly wouldn’t fall off my seat if that happens. At this stage I’ve come to expect the least expected with the Law Society!

Fe1student1234

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

Is it fair to compare a student getting a 1.1 in a Level 7 IT course, to someone passing by compensation at Level 8 university? Different standards.

Are you saying that’s not comparable ? I’d be of the opposite opinion tbh

shaunadennyham

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

Are you saying that’s not comparable ? I’d be of the opposite opinion tbh

Well obviously they’re not comparable. They should award exemptions to candidates who have attained a pass in the subject from a BCL/LLB degree or at postgraduate level. Same way that you’re exempt from Jurisprudence for the Kings Inns if you’ve done it at undergrad/postgraduate level.

Fe1student1234

shaunadennyham wrote: »

Well obviously they’re not comparable. They should award exemptions to candidates who have attained a pass in the subject from a BCL/LLB degree or at postgraduate level. Same way that you’re exempt from Jurisprudence for the Kings Inns if you’ve done it at undergrad/postgraduate level.

I agree but I think the posters argument was that undergrad and fe-1s are different standards so therefore no exemptions should be given

I may have picked up on it wrong tho

shaunadennyham

Fe1student1234 wrote: »

I agree but I think the posters argument was that undergrad and fe-1s are different standards so therefore no exemptions should be given

I may have picked up on it wrong tho

No I think they were asking if level 7 and level 8 courses are comparable which they obviously aren’t

Law20213

I’ve had a power outage for the last hour and bit, it’s the third time in 3 weeks none of it planned so online FE1 exams and slow internet speed combined will be nightmare!

Lawlaw12

Tbh even if the FE1s aren't necessarily comparable to level 8 university exams, at the end of the day these are totally unprecedented times, every other body has managed to adapt in terms of examinations and as a previous poster pointed out they have adapted in a way that allows the advantage to fall to the student. We are all having a tough time during the pandemic whether sitting these exams or not, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

My biggest frustration is the fact that these exams actually mean nothing in terms of our career, it's not like they give us any sort of qualification. The majority of us already have a law degree and we will all still have to undergo a few years of training before qualifying as a solicitor.

Back in March I'm sure we all thought sure they can't just not hold the leaving cert this year, that's a crazy suggestion. But the Dept of Education managed to come up with a system to match these unprecedented times and they did so dealing with over 60,000 students. How are the law society not willing to grant exemptions based on undergraduate exams when there are only 2000 of us, and it's clearly a once off situation. The Leaving Cert directly effects what students get to study in college and what career path they pursue, so why can the LS not do something similar for the FE1s when the only 'qualification' they give you is to allow you to enter a training contract where you will still be studying and examined over the next few years.