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General Rugby Discussion II

awec

Original thread has reached 10k posts.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057240564

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Buer

Looking at the Welsh squad, my first impression was how little new blood they have coming through up front but, when you actually analyse it, this is largely because multiple guys in there with a good few caps are still quite young. Wainwright is still only 23. Moriarty is only 26 somehow. Rhys Carre is 22. Leon Brown is 23.

They got a lot of caps in over the last few years and will probably start to benefit from this now.

Buer

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Be interested to see how some of the premiership based guys get on + English players who moved to Wales & declared due to heritage, Gats law is well and truly dead.

Sheedy most of all I’ll be interested to see, seems to be a player with a lot of talent but I find it quite surprising that he never really got that close to a chance for England in a position of relative weakness (In terms of experience at least as bar Ford and Farrell it does feel very wide open for the third spot).

England have outhalf talent coming out of their ears. Sheedy was never going to get ahead of Marcus Smith who is seen as the long term English outhalf and Joe Simmonds is still only 23 and likely to steer Exeter to a Champions Cup and league title double.

UAEguy2020

Buer wrote: »

England have outhalf talent coming out of their ears. Sheedy was never going to get ahead of Marcus Smith who is seen as the long term English outhalf and Joe Simmonds is still only 23 and likely to steer Exeter to a Champions Cup and league title double.

Like I said I was referring to experience. In terms of long term view he was never going to be viewed ahead of someone like Smith (another I would throw in who I really like is Umaga who has been in the most recent England squad) but I was referring to him not being able to force his way into the current reckoning. I’ll be interested to see how he gets on for Wales as there has been a lot of talk about him for awhile without her much attention at international level.

PTH2009

Anyone know will the new South Africa docuseries been available here???

https://www.sarugby.co.za/news-features/articles/watch-chasing-the-sun-documentary-trailer/

Brief_Lives

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/123005971/rugby-legend-willie-john-mcbride-savages-modern-game#:~:text=Willie%20John%20McBride%20feels%20there,size%20of%20modern%20rugby%20players.&text=%E2%80%9CIt%20is%20terrible%20seeing%20all,no%20difference%20to%20the%20result.

Rugby legend Willie John McBride savages modern game

Irish rugby legend Willie John McBride has savaged the modern game, lamenting the loss of rucking, the lack of space for attacking play, and the obsession with increasing player size.

McBride, who captained the British & Irish Lions and went on five tours with the famous side, delivered his damning verdict on the current game in a foreword he penned for a new book titled “Saving Rugby Union – The Price of Professionalism”.

“Rugby today is nothing like the game I played. It is a mixture of rugby union and rugby league – which is a huge influence on rugby union, with players lined up across the field against each other – and American football, with the obstruction and blocking.

“In the modern game, you can theoretically keep the ball for 40 minutes with endless phases. In the amateur era, once you went to ground you had to release the ball and get away. Players could then drive over the ball rucking the ball.

“Today, when guys go to ground they still hold on to the ball and actually place it back with their hands. It enables sides to retain the ball for phase after phase as it is so difficult for defenders to get hold of the ball at the breakdown. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

“There were never any serious injuries in rucks because you really had to release the ball and get away to avoid being raked back. If you held onto the ball you would be penalised.

“Today there are more and more pile-ups with knees and elbows hitting other players, causing injuries. Referees blow up for a scrum when the ball is buried in a pile of bodies. This simply wouldn’t happen in a ruck situation when I played.

“At the breakdown, I just don’t understand why people are tackling players who haven’t got the ball. It’s not sport – they are just charging into people to take them out. Surely the law says you cannot tackle a player who hasn’t got the ball?

“Any game is all about space. The modern game is all about closing down space with players lining across the pitch because of phase rugby. The one thing that strikes me is why did they change our game?”

McBride felt the use of too many substitutes was increasing the injury rate rather than easing it.

He felt players should be equipped to last an entire 80-minute match and, like in his time, should only be replaced when injured.

“I’ve seen young guys from academies who have been told: ‘You’re too light. You have to put on two stones if you are to be successful.’ Kids are growing. They are fed all these food supplements I call drugs and doing all these weights,” McBride, who played 63 tests for Ireland, wrote in “Saving Rugby Union – The Price of Professionalism”.

“Their bones can’t take what their muscles are demanding. This is wrong. The one thing I was taught when I was growing up was to be supple. They are muscle-bound and more prone to injuries

“It is terrible seeing all these people running off and on the pitch in an international. Recently a player was brought on with a minute to go – it could make no difference to the result.

“I once asked my old adversary Colin Meads how would you feel if they took you off with 20 minutes to go? I can’t repeat what he said, but it was more or less ‘you can stuff the game’.”

McBride, now 80, also hit out at the way players were able to choose their allegiances, with players born in one country playing for another.

He felt a 10-year residency rule was one way of addressing this.

McBride was also disappointed with the way English clubs were dictating the game there and felt that had a bad impact on the Lions.

Squidgy Black

Quin_Dub

To be fair , the man is not wrong about rucking.

The fear of a good shoeing would resolve a whole host of issues.

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair , the man is not wrong about rucking.

The fear of a good shoeing would resolve a whole host of issues.

There’s a whole generation coming through who won’t know the joy of going to work Monday with your back and legs criss crossed with stud marks.

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

There’s a whole generation coming through who won’t know the joy of going to work Monday with your back and legs criss crossed with stud marks.

I have a particular personal memory of attending a Black-tie gala with my girlfriend (now wife) sporting a clearly defined boot-print on my face (Adidas Flanker I believe!!).

Suffice to say she was not amused!

bilston

The game has changed a lot since the late 90s/early 00 noughties, never mind the 60s and 70s.

Quin_Dub

bilston wrote: »

The game has changed a lot since the late 90s/early 00 noughties, never mind the 60s and 70s.

Absolutely , and change in general is good but certainly since the advent of Professionalism there has been far too much fidgeting going on in an effort to "improve the product" to try to drive TV revenue etc.

Change should be organic , driven by innovative players and coaches looking for an advantage.

Not via Focus groups interested in advertising revenue.

jacothelad

salmocab wrote: »

There’s a whole generation coming through who won’t know the joy of going to work Monday with your back and legs criss crossed with stud marks.

...or with 8 stitches less than half an inch from the inside of your right eye on a circular gash caused by being 'rucked' on the head by a player wearing worn out, hollow metal studs. That was always a laugh.

salmocab

jacothelad wrote: »

...or with 8 stitches less than half an inch from the inside of your right eye on a circular gash caused by being 'rucked' on the head by a player wearing worn out, hollow metal studs. That was always a laugh.

Great days

awec

McBride would never make it as a forward in modern rugby. His build seems closer to a back these days.

jacothelad

awec wrote: »

McBride would never make it as a forward in modern rugby. His build seems closer to a back these days.

He absolutely would. He was a massive man. Not only that, his will to win was terrifying.

Quin_Dub

awec wrote: »

McBride would never make it as a forward in modern rugby. His build seems closer to a back these days.

jacothelad wrote: »

He absolutely would. He was a massive man. Not only that, his will to win was terrifying.

Definitely not a 2nd row for certain , but would make a pretty handy 6 I'd suggest with plenty of bite.

awec

jacothelad wrote: »

He absolutely would. He was a massive man. Not only that, his will to win was terrifying.

Well then wikipedia is lying to me, cause it lists him as 6'4" and ~16stone.

Quin_Dub

awec wrote: »

Well then wikipedia is lying to me, cause it lists him as 6'4" and ~16stone.

Like I said - A 6 :-)

aloooof

awec wrote: »

McBride would never make it as a forward in modern rugby. His build seems closer to a back these days.

He must be in serious nick for an 80 year old then

Dog Botherer

thebaz

McBride was huge for his time , I grew up when Neil Francis was a freak , size wise - See Ciaran Fitzergerald around looks tiny for a hooker - not sure what has happened that we have so many 6 foot 8 giants , and 18 stone hookers different from when i played.

[Deleted User]

Haskell was on Second Captains podcast (yesterday I think), he's an interesting guy. Goes on a bit of a rant here or there but it's fun to hear it rather than the user super-sanitized stuff you get from rugby players.

penybont exile

Steve Fenwick & Ray Gravell were regarded a big bruising centres back in their day ...... both below 14 st & less than 6'.

I agree with a lot of what McBride is saying ...... the drive for revenue has definitely come at a cost.

Today there is a huge amount of time wasted over scrums, line outs & don't get me going about goal kicking ..... 60 seconds & more ...... takes 15% (of time) out of most games

Burkie1203

penybont exile wrote: »

Steve Fenwick & Ray Gravell were regarded a big bruising centres back in their day ...... both below 14 st & less than 6'.

I agree with a lot of what McBride is saying ...... the drive for revenue has definitely come at a cost.

Today there is a huge amount of time wasted over scrums, line outs & don't get me going about goal kicking ..... 60 seconds & more ...... takes 15% (of time) out of most games

One way to speed up the game a fraction is any penalty conceded in your own 22 should result in an automatic 5m line lineout if the attacking team choose to go to the corner.

pickarooney

Did anyone get/stay up for Bledisloe 1?

Daaaamn

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

Did anyone get/stay up for Bledisloe 1?

Daaaamn

Tea in the cup, about to press play now

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

Tea in the cup, about to press play now

Enjoy!

bilston

Interested Observer wrote: »

Haskell was on Second Captains podcast (yesterday I think), he's an interesting guy. Goes on a bit of a rant here or there but it's fun to hear it rather than the user super-sanitized stuff you get from rugby players.

Haskell is good on podcasts. The Godd The Bad and The Rugby is a good listen. They had Jonny Sexton on about 2 weeks ago...well worth a listen

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

Enjoy!

That was exciting.... But so bloody frustrating.

The most headless 'overtime' I've ever witnessed. Have both teams completely forgotten that drop kicks are a valid form of scoring?
After hodges pen hits the penalty neither o Connor nor toamua made any effort to drop in the pocket, even though aussie had ruck's on the five in the middle of the pitch.

And mounga was actually worse. On both 86 AND 88 mins he actively walked from the pocket to stand at the back of a ruck five meters out to scratch his arse. I'd be livid if I was a kiwi supporter..... Completely chickened out.

The game was weird, the weather was a big leveller. In dangunu australia have a gem of a wing, he's koribete but with intelligence. O'connor played as a 12, which meant he held the kiwi attention in defense and that had really showed for koribetes try.

Reiko had a complete mare.... Starting from that unforgivable drop, to being sucked in for that try.

Great to see Dave rennie giving youth and inexperience a try.

[Deleted User]

sydthebeat wrote: »

That was exciting.... But so bloody frustrating.

The most headless 'overtime' I've ever witnessed. Have both teams completely forgotten that drop kicks are a valid form of scoring?
After hodges pen hits the penalty neither o Connor nor toamua made any effort to drop in the pocket, even though aussie had ruck's on the five in the middle of the pitch.

And mounga was actually worse. On both 86 AND 88 mins he actively walked from the pocket to stand at the back of a ruck five meters out to scratch his arse. I'd be livid if I was a kiwi supporter..... Completely chickened out.

The game was weird, the weather was a big leveller. In dangunu australia have a gem of a wing, he's koribete but with intelligence. O'connor played as a 12, which meant he held the kiwi attention in defense and that had really showed for koribetes try.

Reiko had a complete mare.... Starting from that unforgivable drop, to being sucked in for that try.

Great to see Dave rennie giving youth and inexperience a try.

Watched live with the volume off. A lot of poor rugby, but don't think the conditions helped.

What was said for the last penalty that Aussie scored? It looked like he was penalised for not rolling away, but he had flicked the ball back onto the All Black's side when he was on his feet?