Richie_Rich89 wrote: » Obama created the refugee crisis by destabilising Libya and sponsoring terrorists in Syria to try to topple al-Assad. He also effectively created IS by pulling out of Iraq too fast.
KatmaiNPS wrote: Today’s the day we will crown 2020’s Fat Bear Week Champion. Where 747’s sedulous quest for salmon secured him a stout stomach, 32 Chunk’s playful pursuit of protein provided him a prodigious paunch. Who will win in the battle of the bellies?
thomond2006 wrote: » Anyone for putting Trump talk on a separate off topic thread?
sydthebeat wrote: » wow thats some level of revisionism there. Islamic State emerged out of Al Queda (it was a splinter group) in response to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003... 8 years before Obama. ISIS as a grouping within Al Queda has existed since 1999. Obama has always admitted that the failure to plan for the aftermath of gaddafi's death was his biggest mistake, however its not as if Libya was a bastion of peaceful enterprise before obama had any influence. lets not forget that Gaddafi was killed by his own countrymen, not an american mission strike. whats happening in Syria is civil war... born from the Arab spring of 2011....which would have happened regardless of any intervention from the US or the UN. In fact the stick widely used to beat Obama with in regards to syria is the LACK of intervention and influence in the region. Remember Assad fired chemical weapons on his own people and Obama reneged on his previous promise to match fire with fire. Obama made many mistakes in his presidency and was in no way a "peaceful"president... but some of that revisionism (the last line especially) is straight from the Donald Trump play book and should be called out for the untruth it is.
Richie_Rich89 wrote: » What were Islamic State before they moved into the vacuum in Iraq and expanded massively? Nothing. That's what. No-one had ever heard of them. Of course, the Americans should never have been in Iraq in the first place. You can lay that at the feet of Bush. He should be up at the Hague on crimes against humanity charges. Along with Blair. Gaddafi's overthrowing in Libya is the biggest advertisement possible for dictators not committing to nuclear disarmament. The "civil war" angle in Syria is largely western propaganda. There were elements at the start along those lines but it quickly descended into western-backed Islamic extremists versus government forces. The terrorists were being backed from outside to try to achieve the end goal of putting a US puppet in as leader like has happened in Egypt. They wanted to be able to build that gas pipeline through Syria and remove Russia's only deepwater Mediterranean port. Frankly, I'm not sure you can believe the claims of chemical attacks after all the weapons of mass destruction stuff used as a pretext for the Iraq War.
swiwi_ wrote: » This from the NFL guy...
Squidgy Black wrote: » Can't believe people still respond to Richie's posts.
straight from the Donald Trump play book and should be called out for the untruth it is.
sydthebeat wrote: » this is way just in case you were wondering
sydthebeat wrote: » ah here..... so you agree Obama didnt create IS..... the libyan popular uprising actually destabilized the region .... and you believe the syrian civil war is propaganda hummmm. no point in debating with someone who flip flops and dismisses fact.
kuang1 wrote: » I take it you enjoyed "the social dilemma" then Venjur? Sorry everyone for banging on about this documentary yet again, but a must see for everybody with a social media account or smartphone imo. Explains some, maybe most, of why what you just posted is true.
Bazzo wrote: » So to get back to the real off topic topic: Trump just single handedly tanked the US stock market. Not sure how he thinks this is a good idea a month out from the election.
pickarooney wrote: » What did he do exactly?
Guinness RFC wrote: » the internet it is a battle ground and the truth lies between both sides arguing.
sydthebeat wrote: » Is that not again an impeachable action as he is using his presidential powers for political gain?? He's trying to essentially buy votes with money
mfceiling wrote: » It was an eye opener I have to admit. I hate the way they "tailor" the search results or news feed to suit what they believe is your narrative. You can't have a reasoned opinion on anything if you keep getting fed what they believe you want to see/hear. I would be slightly more right wing than centre but I respect and will listen to more left leaning views (hell I read the guardian most days). I'm fcuked if I'm interested in getting propaganda peddled to me without listening or reading counter arguments. How the hell can you have a proper view on what's happening in the world if you get one side of a story.
mfceiling wrote: » I hate the way they "tailor" the search results
[Deleted User] wrote: » He is refusing to discuss any further stimulus, effectively leaving the US without any safety net during covid (in a country that already has virtually no social safety net). Anyone having to isolate or any lockdown will be done with no financial support (at least at a federal level). The wealthier blue states already have pretty good supports in place but ironically red states will hurt proportionately more because of this. It will hit public spending but with unemployment at record highs it's going to push a huge amount of people into poverty and it's EXTREMELY hard to get out of poverty in America. The DOW took a hammering after the announcement because the stimulus was primarily to keep businesses open whilst providing supplemental income to individuals and families. It will alienate people on both sides of the political aisle but it's clear he isn't planning on winning the election with votes anymore, he is too far behind at this point. Instead he want's the current senate to force through the appointment of his Supreme Court pick who he feels he will need to defraud the election. He wants riots, discord and an extremely hostile climate as people go to the ballots so that in the chaos he can over ride the vote. This isn't the case though is it. You have foreign actors pumping misinformation into social discourse and driving the window of discussion increasingly to the political right. There is no middle ground here - it's misinformation and propaganda which people adopt as part of their world view. Case in point we've seen it twice in this thread over the last few pages, and on neither occasion did the truth lie in the middle - both individuals were repeating propaganda that is easily disprovable. When the UK is targeting civil rights lawyers at a home office / prime ministerial level you know things have changed dramatically in a very short time. Again - this isn't based on finding either side of the truth, this is a political movement that retains supports by creating enemies - in this instance, immigrants at a time when there are FAR greater societal issues facing the UK. And this idea that people aren't swayed by what they read is nonsense. Brexit is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in history and it's well established how voting trends changed dramatically in the lead up to the vote. Advertising and propaganda are well established tools that business and politics spends a fortune on. When the Tory party in the UK attempted to break the law - they tweeted after they won the first vote that "Labour sided with the EU again" just because they voted in opposition to breaking international law. That is an entire mischaracterisation of what happened and is pure propaganda and I've subsequently seen it echoed on social media. Where is the middle ground meant to be against such dishonesty? If you don't think propaganda works - how is it that Christian evangelicals elected the most immoral, unchristian President in modern American history? People are treating politics as a game, the financiers of populist movements like the Republican and Tory parties are NOT playing games, they are making investments and are getting rewarded. The useful idiots on the ballots are so devoid of integrity that they'll go to whatever extreme necessary to ensure the retention of power. We are seeing this play out in real time - the natural conclusion of what we are seeing is fascism and America is knocking firmly on that door right now. It really isn't a game and people need to grow up and start taking themselves, their political decisions and information sources a lot more seriously.
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