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Child Item

Covid in Schools

TheValeyard

Since we're all back, maybe it's time for a thread about dealing with Covid in schools as it's now beginning to become a reality.

Coming to a school near you!

Be interesting to hear about schools responses to outbreaks, procedures put in place, what works and does not work and the Dept response.

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khalessi

yrreg0850 wrote: »

If the schools close , The teacers will then be in the same position as other workers whose employment is closed.

But with one big difference --- will they settle for the covid payments instead of their big salaries.

Well like some people we will be wfh. Hopefully it will be better this time for everyone

Bobtheman

yrreg0850 wrote: »

If the schools close , The teacers will then be in the same position as other workers whose employment is closed.

But with one big difference --- will they settle for the covid payments instead of their big salaries.

Yep you got me . I don't have the space for my cars out front.
Like any employee if you work from home you should still be paid. Are you following this you dim wxx

wirelessdude01

yrreg0850 wrote: »

If the schools close , The teacers will then be in the same position as other workers whose employment is closed.

But with one big difference --- will they settle for the covid payments instead of their big salaries.

YAWN

LawBoy2018

Bobtheman wrote: »

Then why can't the same happen in every workplace in Ireland under level 5? If what you say would take care of covid?
Personally I don't think it's that simple. I really don't think you do either

I'm 100% in favour of teachers and feel like they should be the ones to make the call if they ultimately feel unsafe. However, I would consider their role as essential and akin to that of a garda, a nurse, a doctor etc. That's just my opinion + is obviously no more qualified than anyone else's.

LawBoy2018

My sister is in leaving cert and she found the virtual learning absolutely useless. The teachers made no effort at all and she suffered due to their resistance to change. Unless every single school in Ireland can implement a minimum standard of teaching that leaves no student behind, despite their Eircode, the schools need to stay opened. I think most teachers would agree.

Treppen

khalessi wrote: »

Well like some people we will be wfh. Hopefully it will be better this time for everyone

I admire your optimism Khalessi. Why would it be any different? If anything it'll be worse. Many teachers threw themselves into it March, April, May with zero guidance (I mean proper guidance) , zero IT support, zero ground-rules for interacting with students online.

Because we've done all of the above and muddled through, that was our training ,we're now qualified and fully supported if it happens again.

I haven't heard anything about this millions promised in IT+Training, as things stand there are still schools that refuse to provide face-masks for teachers.

As someone mentioned earlier, they demand us to be professionals in delivering education, but when it comes to providing funds teachers cough up time after time because 'it's a vocation'. I know many teachers who've already shelled out on masks, extra protection, IT for broadcasting their voice, laptops to do their work (sorry, but tablets are crap when it comes to preparing lessons), pay for their own broadband, use their own phones, use their own phones/dongles to compensate for the poor WIFI in their own schools.

LawBoy2018

Treppen wrote: »

I admire your optimism Khalessi. Why would it be any different? If anything it'll be worse. Many teachers threw themselves into it March, April, May with zero guidance (I mean proper guidance) , zero IT support, zero ground-rules for interacting with students online.

Because we've done all of the above and muddled through, that was our training ,we're now qualified and fully supported if it happens again.

I haven't heard anything about this millions promised in IT+Training, as things stand there are still schools that refuse to provide face-masks for teachers.

As someone mentioned earlier, they demand us to be professionals in delivering education, but when it comes to providing funds teachers cough up time after time because 'it's a vocation'. I know many teachers who've already shelled out on masks, extra protection, IT for broadcasting their voice, laptops to do their work (sorry, but tablets are crap when it comes to preparing lessons), pay for their own broadband, use their own phones, use their own phones/dongles to compensate for the poor WIFI in their own schools.

Wouldn't all of the items you mentioned be tax deductible? What's the issue with teachers using their own laptops/phones? Are you really complaining about teachers having to buy their own face masks? I despair...

khalessi

Treppen wrote: »

I admire your optimism Khalessi. Why would it be any different? If anything it'll be worse. Many teachers threw themselves into it March, April, May with zero guidance (I mean proper guidance) , zero IT support, zero ground-rules for interacting with students online.

Because we've done all of the above and muddled through, that was our training ,we're now qualified and fully supported if it happens again.

I haven't heard anything about this millions promised in IT+Training, as things stand there are still schools that refuse to provide face-masks for teachers.

As someone mentioned earlier, they demand us to be professionals in delivering education, but when it comes to providing funds teachers cough up time after time because 'it's a vocation'. I know many teachers who've already shelled out on masks, extra protection, IT for broadcasting their voice, laptops to do their work (sorry, but tablets are crap when it comes to preparing lessons), pay for their own broadband, use their own phones, use their own phones/dongles to compensate for the poor WIFI in their own schools.

Agreed, many also buying amplifiers to help teach and be heard in masks. I just hope that if we close that things improve for educators and children online. Laptops should be provided to kids, have some trying to do homework on phones.

jrosen

Bobtheman wrote: »

Then why can't the same happen in every workplace in Ireland under level 5? If what you say would take care of covid?
Personally I don't think it's that simple. I really don't think you do either

Your not comparing like with like. For many private firms they have the IT/training and know how to enable their employees to work from home. In many cases those employees are doing their job to the exact same standard.

That is not the case for teachers. Between lack of knowledge, lack of equipment, lack of guidance, lack of training to name a few reasons we dont have what it takes to deliver a standard of education across Ireland to every student.

Untill that changes there is no alternative than students in school.

Benicetomonty

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I'm 100% in favour of teachers and feel like they should be the ones to make the call if they ultimately feel unsafe. However, I would consider their role as essential and akin to that of a garda, a nurse, a doctor etc. That's just my opinion + is obviously no more qualified than anyone else's.

They arent the same. The three professions you mention, most obviously the latter two, involve people whose interventions can be the difference between life and death for the people they work with. As important as schools and teachers are, they are not life and death. By keeping them open at all costs you are placing more people at serious risk than you are helping. Which is not a logical response to the situation.

Bobtheman

jrosen wrote: »

Your not comparing like with like. For many private firms they have the IT/training and know how to enable their employees to work from home. In many cases those employees are doing their job to the exact same standard.

That is not the case for teachers. Between lack of knowledge, lack of equipment, lack of guidance, lack of training to name a few reasons we dont have what it takes to deliver a standard of education across Ireland to every student.

Untill that changes there is no alternative than students in school.

I am a teacher. I was trying ineffectively to make your point.
Our workplace is not replicated anywhere else. If a lock down happens again I would not feel safe going back.

Treppen

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Wouldn't all of the items you mentioned be tax deductible?

Would you also suggest that I pay for the students books also, "because it's tax deductable"?
If my employer wants me to use it then they should provide it.

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

What's the issue with teachers using their own laptops/phones?

Because it's for work it should be provided by your employer. BTW the dept. allocated 50m this year for IT, where did the money go?

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Are you really complaining about teachers having to buy their own face masks? I despair...

Would I complain if the school didn't provide soap or hand sanitizer? Hell ya.

What's your own job?

shesty

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Playing for time is what I'm getting from Leo.

I picked it up as see how we go, long winter ahead and jumping the gun to a Level 5 will lose people completely if it is needed again later...like December.

I think they are also very, very wary of any major moves that would hurt business in the run up to Christmas.And as much as people can give out about the economy taking precedence over people's health, the reality is that we all need an income of some sort to survive, and 6 months in, people's livelihoods must be considered too.

I would honestly love to know what they have been at in the last 6 months to improve the health system for the winter.Nothing, would be my guess.....

LawBoy2018

Benicetomonty wrote: »

They arent the same. The three professions you mention, most obviously the latter two, involve people whose interventions can be the difference between life and death for the people they work with. As important as schools and teachers are, they are not life and death. By keeping them open at all costs you are placing more people at serious risk than you are helping. Which is not a logical response to the situation.

That's your opinion. Education is a cornerstone of our society and is absolutely essential. If it can't be provided adequately in a virtual manner, then the schools will need to stay opened. What about shop keepers? Butchers? Post office clerks? They continue to get the job done, no questions asked.

khalessi

He did make one interesting comment something along the lines of NPHET wanted the schools left open in Level 5 but we didnt think it was a good idea.

Makes me wonder whose idea it was in the first place. I would have thought NPHET would want schools closed for health and safety reasons.

LawBoy2018

Treppen wrote: »

Would you also suggest that I pay for the students books also, "because it's tax deductable"?
If my employer wants me to use it then they should provide it.

Because it's for work it should be provided by your employer. BTW the dept. allocated 50m this year for IT, where did the money go?

Would I complain if the school didn't provide soap or hand sanitizer? Hell ya.

What's your own job?

You made it sound as if the teachers you mentioned would be out of pocket, which is false.

Do you expect schools to provide disposable face masks to every teacher, every day? Here's an idea, buy a pack of 3 reusable masks for €5 from Supervalu. If you're that hard pressed for it, once again, claim it back via Revenue.

Monotype

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

You made it sound as if the teachers you mentioned would be out of pocket, which is false.

Do you expect schools to provide disposable face masks to every teacher, every day? Here's an idea, buy a pack of 3 reusable masks for €5 from Supervalu. If you're that hard pressed for it, once again, claim it back via Revenue.

Teachers aren't self employed, they can't claim additional expenses (aside from the flat rate to cover teaching council fees etc.).

khalessi

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

You made it sound as if the teachers you mentioned would be out of pocket, which is false.

Do you expect schools to provide disposable face masks to every teacher, every day? Here's an idea, buy a pack of 3 reusable masks for €5 from Supervalu. If you're that hard pressed for it, once again, claim it back via Revenue.

Can you explain to me how most sectors are supplying ppe why you expect teachers to pay for their own? As it is education is known as the sector where you steal from home to use in work Most teachers put their hands in their pockets to make up for shortages in the classroom, whether it is supplies or to play for lunch for kids who dont have it. Parents do the same with the "voluntary contribution".

The least that can be done is supply PPE afterall they have now said we are frontline workers. Frontline enough to keep schools open but not frontline enough for ppe as SNAs and other staff are still fighting for it to be provided in some schools or the flu vaccine.

Treppen

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

You made it sound as if the teachers you mentioned would be out of pocket, which is false.

Do you expect schools to provide disposable face masks to every teacher, every day? Here's an idea, buy a pack of 3 reusable masks for €5 from Supervalu. If you're that hard pressed for it, once again, claim it back via Revenue.

Well it's like this, my school provide washable ones because the government have allocated every school the funds to do so.
Other schools do not provide anything.

What's your own job, are you self employed?

Rosita

shesty wrote: »

I picked it up as see how we go, long winter ahead and jumping the gun to a Level 5 will lose people completely if it is needed again later...like December.

I think they are also very, very wary of any major moves that would hurt business in the run up to Christmas.And as much as people can give out about the economy taking precedence over people's health, the reality is that we all need an income of some sort to survive, and 6 months in, people's livelihoods must be considered too.

I would honestly love to know what they have been at in the last 6 months to improve the health system for the winter. Nothing, would be my guess.....

I'd have thought that the argument for action now would be to ensure that there is economic activity around Christmas. Not moving early potentially threatens that.

Varadker commented that NPHET couldn't really answer the question of what if an extension to the lockdown was necessary, what then? But he should have been picked up on that by the interviewer. That's not an argument against the necessity for action. sounds more like a tacit acceptance that it might be necessary but we can't work it out politically.

spurious

Thinly veiled teacher bashing rearing its head, disguised as tax issues. Please report all suspect posts and block those posting them.

Benicetomonty

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

That's your opinion. Education is a cornerstone of our society and is absolutely essential. If it can't be provided adequately in a virtual manner, then the schools will need to stay opened. What about shop keepers? Butchers? Post office clerks? They continue to get the job done, no questions asked.

It isnt an opinion. A 'cornerstone' education may be. Life or death it is not. Shop keepers and butchers (who work under very different and vastly safer conditions in the context of Covid19) provide food and drink which keep people alive. Post offices provide some people with necessary funds to purchase aforementioned food and drink.
The schools closed for 3 months at the end of the last school year. Nobody died from this enforced absence. In fact, even the most stubborn of folk would probably concede lives were saved by it.

Cell1e

I was thinking that going to level 5 might have been a good idea for a month so we could have some sort of normal(ish) Christmas. I'm hoping that by only going a little higher to level 3 nationwide that the local businesses don't end up having to shut during their biggest shopping time of the year.

But maybe the level 3 will be enough.

For me personally, I would not be happy to be in my classroom during a level 5, school is my workplace, I have no wish to catch Covid and take it home to the people I love.

I will not give my life or my families lives for a job.

byhookorbycrook

I'm a high (very high) risk or moderate risk teacher, if you listen to Medmark. I've seen close relations contract Covid and how it has impacted on them. But take my health issues out of it, there are extremely vulnerable students in most schools and very vulnerable members of the wider school community who deserve protection.

The DES has gambled all on throwing all of those groups to the wind.They have had since March to set up some standard blended learnig platform across schools, but didn't. How many members of the school community have to become seriously ill/die before people recognize the peril their children and families are exposed to every day. No social distancing in classes, " pods" which are the table system we always use that won't stop head lice, never mind Covid?

TheValeyard

Cell1e wrote: »

I was thinking that going to level 5 might have been a good idea for a month so we could have some sort of normal(ish) Christmas. I'm hoping that by only going a little higher to level 3 nationwide that the local businesses don't end up having to shut during their biggest shopping time of the year.

But maybe the level 3 will be enough.

For me personally, I would not be happy to be in my classroom during a level 5, school is my workplace, I have no wish to catch Covid and take it home to the people I love.

I will not give my life or my families lives for a job.

Plan maybe close week before Halloween and week after, see if that can break the rise in numbers.

wirelessdude01

TheValeyard wrote: »

Plan maybe close week before Halloween and week after, see if that can break the rise in numbers.

Seen a few variations of that rumour today.

man_no_plan

You will hear all sorts.

I would argue that schools would be safer under level 5 as all the mixing outside would cease. Right now, depending on where you are, schools could potentially be risky.

Bobtheman

man_no_plan wrote: »

You will hear all sorts.

I would argue that schools would be safer under level 5 as all the mixing outside would cease. Right now, depending on where you are, schools could potentially be risky.

Safe for whom exactly? Adults teaching 15-19 year olds ? If the rest of the population is meant to stay at home..I can hardly see the justification of risking my health. The argument is flimsy.

khalessi

man_no_plan wrote: »

You will hear all sorts.

I would argue that schools would be safer under level 5 as all the mixing outside would cease. Right now, depending on where you are, schools could potentially be risky.

Indeed you do hear all sorts, except the numbers of schools with clusters or the actual total cases in schools. I wonder why that is.

As of yesterday 168 cases in 144 primary schools
178 in 135 secondary schools
12 preschools with 12 cases.

and those numbers do not include all schools with cases at each level as the HSE have stopped issuing letters as they do not want them shared online.

byhookorbycrook

As long as schools will be open, many people won't take the measures seriously.