Gervais08 wrote: » Excellent article today in the Examiner about a Sikh family who live in Direct Provision- they have made such a good life here with their chance, kids doing well - and now handing out free masks to their local community. I’d take hundreds more of these into the country!
Mr. Karate wrote: » Sikh's are decent, hard working people. Plus they're on our side when it comes to Islam.
SEPT 23 1989 wrote: » They are good people No problem with them coming here
J_M_G wrote: » I agree that they are generally good people. I'd take them over many other groups any day. Here's a question for you though. How many are you ok with coming here? How much are you willing to dilute down the native population? What's the percentage? We need to start explicitly defining this line, because if we don't, we're going to wake up in less than 50 years as a minority in our own homeland if current trends continue, and there's no reason to think they won't.
Geuze wrote: » Here's my policy: (1) strongly discourage Irish emigration by making sure plenty of jobs here (2) EU migration welcome, if tens of thousands of central Europeans arrive, so be it (3) severe restrictions on non-EU migration (4) the 6,900 refugees to be accepted under the current two programmes seems ok to me (5) asylum claims to be processed at airport within 7 days
Tombo2001 wrote: » Who is 'us'?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » It has good aspects and bad aspects. Some such as Nigerian born Ola Majekodunmi end up more Irish than any native Irish themselves.
Many highly educated migrants have carved out successful lives in Ireland Dr Abdullahi El-Tom from Sudan for example. Some educated immigrants such as Ashok Varadkar (Father of former Taoiseach Leo) moved to Ireland to work as a Doctor. They settle extremely well in Ireland and thier foreign background is of no hinderance to success. Of ether themseleves or thier family.
However, others end up in ghetto type estates, fighting with the working class native Irish. I find it is normally the working class who are most threatened by immigrants. As many will start from the bottom up and are willing to work harder than the native Irish. This is where the tensions arise. An excuse to attack 'other'.
The main stumbling block of multiculturalism is not race, but lower socio-economic backgrounds and ignorance.
Deleted User wrote: » You'll always be able to pick out individuals who have integrated well. That's part of the problem TBH. Plucking out individuals to suggest that the remainder will do the same. Take English for example. I've taught English in Asia at all levels. It's not what I'm doing now, but I can remember what it's like. It takes time, even while being in an English speaking country to gain a working use of the language... and that's the language for day-to-day usage. For professional/office work, a whole load of technical language and cultural absorption is needed... and that takes years.. with the best students. Most migrants arrive in Ireland with broken English.. I've done volunteer community driven workshops in the Midlands teaching migrants and Travellers English... the levels on arrival are not good. This being a focus on speaking rather than getting stuck into writing.Migrants, of the types, we're getting are simply not prepared to live independently in a English speaking First world nation.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Your post sounded good until the very end 'migrants of the types we're getting'. There is always those who are genuine asylum seekers and double checked by the refugee documentation centrehttps://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/lawyers-and-experts/research-information/refugee-documentation-centre-services/ But there are always going to be some who slip through the cracks, admittedly. On the other side of things there are plenty of migrants who are over qualified with degrees and so on. Plus they cannot get jobs in Ireland except Security Guards and the like. Despite being fluent in English. Of course there are going to be others from the lower rung of the ladder with little or no English. Should fluent English and be degree educated be a prerequisite on entry to Ireland?I find the whole tone of the 100% anti migrant side ironic considering only 150 years ago. Irish people fled famine and persecution (many with no English) and had to suffer the same 'we don't like your types around here' vibes. It was not Ireland's best and brightest who went on the boat to England/USA as maids and labourers, for example.I still firmly believe it is a native working class Irish issue. As any migrants who work harder than them will easily overtake them. And in a generation or so will have overtaken them in social status. That is the real fear when it comes down to it. As there are many working class Irish who have generations that are dependant on social welfare, and have few in thier family that even thought about going to 3rd level. I think hard luck, that is the way of the world. However, they do not see it like that. It is some else's fault not theirs. And all it will take is one eloquent "Irish Enoch Powell" to ignite the working class resentment at the right time and there will be an explosion.It is not the migrants that is the issue but the lazy element of the native Irish working class. They can easily be whipped up into a frenzy if someone else is found to blame for thier problems.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Your post sounded good until the very end 'migrants of the types we're getting'.
There is always those who are genuine asylum seekers and double checked by the refugee documentation centrehttps://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/lawyers-and-experts/research-information/refugee-documentation-centre-services/ But there are always going to be some who slip through the cracks, admittedly. On the other side of things there are plenty of migrants who are over qualified with degrees and so on. Plus they cannot get jobs in Ireland except Security Guards and the like. Despite being fluent in English.
Of course there are going to be others from the lower rung of the ladder with little or no English. Should fluent English and be degree educated be a prerequisite on entry to Ireland?
I find the whole tone of the 100% anti migrant side ironic considering only 150 years ago. Irish people fled famine and persecution (many with no English) and had to suffer the same 'we don't like your types around here' vibes. It was not Ireland's best and brightest who went on the boat to England/USA as maids and labourers, for example.
I still firmly believe it is a native working class Irish issue. As any migrants who work harder than them will easily overtake them. And in a generation or so will have overtaken them in social status. That is the real fear when it comes down to it. As there are many working class Irish who have generations that are dependant on social welfare, and have few in thier family that even thought about going to 3rd level. I think hard luck, that is the way of the world. However, they do not see it like that. It is some else's fault not theirs. And all it will take is one eloquent "Irish Enoch Powell" to ignite the working class resentment at the right time and there will be an explosion. It is not the migrants that is the issue but the lazy element of the native Irish working class. They can easily be whipped up into a frenzy if someone else is found to blame for thier problems.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I still firmly believe it is a native working class Irish issue. As any migrants who work harder than them will easily overtake them. And in a generation or so will have overtaken them in social status. That is the real fear when it comes down to it. As there are many working class Irish who have generations that are dependant on social welfare, and have few in thier family that even thought about going to 3rd level. I think hard luck, that is the way of the world. However, they do not see it like that. It is some else's fault not theirs. And all it will take is one eloquent "Irish Enoch Powell" to ignite the working class resentment at the right time and there will be an explosion. It is not the migrants that is the issue but the lazy element of the native Irish working class. They can easily be whipped up into a frenzy if someone else is found to blame for thier problems.
TomTomTim wrote: » The first bold bit has been dealt with on these threads possibly hundreds of times by now. What's the point in people typing the same thing again, when you people just ignore it? The second bit really shows your mindset. It's the typical, immigrants great, native Irish bad, mindset that is so common with you types.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Firstly, so people who have just commented on the thread now get shouted down and told to read the whole thread in it's entirety? That is lovely. If that was to hold true on all boards.ie threads. I believe the site would not last long.
Secondly, what you have done is attempt to conflate my point to suit your own agenda.NOWHERE did I state all immigrants great, native Irish bad. My point was far more nuanced and may have gone over your head? Finally, perhaps what I have said was too close to the bone for you as it certainly gives off that impression.
Sand wrote: » I think its telling that you consider concerns over mass migration to be an issue for people who are easily outworked, will be overtaken in social status, dependent, uneducated, lazy, fearful, easily manipulated and eager to blame others for their problems. A low status issue for low status people who should be cast aside if they cant compete, right? It seems to me then that your convictions around this issue have more to do with trying to portray yourself as high status. You're not concerned about competing with the rest of the world, because you're none of the above right? Which completely misses addressing why must Irish people compete tooth and claw with third world labor? Why shouldn't the Irish state represent the interests of the Irish people first and foremost?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I find the whole tone of the 100% anti migrant side ironic considering only 150 years ago. Irish people fled famine and persecution (many with no English) and had to suffer the same 'we don't like your types around here' vibes. It was not Ireland's best and brightest who went on the boat to England/USA as maids and labourers, for example.
Deleted User wrote: » First, you weren't shouted down by anyone. Second, you don't need to read the whole thread. Just make an effort and read ten or so past pages to get up to speed with what's been covered. Posters make allowances for new people joining in on a long running thread, but at the same time, it gets tiresome seeing the exact same points being made.. obvious ones that have been countered repeatedly. You focused entirely on working class Irish as the ones having grievances... twice. You should consider the content of your own posts. And don't throw out the emotional response BS. It's been done before and it's a sad sad comeback. Argue your points. Show us why we should agree with you. Its really that simple.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Irish people have to compete will all labour not just third world labour. We live in a world when most of technology is made in China. Guinness's biggest market is Nigeria. And Ireland has done well out of attracting FDI from US tech giants. The very nature of the world is competition and the cream will rise to the top. Barring the odd exception.
Stop people coming in completely and see what happens? Might as well as pull out of the EU as well Ireland has enough Eastern Europeans?
Example: Who picks Irish fruit = non-Irish. Why because the non-Irish are willing to do hard labour and work for low pay.
Irish people have done exactly the same thing worldwide moving abroad for a better life. I have no problem with any decent person doing the same.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » In my opinion. People who are confident in themselves and thier own culture would have no real issue with multiculturalism.
Geuze wrote: » I don't think anybody is anti all immigrants? If so, I don't agree with that. There were 85,000 immigrants last year, and I am "anti" the minority of them who are illegal immigrants.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » As for people accepting and integrating into Irish culture - argument. I always find it amusing. As the vast majority in Ireland converse in English as thier first language and are enveloped in English/British pass times/popular culture anyway!
Sand wrote: » Back to the low status/high status signalling again.
Sand wrote: » Irish people speak English these days (and not Gaelic) because of the unique historical experiences of the Irish people.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Signalling? Typical internet language? Who talks like that signalling? Would you say that guff in the pub? My point is a valid one it is the working class Irish who are most uncomfortable/fearful about multiculturalism. You know it and I know it. It is up to you to admit why. I can't make you. Using silly trendy internet buzzwords like 'signalling' does not answer the question.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Not strictly true
Sand wrote: » Its clear you place no value on Irish people. Your vision of the country appears to not be a country at all, but instead some sort of economic thunderdome where the weak deservedly perish. It's a naive view and not one Irish people would ever endorse.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Of course there is a cohort who lump all immigrants together whether they are illegal or not. They get put in the same box.
TomTomTim wrote: » Show me some posts here that reflect said sentiment. I've seen nothing of the sort here, quite the opposite actually. I personally think some immigrant groups preform well here, while others simply don't. It's usually your side that likes to deal in absolutes.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » All lives are valued, but those who make a contribution to society do better It is the way Ireland works whether you like it or not. And those who fail to thrive are saved by the Welfare State. Not naïve at all just practical and realistic.
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