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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

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I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

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biko

Zookey123 wrote: »

I would agree that integrating into the community is very important (thus the problems in the UK).

That sounds like you promote assimilation which some consider racist.
They think thousands of immigrants from another monoculture can immigrate here and continue living as per their old culture, FGM and whatnot.

Zookey123 wrote: »

Its a much more complex issue than "immigrants bad".

No one doubt this. Even anti-immigration people are not against immigration. They are against the concept of too many, too fast.
Progressives hope to shock-change society with their open border policies, and they are blind to any problems that they see arise from their political mayhem in other countries. They probably think it's won't happen here. But they are wrong and unfortunately regular people are the ones having to pay for it.

[Deleted User]

Zookey123 wrote: »

I would agree that integrating into the community is very important (thus the problems in the UK).

Not just the UK, but every country which has performed this multicultural experiment is now experiencing social problems, with no sign of them declining.

Your post mainly fixates on the barbaric laws of certain countries dictated by a certain religion (theocracy in all but name). Culture and religion are not the same thing and many people fleeing these countries are doing so for the same reasons you mentioned in the post.

I assume this is direct towards me then. You really should use the quote function. And I purposely avoided using the M.East as an example. I said Africa, which has a sizable Muslim population, and oddly enough one of the main areas, we get so many migrants from. Not a theocracy...

In any case, have you ever spent time in a Muslim nation? Because culture and religion are intertwined.. far more than Catholicism mixed with western culture in the last three hundred years. There's no comparison.. which is probably why so many people think religion and culture can't be merged.. because they can.

As for the people fleeing these countries, they're doing so due to civil war, or economic reasons... not because they believe their culture to be broken or that it's wrong to have so much religious laws/rules mixed with everyday behavior.

Sharia law is a buzz word always thrown around no one even knows what the laws are and each Muslim country seems to have its own interpretation.

Don't assume my ignorance... As someone who has posted to many of these threads, I've read a lot about it. I've also spent some time in Iran and a number of other Islamic nations, along with having spoken to Muslim colleagues. Sharia law is referred because it has so much influence over most Muslims, and does run counter to western values in most respects (not all, but most).

I do notice that you're not actually countering anything I've said, btw. You're deflecting.

Multiculturalism brings forth different thoughts and ideas (be it in food, clothing, housing). It is good to mix and learn. Yes there are downsides too since people are not homogeneous and you will get some negatives. Do the negatives outweigh the positives? I guess that would depend on the individual. Perhaps we should start looking at people as individuals instead of natives and immigrants.

And... this is my problem with the multicultural crowd. You don't want to think about what you're promoting.. I put up a relatively long post with a variety of points, and you've just dismissed it, while coming back to your original points... More nonsense about food, clothing etc... (housing? that's one I didn't expect. )

[Deleted User]

Zookey123 wrote: »

Just say theocracy is the issue. No country should be ruled under laws written in a medieval text. Any evidence on these immigrants wanting to change our laws? I assume you are talking about the UK where a very small minority campaigned for sharia law (without any real definition of the laws) and they were mainly natives not immigrants including the leadership of the movement. These issues are political and caused by the poor integration among the minority communities. Its a much more complex issue than "immigrants bad".

Did you notice the part where I said it was difficult to control what people do in their homes or in their congregations? They don't need to change our laws.. they can continue their cultural/religious traditions in the "privacy" of their own homes, protected by other members of their community who share the same faith/beliefs.

And I agree that it's a much more complex issue than "immigrants bad".. which is why this thread is still going fairly strong..

Still.... I notice you haven't provided us with anything beyond simplistic statements, yourself. So... perhaps justify immigration and multiculturalism to us.. go deeper, and argue about it with us.

Zookey123

Deleted User wrote: »

Not just the UK, but every country which has performed this multicultural experiment is now experiencing social problems, with no sign of them declining.

I assume this is direct towards me then. You really should use the quote function. And I purposely avoided using the M.East as an example. I said Africa, which has a sizable Muslim population, and oddly enough one of the main areas, we get so many migrants from. Not a theocracy...

I didn't want to quote your whole comment which I did read and agreed with a lot of what you said. I mentioned that countries with these barbaric laws were theocracies in all but name. Some of these countries have laws against homosexuality others refuse to give them rights due to religious doctrine.

Deleted User wrote: »

In any case, have you ever spent time in a Muslim nation? Because culture and religion are intertwined.. far more than Catholicism mixed with western culture in the last three hundred years. There's no comparison.. which is probably why so many people think religion and culture can't be merged.. because they can.

There can definitely be some overlap however as religion is static culture is ever changing and evolving. Two people of the same religion can have a vastly different cultural upbringing.

Deleted User wrote: »

As for the people fleeing these countries, they're doing so due to civil war, or economic reasons... not because they believe their culture to be broken or that it's wrong to have so much religious laws/rules mixed with everyday behaviour.

I didn't say people are fleeing due to a broken culture but more due to a theocratic legal system that treats minorities horribly. Civil war and famine are a huge cause of immigration. Just look at Yemen and what caused that? Millions of people will be dead over the course of the year. I doubt the immigrants fleeing a country due to two theocracies going head to head really want to establish a new one in their next home.

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't assume my ignorance... As someone who has posted to many of these threads, I've read a lot about it. I've also spent some time in Iran and a number of other Islamic nations, along with having spoken to Muslim colleagues. Sharia law is referred because it has so much influence over most Muslims, and does run counter to western values in most respects (not all, but most).

Can you define the laws then? If Muslim scholars can't agree on them I doubt a few threads on boards will enlighten you. Sharia is used as a scaremongering buzz word. And I don't assume your ignorance in fact I believe you know exactly what I mean.

Deleted User wrote: »

I do notice that you're not actually countering anything I've said, btw. You're deflecting.

Well I didn't go point to point hopefully this post changes your mind some what.

Deleted User wrote: »

And... this is my problem with the multicultural crowd. You don't want to think about what you're promoting.. I put up a relatively long post with a variety of points, and you've just dismissed it, while coming back to your original points... More nonsense about food, clothing etc... (housing? that's one I didn't expect. )

Its not really nonsense though is it? Some people would place a large value on those issues. I spent a summer in Japan and fell in love with their architecture would love a Minka or two here.

[Deleted User]

Zookey123 wrote: »

I didn't want to quote your whole comment which I did read and agreed with a lot of what you said. I mentioned that countries with these barbaric laws were theocracies in all but name. Some of these countries have laws against homosexuality others refuse to give them rights due to religious doctrine.

Sure, but most of the migrants that Europe is going to get will be coming from African nations which aren't even close to being theocracies. They're typically highly corrupt hierarchical structures with little respect for the law. The issue though is that the people themselves, will be carrying the beliefs associated with both their national/tribal culture, and the religion. I chose Islam because it's the most obvious example of opposing views to Western values, but I could have pointed to the Coptic groups, or even those with tribal/spiritual/supernatural belief systems.

You're looking at the laws or customs at a national level. I'm looking at a cultural level which relates to the behaviors of the people themselves.

There can definitely be some overlap however as religion is static culture is ever changing and evolving. Two people of the same religion can have a vastly different cultural upbringing.

Sure they can... I wouldn't suggest otherwise. However, when they form a group, you'll often find that the religious aspect of their culture combined with peer pressure will drastically change the behavior of the individual. So, while as an individual (or family unit) away from others in the west, they behave similar to westerners, they will change completely when they're watched by others of their faith. This is most common with Muslims, which is a very community driven faith, with peer pressure forcing them to conform.

I didn't say people are fleeing due to a broken culture but more due to a theocratic legal system that treats minorities horribly. Civil war and famine are a huge cause of immigration. Just look at Yemen and what caused that? Millions of people will be dead over the course of the year. I doubt the immigrants fleeing a country due to two theocracies going head to head really want to establish a new one in their next home.

Nope. I said that they were fleeing due to war, or economic reasons. I didn't claim that you said anything of the sort.

You doubt that they would want that, but typically, people tend to feel that what they do will be different or better than what others did. In any case, they'll continue to follow their own belief system because it has value due to all the people who died because of it.

Look at any thread on boards about the IRA and Republications. They'll bend over backwards to find justifications for brutal murder and torture.

Can you define the laws then? If Muslim scholars can't agree on them I doubt a few threads on boards will enlighten you. Sharia is used as a scaremongering buzz word. And I don't assume your ignorance in fact I believe you know exactly what I mean.

Scaremongering? How does that work exactly? There have been cases in the UK and elsewhere, of Sharia law being implemented by followers. It doesn't matter that there is great debate about the meanings of the passages, and that different sects will place greater importance on one passage over another.. It's still a system that will be applied by many.. and they'll still be opposite to the common values within western culture about womens rights, child rights, etc.

Well I didn't go point to point hopefully this post changes your mind some what.

Not really. You're still not saying anything about immigration and multiculturalism. You're responding to my post, for which I'm grateful... but you're not really arguing about the values of multiculturalism while also recognizing the negatives.

Its not really nonsense though is it? Some people would place a large value on those issues. I spent a summer in Japan and fell in love with their architecture would love a Minka or two here.

Ahh I see the connection. okie dokie.

Geuze

Zookey123 wrote: »

What's wrong with different cultures? Wouldn't the world be boring if everyone was the same? As long as you are a good citizen (giving back to the state) then I have nothing against it.

There is massive unemployment in Ireland and across the EU.

Other than to fill very specific occupations, and 3rd level students, there is no justification for any non-EU immigration into Ireland.

jmreire

Zookey123,
Quote:- "I didn't say people are fleeing due to a broken culture but more due to a theocratic legal system that treats minorities horribly. Civil war and famine are a huge cause of immigration. Just look at Yemen and what caused that? Millions of people will be dead over the course of the year. I doubt the immigrants fleeing a country due to two theocracies going head to head really want to establish a new one in their next home. " UnQuote!
I'm just wondering how much time have you have lived in Islamic Country's? And I mean actually lived in them, as against having holidays or other short visit's? Because I have for more years than I care to think about,,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Bosnia...there are more, (you can fit quite a lot of Countries in 20 + years, but you get the point. ) And I'll give you my take on Islam. For a practising Muslim, there is simply nothing else that matters...you can take as many Muslims as you like, and transplant them in the West ( or any other non-muslim Country. ) but to the day they Die, they will always be Muslim. And they never give up on not alone just practising their religion, but spreading it too. Do not make the mistake that Islam is "Just another Religion".....its a whole way of Life, from Birth to Death. They do not integrate, no matter how much it may seem like on the outside, and especially when they are small in Nrs., but as soon as they can make changes to make their world more "Islamic", they will make them. Muslim Families who emigrated to the West, and settled down in the west, will make sure that their kids and grand kids, will be Muslim and with the Islamic outlook on Life. They will try very hard to re-create the very same system IE Islam, ruled by Sharia law, that brought war to the Country that they are fleeing from.There has been many posters on here advocating multiculture as being beneficial, and in some cases it may be, and no doubt some will become "More Irish than the Irish themselves" but Muslims do not give up the Islamic way of life... ever ! And trust me, the Islamic way of Life is definitely not for everyone. Just ask anyone who has lived in those Countries, and see what they have to say about multiculture and integration.

Geuze

Zookey123 wrote: »

Just say theocracy is the issue. No country should be ruled under laws written in a medieval text. Any evidence on these immigrants wanting to change our laws?

Yes.

Here is what Ali Selim wants:

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/09/03/a-clash-of-values/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810

"He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.

No more raffles.

RSE curriculum to be changed.

Big changes to PE classes.

"When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

Can you imagine if I landed into Iraq or Iran and started demanding changes to their schools?

This lad is very confident, even brazen, that he suggests massive changes to music and physical education here.

What is worse is that some Irish people, soft in the head, would probably agree with him, all in the name of pandering to the idea that "Ireland = bad" and "foreign imported culture" =good.

Justin Credible Darts

why did he not demand that back in his own homeland ?

Amazes me how people leave their own country cos they dont like it
Then come here and want to make this country like the one they just left.

why not just work on your own ?

Gervais08

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

Here is what Ali Selim wants:

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/09/03/a-clash-of-values/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810

"He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.

No more raffles.

RSE curriculum to be changed.

Big changes to PE classes.

"When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

Can you imagine if I landed into Iraq or Iran and started demanding changes to their schools?

This lad is very confident, even brazen, that he suggests massive changes to music and physical education here.

What is worse is that some Irish people, soft in the head, would probably agree with him, all in the name of pandering to the idea that "Ireland = bad" and "foreign imported culture" =good.

He is a vile sexist asshat who should be sprayed with week old cat pee every time he suggests something stupid.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

why did he not demand that back in his own homeland ?

Amazes me how people leave their own country cos they dont like it
Then come here and want to make this country like the one they just left.

why not just work on your own ?

Eeh if you’re asking this question you really should look at how Islam has spread over centuries. I’ll give you a clue (it’s not peacefully)

TheCitizen

Gervais08 wrote: »

He is a vile sexist asshat who should be sprayed with week old cat pee every time he suggests something stupid.

Maybe waterboard him with it eh.

Why does anyone care, they're not going to change the way we teach music just cos some Moslem fella is ranting bout it. If his kids or his pals kids don't like it they can sit out and do something else

Gervais08

TheCitizen wrote: »

Maybe waterboard him with it eh.

Why does anyone care, they're not going to change the way we teach music just cos some Moslem fella is ranting bout it. If his kids or his pals kids don't like it they can sit out and do something else

Tell that to the U.K. and the vile anti gay and lesbian teaching protests. They caved!

jmreire

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

why did he not demand that back in his own homeland ?

Amazes me how people leave their own country cos they dont like it
Then come here and want to make this country like the one they just left.

why not just work on your own ?

Because as I explained in an earlier post, for a Muslim, Islam is literally everything, its a way of Life, ruled by the Quran, from 14'000 Years ago. And it covers evert aspect of a Muslims life, from the day they are born to the day they will die, how they think, how they act, how they behave, and last but not least, their Politics ( Islam ) So despite the fact that they leave their own Country, for whatever reason ,they take their Islam with them. Sure they will blend into the local population in most things, but they will never give up their Islam. Or at least most of them, but in fact, quite a lot do leave Islam ( as do other people in other religions) and those that do leave Islam, will pay quite a heavy price for it.

Mr. Karate

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

Here is what Ali Selim wants:

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/09/03/a-clash-of-values/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810

"He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.

No more raffles.

RSE curriculum to be changed.

Big changes to PE classes.

"When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

Can you imagine if I landed into Iraq or Iran and started demanding changes to their schools?

"**** off" should be the only response he and anyone who makes demands like this should get. You want to live like you're back home? then Go Home.

What is worse is that some Irish people, soft in the head, would probably agree with him, all in the name of pandering to the idea that "Ireland = bad" and "foreign imported culture" =good.

Definitely. The Bleeding hearts brigade with bowling over themselves to say that we should abolish our culture and way of life to accommodate him.

Acosta

I long for the day when Irish schools are a complete religion free zone. It has no place there whatsoever.

Gervais08

Acosta wrote: »

I long for the day when Irish schools are a complete religion free zone. It has no place there whatsoever.

I’m Catholic. I went to Catholic school, taught by nuns. And I 100% agree.

[Deleted User]

Gervais08 wrote: »

I’m Catholic. I went to Catholic school, taught by nuns. And I 100% agree.

I went to a Marist Brothers school, and there was very little emphasis on religion. Most of the teachers were 'brothers', and while they were obvious in their faith, they never sought to push it on us. Religious icons everywhere but again, no pushing of the faith, even when it came to mass attendance, which was optional by the students (not by parents permission).

All the same, schools should be completely absent of any religious indoctrination. We, as a society, are moving away from it's presence, except for those who wish to avail of it, within their own time (rather than it being expected for all to accept it). Students should be taught about the various religions, but from an educational pov, rather than seeking to convert anyone, with clear instruction about the negatives of religion (wars, inquisitions, narrowminded considerations towards birth control, etc)

As such, we shouldn't be tolerating the introduction of Islam or another other faith into schools.

Zookey123

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, but most of the migrants that Europe is going to get will be coming from African nations which aren't even close to being theocracies.

Hmm are you sure about that? Nigeria? Uganda? Liberia?

Deleted User wrote: »

They're typically highly corrupt hierarchical structures with little respect for the law.

Totally agree with that.

Deleted User wrote: »

The issue though is that the people themselves, will be carrying the beliefs associated with both their national/tribal culture, and the religion. I could have pointed to the Coptic groups, or even those with tribal/spiritual/supernatural belief systems.

Most of their intolerant policies are based off religion. For example homosexuality was culturally acceptable in Uganda until they were colonised by the British empire and our "superior" culture was forced down their throats and hence same sex relations were made illegal.

Deleted User wrote: »

You're looking at the laws or customs at a national level. I'm looking at a cultural level which relates to the behaviours of the people themselves.

This is dictated by the laws at a national level as explained above.

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure they can... I wouldn't suggest otherwise. However, when they form a group, you'll often find that the religious aspect of their culture combined with peer pressure will drastically change the behaviour of the individual. So, while as an individual (or family unit) away from others in the west, they behave similar to westerners, they will change completely when they're watched by others of their faith. This is most common with Muslims, which is a very community driven faith, with peer pressure forcing them to conform.

Agree to a certain extent but still need to treat at a case by case basis. People are not homogenous, and it can be very difficult to fully predict ones behaviour but of course the ambient society has an impact on ones thoughts and actions.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. I said that they were fleeing due to war, or economic reasons. I didn't claim that you said anything of the sort.

Coolio

Deleted User wrote: »

You doubt that they would want that, but typically, people tend to feel that what they do will be different or better than what others did. In any case, they'll continue to follow their own belief system because it has value due to all the people who died because of it.

This is a generalisation to be fair. This would require some empirical evidence (perhaps a poll). I don't doubt "most" people will continue to follow their religion but that's a far cry from setting up an actual theocracy.

Deleted User wrote: »

Look at any thread on boards about the IRA and Republications. They'll bend over backwards to find justifications for brutal murder and torture.

I don't doubt that one bit. In the real world you would find a different story though.

Deleted User wrote: »

Scaremongering? How does that work exactly? There have been cases in the UK and elsewhere, of Sharia law being implemented by followers. It doesn't matter that there is great debate about the meanings of the passages, and that different sects will place greater importance on one passage over another.. It's still a system that will be applied by many.. and they'll still be opposite to the common values within western culture about women's rights, child rights, etc.

It's scaremongering since it will never be accepted here, and no one is even fighting for this except for a very small minority group with no power as I mentioned before. It's just something that's brought up to ruffle the feathers of the anti immigrant crowd. Name one group with any sway in the west asking for sharia law?. We are fighting tooth and nail for LGBTQ rights and female empowerment, we will not tolerate intolerance .

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really. You're still not saying anything about immigration and multiculturalism. You're responding to my post, for which I'm grateful... but you're not really arguing about the values of multiculturalism while also recognizing the negatives.

I have recognised the negatives as well as put forward what I believe are the positives. The argument is whether the positives out way the negatives and how perhaps we can achieve an optimal solution for this issue. As you have said yourself very few people are for a blank stop on immigration or an open border policy.

4068ac1elhodqr

Acosta wrote: »

I long for the day when Irish schools are a complete religion free zone. It has no place there whatsoever.

Have you considered relocating to china's xinjiang? They've a wonderful new re-education program there, to knock (with sticks) any notion of praise for anything, other that their most glorious state leader. All hail the leader.

Zookey123

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

Can you imagine if I landed into Iraq or Iran and started demanding changes to their schools?

.

I'm sorry but this is such a stupid thing to say. So you want Ireland to be more like Iran? What is so great about the west is that we can share our thoughts and ideas without having to worry about persecution. Be glad you live in a society that allows you this freedom, and don't be envious of the intolerance of other nations just so you could shut down immigrants. For the record that guy is clearly a nut job but you will find those in the Catholic church too.

Thelonious Monk

You'll all be delighted to hear we're taking 50 refugees from the burnt down camp in Greece!

Patrick2010

Caoimhe Butterly on newstalk now getting a very soft interview. No questions as to who started the fire. Caoimhe says there are 70 million refugees on the move in the world at the moment and we need to do more.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54383173

French President Emmanuel Macron has announced plans for tougher laws to tackle what he called "Islamist separatism" and defend secular values.

In a keenly awaited speech, Mr Macron said a minority of France's estimated six million Muslims were in danger of forming a "counter-society".

His proposals include stricter oversight of schooling and control over foreign funding of mosques.

He had been under pressure to address radical Islam amid security fears.

I hear you're a far right Islamophobe now, President.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You'll all be delighted to hear we're taking 50 refugees from the burnt down camp in Greece!

Rising to 400 from what I hear. What a country.

[Deleted User]

Zookey123 wrote: »

Hmm are you sure about that? Nigeria? Uganda? Liberia?

Nope, I'm not sure of it. I'm aware of their governmental systems though. But if you have a point to make... perhaps make it, and reinforce it with some linkies for us to read? (but consider what you're responding to, since I'm getting the feeling you're heading off on an entirely different direction)

Totally agree with that.

Okay. So, do you think that these systems happen without the involvement of the people, and absent the values or cultural perspectives of the people from that nation? Throughout Africa we can see a similar attitude towards corruption, greed, violence etc at official levels, right down to street living.

Most of their intolerant policies are based off religion. For example homosexuality was culturally acceptable in Uganda until they were colonised by the British empire and our "superior" culture was forced down their throats and hence same sex relations were made illegal.

Our superior culture? I'm Irish, not British. I'm also bisexual, so.. yeah.

So, you want to pick out one example to show what exactly? That western cultural domination changed the beliefs of one cultural group? You're still missing the point as to why I referred to culture and Africa. Anyway, blaming colonialism, doesn't change what they believe now. It's not about superiority.. it's about what will be brought in that is counter to the values/beliefs within western societies.

This is dictated by the laws at a national level as explained above.

You earlier made the point that culture changes... you really think that happens on a national level? Nah. It happens among the people, and spreads over time. In any case, the Africans themselves who come to Ireland will bring their cultural beliefs with them, simply because they've been indoctrinated to believe them to be right... just as we are.

This is a generalisation to be fair. This would require some empirical evidence (perhaps a poll). I don't doubt "most" people will continue to follow their religion but that's a far cry from setting up an actual theocracy.

I don't doubt that one bit. In the real world you would find a different story though.

Because they're coming from a secure and prosperous nation, and won't likely need to fight for their future. Now, imagine people who feel they have lost everything... and what do they have left? Their culture, their religion, and the "small" community of likeminded people nearby. You really think they're going to drop all that, and embrace western values?

And you introduced the idea of a theocracy. I never once suggested that such a thing would happen here. Don't you think you're being a little... sly here?

I see little point in repeating myself until you actually deal with the primary post.. rather than introducing extras, and then running away with those extras, as if you're not arguing against yourself?

It's scaremongering since it will never be accepted here, and no one is even fighting for this except for a very small minority group with no power as I mentioned before. It's just something that's brought up to ruffle the feathers of the anti immigrant crowd. Name one group with any sway in the west asking for sharia law?. We are fighting tooth and nail for LGBTQ rights and female empowerment, we will not tolerate intolerance .

You keep deflecting, and introducing crap I didn't suggest..

I didn't say that the laws would be changed here to include sharia law. Read back. It relates to how they behave within their communities, and their own homes.

I have recognised the negatives as well as put forward what I believe are the positives. The argument is whether the positives out way the negatives and how perhaps we can achieve an optimal solution for this issue. As you have said yourself very few people are for a blank stop on immigration or an open border policy.

Sigh. Sorry... but I actually do see you deflecting/dodging from the main thrust of the topic. Sure, you're responding to my earlier post, but you're not dealing with the repeated questions put forward by Wibbs or addressed the concerns about how to financially support these migrants, or... etc etc etc.

[Deleted User]

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

Have you considered relocating to china's xinjiang? They've a wonderful new re-education program there, to knock (with sticks) any notion of praise for anything, other that their most glorious state leader. All hail the leader.

The sheer ignorance is astounding. You really want to compare Ireland with China?

Strumms

Acosta wrote: »

I long for the day when Irish schools are a complete religion free zone. It has no place there whatsoever.

I’d rather too that the time spent teaching say religion could be instead put more towards physical education.

A study, all be it in 2010, found that primary school kids spent an average of 46 minutes a week doing PE

In secondary school 60 minutes. With in addition 20 spent on changing / preparing and then changing again.

In the secondary school kids a learning for an average of 30 hours a week, the time spent on PE is way below the required.

One thirtieth of the school week on PE is poor. No point in exercising your brain if the body it inhabits isn’t been looked after.

In 5th and 6th year once every 5 weeks, our PE was in a classroom setting, ok we hated it but the teacher would discuss nutrition, overall health and wellbeing issues....

ALL of that is 10000000 times more important than a bunch of well intentioned fairy stories.

Justin Credible Darts

jmreire wrote: »

Because as I explained in an earlier post, for a Muslim, Islam is literally everything, its a way of Life, ruled by the Quran, from 14'000 Years ago. And it covers evert aspect of a Muslims life, from the day they are born to the day they will die, how they think, how they act, how they behave, and last but not least, their Politics ( Islam ) So despite the fact that they leave their own Country, for whatever reason ,they take their Islam with them. Sure they will blend into the local population in most things, but they will never give up their Islam. Or at least most of them, but in fact, quite a lot do leave Islam ( as do other people in other religions) and those that do leave Islam, will pay quite a heavy price for it.

I have no problem if the want to believe in Islam or any God.,
Personally to me anyone that believes in an invisible man is lacking something....but each to their own.

The point is I dont go to saudi arabia and dictate policy and cry if my western beliefs are not adhered to, they come here, and should abide by our ways and respect women, not treat them like dirt, etc.

where are all the so called womens groups to protect them when these people treat women like dirt ?

Beasty

TheCitizen wrote: »

Disparaging is exactly your attitude to the recent EU proposals re this issue. You’re not interested in solutions, you just want to complain and grind your axe. These are real people you’re bumping your gums about and difficult complex issues for those in authority to deal with. Your attitude is disgusting.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Wibble Wibble. Where did I say anyone had to be pro everything from an organisation to be deemed pro it overall? I was talking about the specific proposals released recently by the EU to deal with this issue which your little pal/multi whatever disparaged and found fault with.

Your tactic is to take what those who disagree with you say and twist it into something else entirely.

TheCitizen wrote: »

The irony detector has gone off the scale with this one. Accusing me of dismissal accusation and insult etc etc. That’s all your rambling above literally amounts to.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I know people like you. You’ve no interest in solutions. You don’t listen to other opinions, you’re totally self obsessed and enamoured with the sound of your own voice. Ultimately You have nothing to contribute. Wibble Wibble

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you wibbles multi. Wibble Wibble

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