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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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MJohnston

garo wrote: »

Coming into an EV charger thread and posting this:
is what gave me the idea. Interpretations may differ but I stand by mine.

Well, as the author of that post, I'm literally telling you that you have it backwards.

garo

Well if we are in agreement about the need for more fast DC chargers then nothing to disagree about.

slave1

I'll add to that post by saying more charging Hubs, be astonished if anyone disagrees with that!

MJohnston

garo wrote: »

Well if we are in agreement about the need for more fast DC chargers then nothing to disagree about.

Of course we are.

My point is merely that we shouldn't be planning where they go in order to accommodate the aforementioned kind of unsustainable usage of cars.

garo

I don't understand. Why should we not planning where we put DC chargers?Also, charging an EV using renewable electricity is about as sustainable as we can get.

Look I am all in favour of WFH. Have been doing it since March. But you have to accept if someone is travelling during the pandemic for work, their job pretty much requires travel.

liamog

Mod Note: Guys this thread is about eCars current network and expansion plans, if you want a discussion on general car usage, it's probably better for the Commuting and Transport forum, or if you want to discuss how and where to site chargers we've a few threads already.

Black_Knight

Odd one. The Nissan garage in Limerick on Ballysimon road has had its charger removed from the ESB app. Not on plugshare (not sure if it ever was), but it's marked on google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nissan+Fast+Charge+Point/@52.648341,-8.584435,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x29f992f8071fd31b!8m2!3d52.6484603!4d-8.5818451?hl=en

112 fast charge units (known to ecars) in the country now. Ionity and EasyGo would add 2 dozen or so to that.

AndyBoBandy

3,618 new BEV's registered in Ireland from January to end of September

3,021 CCS
597 Chademo

Time for eCars to rethink their plug strategy??

Theres a total of no more than 5,000 Leaf's in Ireland...

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

3,618 new BEV's registered in Ireland from January to end of September

3,021 CCS
597 Chademo

Time for eCars to rethink their plug strategy??

Theres a total of no more than 5,000 Leaf's in Ireland...

I hope not, those Leafs aren't going anywhere for a while yet.

I think ESB will probably keep at least 1 Chademo at each site, but I wouldn't be surprised if very little expansion of the Chademo network

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I hope not, those Leafs aren't going anywhere for a while yet.

I think ESB will probably keep at least 1 Chademo at each site, but I wouldn't be surprised if very little expansion of the Chademo network

I think the high powered chargers can have 2 ccs and 1 chademo cables attached to them if they wanted it.

If paired with a triple head there could be 3 ccs cars charging (for the future) or 1 ccs and 2 leafs

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

3,618 new BEV's registered in Ireland from January to end of September

3,021 CCS
597 Chademo

Time for eCars to rethink their plug strategy??

Theres a total of no more than 5,000 Leaf's in Ireland...

With 5,000 Leaf's in Ireland, eCars need to continue to provide CHAdeMO, that's way too many to just block out, EasyGo are also dual connection providing with all their new charge points.
CHAdeMO will be a long time here.
Don't forget the wonderful Outlanders PHEVs too

AndyBoBandy

I'm absolutely not saying block out the Chademo's, not for 1 second. I'm merely saying don't be installing any more of them... Every FCP site has at least 1 Chademo.

For instance, the new 'Hubs' with a 150kW & a 50kW triple head at the same site... The 150kW units should be twin CCS only (or even triple head them (twin CCS and single Chademo), and the 50kW units should remain as they are 1 CCS & 1 Chademo.

I'm just thinking if 3 CCS cars arrive at the same time (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility now that CCS cars outnumber Chademo cars) it would be awful annoying having to wait for someone to finish charging, when there's a perfectly good high power charge unit there, but just not configured to get the most out of it...

3,000 CCS cars alone in 2020 vs 5,000 total Leafs on Irish roads (CCS surely outnumbers Chademo by at least a factor of 3/4/5 to 1 at this stage. Would it not be prudent to set up the charging network at a similar ratio, as the current 50/50 model seems to penalise CCS car owners, while favouring Chademo owners...

Again, I'm saying all current Chademo units should be left as is, but new sites with multiple units, should they not be slightly favouring CCS at this stage?

Busman Paddy Lasty

Would have no issue with new charger installations being a 50:50 setup in the short term if there just more available.

Can't find it now but I saw an eCars computer graphic image of a hub with around 6 DC chargers. These looked like the ABB 150kW units with the square ope above the cables. New hubs would be grand with 6 to 12 of these, just bloody get them in! No chance of having them all used by CHAdeMO cars now that CCS sales are increasing.

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I'm absolutely not saying block out the Chademo's, not for 1 second. I'm merely saying don't be installing any more of them... Every FCP site has at least 1 Chademo.

For instance, the new 'Hubs' with a 150kW & a 50kW triple head at the same site... The 150kW units should be twin CCS only (or even triple head them (twin CCS and single Chademo), and the 50kW units should remain as they are 1 CCS & 1 Chademo.

I'm just thinking if 3 CCS cars arrive at the same time (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility now that CCS cars outnumber Chademo cars) it would be awful annoying having to wait for someone to finish charging, when there's a perfectly good high power charge unit there, but just not configured to get the most out of it...

3,000 CCS cars alone in 2020 vs 5,000 total Leafs on Irish roads (CCS surely outnumbers Chademo by at least a factor of 3/4/5 to 1 at this stage. Would it not be prudent to set up the charging network at a similar ratio, as the current 50/50 model seems to penalise CCS car owners, while favouring Chademo owners...

Again, I'm saying all current Chademo units should be left as is, but new sites with multiple units, should they not be slightly favouring CCS at this stage?

CCS is just starting to overtake chademo. I said last year that by end of this year CCS would outnumber chademo and it looks like it will.

(This is where unicorns like my car come into play. I can charge on CCS or Chademo so it doesnt affect me which plug they add!)

Black_Knight

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Would have no issue with new charger installations being a 50:50 setup in the short term if there just more available.

Can't find it now but I saw an eCars computer graphic image of a hub with around 6 DC chargers. These looked like the ABB 150kW units with the square ope above the cables. New hubs would be grand with 6 to 12 of these, just bloody get them in! No chance of having them all used by CHAdeMO cars now that CCS sales are increasing.

You'd hope they're smart about this when it comes to actually installing these hubs. If it were 6 DC dual head units, if 3 of those 12 heads were chademo i'd say that'd be sufficient, assuming Nissan is dropping Chademo entirely (ie. newer leafs will be CCS?)

Busman Paddy Lasty

Black_Knight wrote: »

You'd hope they're smart about this when it comes to actually installing these hubs. If it were 6 DC dual head units, if 3 of those 12 heads were chademo i'd say that'd be sufficient, assuming Nissan is dropping Chademo entirely (ie. newer leafs will be CCS?)

I do hope yes they'd be smart about. Hoping for a 12 x 150kW hub probably belongs in an EV Hub Dreamer thread though.

ELM327

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

I do hope yes they'd be smart about. Hoping for a 12 x 150kW hub probably belongs in an EV Hub Dreamer thread though.

Or a Tesla thread.
There's already sites with 3X that in Europe.

Busman Paddy Lasty

ELM327 wrote: »

Or a Tesla thread.
There's already sites with 3X that in Europe.

#1 reason I want a Model 3. Road trips must so enjoyable using their network but there's nothing for the proles right now.

slave1

ELM327 wrote: »

Or a Tesla thread.
There's already sites with 3X that in Europe.

I posted it a good few pages back but even 36 stalls is low for Tesla, they were installing 50+stalls back in 2018.
I'd take 10 X 6 stalls for all of Ireland, would be plenty if in the right places

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

CCS is just starting to overtake chademo. I said last year that by end of this year CCS would outnumber chademo and it looks like it will.

Looks like I'm going to lose the bet

Not that I didn't think CCS would win eventually (I want it to be a legally enforced standard in EU cars actually) but I didn't think it would as fast.

slave1

Well all the Tesla S/X’s should be CCS and CHAdeMo as they are compatible with both standards

Kramer

From the new charge point thread:

Black_Knight wrote: »

To be fair, their belting out those 22kW units fairly quickly now. Pity they do little for much of the EV going population (too pricey for those without home charging, too slow for longer drives)

12 new AC units in the last month.

Remember, we are paying for these through taxation & from commercial charges.

ESB/eCars are supplying, installing & maintaining these. Tesco just have to supply a few parking spaces & reap the kudos for being green.

We are 100% paying for charge points 99% of us will likely never use, unlike intercity/motorway hubs, which 99%+ of EV drivers would sometimes/often use.

Approaching 2021 & another €10 million pumped in, along with charges now - not one single hub nor even a hint of one :rolleyes:.

McGiver

Kramer wrote:

Approaching 2021 & another â‚¬10 million pumped in, along with charges now - not one single hub nor even a hint of one .

WTF is the IEVOA doing? Should be on their neck. Keep sending them letters / emails scrutinising. That's the only effective method.

AndyBoBandy

The only EV drivers the Tesco ones will come close to helping are those that don’t have any home charging options available to them.

So in that case wouldn’t Tesco have been an ideal location for a 50kW triple head DC charger......

innrain

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The only EV drivers the Tesco ones will come close to helping are those that don’t have any home charging options available to them.

So in that case wouldn’t Tesco have been an ideal location for a 50kW triple head DC charger......

You're opening a can of worms here. It was debated in the AC vs DC thread which spun from this one and the same idea you just posted.

Black_Knight

I guess my point which I completely failed to get across was that once they have the sites, they're quick to get stuff installed. I imagine getting planning to install units (or getting sufficient power to a station) is their bottleneck.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Approaching 2021 & another €10 million pumped in, along with charges now - not one single hub nor even a hint of one :rolleyes:.

Didn't you hear, the places that can charge two CCS cars at once are now deemed a hub by eCars. Personally I'd call it a bare minimum!

Black_Knight

liamog wrote: »

Didn't you hear, the places that can charge two CCS cars at once are now deemed a hub by eCars. Personally I'd call it a bare minimum!

Confirmed.

IEVOA Survey results and subsequent minutes from a meet with Esb ecars:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tiwB3uVWFvuExDDUvmrLPO3VjnwKw5nhE0Hn1ZY2LZ0/edit

New 2 charger hub under construction at Kells (M3) to open shortly
Development of multi-charger hub site at M7 J14 to commence shortly and complete early 2021
AC to DC upgrades due to be completed soon at 7 west coast locations. More to be announced soon.
Software upgrade under assessment to allow better DC/AC load balancing at these new chargers.
Upcoming announcements on new hub sites and High Power Charging pricing expected soon.

- So 2 charge points is a hub.
- J14 Mayfield to get a "hub" (2 units) in early 2021. Though it says construction to begin shortly. Last I remember Mayfield has a bay for a 2nd unit already. Hopefully they're pulling their finger out and actually putting in a real hub.
- The west is getting some AC units changed to DC "soon" (Galway City, Clifden,
Kenmare, Tralee, Westport, Ballina)
- Better DC/AC load balancing... not use what units that's for? The "new" 44kW units only provide up to 6kW AC so 1) who would use it 2) it's not much to balance unless they' can bump up the AC output. If that hampers the DC output then that's a very slow 2 car charger for 2020.
- Announcements about hubs and pricing... Sure, ESB Ecars are great at announcing stuff, just not able to deliver it, except the pricing, which most agreed in the survey was too high for AC.

AndyBoBandy

I'd hazard a guess they will price the "High Power" units closer to Ionity prices than to their existing DC fast chargers... I'm guessing around €0.60 per kW, and maybe ~€0.50 with a subscription.

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess they will price the "High Power" units closer to Ionity prices than to their existing DC fast chargers... I'm guessing around €0.60 per kW, and maybe ~€0.50 with a subscription.

Hard to justify it. Ionity are 350kW units (software limited to 175kW), but they are not load balanced. Esb could easily be giving you 75kW max because the unit it load balanced, yet asking for premium pricing.