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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

A noise activated barrier. Anything coming in rattling and clattering and a post comes out of the ground blocking the way. Nice quiet EVs will whisper over it.

Kinda like something thats "Silent Running"!

the_amazing_raisin

Silent Running wrote: »

A noise activated barrier. Anything coming in rattling and clattering and a post comes out of the ground blocking the way. Nice quiet EVs will whisper over it.

Nah, a Prius would be able to get past it

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

As soon as reported ICE’d, immediate tow away/lifted, and a fee of €150 to release the car...

You're correct, but no one will ever enforce that unfortunately

Separated parking areas is probably the best way to go, you either use a charge card or an intercom to open a barrier, and the operator can tell the ICE vehicles to park somewhere else

kanuseeme

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You're correct, but no one will ever enforce that unfortunately

Separated parking areas is probably the best way to go, you either use a charge card or an intercom to open a barrier, and the operator can tell the ICE vehicles to park somewhere else

Nah that's going to be an extra expense and another thing that can break down, clamp or towing only options.

Most people see an empty space and go for it, then when they see the charger they are already committed to it and will say "only a few minutes" others will not give a crap.

Anyway there is always a few who will plug in just for the handiness of the parking spot

:D:D

zg3409

I won't put this in the new charger threed as the site is not open yet, but in kells there is a new "motorway" service station and 1 x 150kW and 1 x 50kW has been installed. They are still installing paving and restaurant with 100 parking spaces is not yet open but might open during October so nearly there. Add that to the 44kW also already in kells, means kells has 3 44kW+ chargers all really code by each other, plus a few backup AC chargers. Photos and location on plugshare spp. Service station is called "Park Ri". Its very close to main Dublin Donegal south Enniskillen route so looks like good mid point for such trips.

At the other end of this route in Donegal south Laghy is planned to have a 150kW so hopefully this will be a great option on this route I regularly travel.

Black_Knight

zg3409 wrote: »

I won't put this in the new charger threed as the site is not open yet, but in kells there is a new "motorway" service station and 1 x 150kW and 1 x 50kW has been installed. They are still installing paving and restaurant with 100 parking spaces is not yet open but might open during October so nearly there. Add that to the 44kW also already in kells, means kells has 3 44kW+ chargers all really code by each other, plus a few backup AC chargers. Photos and location on plugshare spp. Service station is called "Park Ri". Its very close to main Dublin Donegal south Enniskillen route so looks like good mid point for such trips.

At the other end of this route in Donegal south Laghy is planned to have a 150kW so hopefully this will be a great option on this route I regularly travel.

Great they put in 2 for redundancy, but what's ESBs plan with these? Are these the start of a hub, or are they just installing a 150 + 50 at each charge point now? I mean is 150 + 50 the new norm for them? Does that mean Kilcullen, portlaoise and Galway plaza are not going to be hubs, and thus won't be filled out with more units? Or do ESB count 2 units as a hub and thus can get the headlines they desperately need?

Black_Knight

Weird surface layout. Maybe it's the perspective of the camera, but it looks like they're really shallow parking spaces. Nice and awkward to, putting them in the corner so some folks will have to reverse all the ways into that "cul de sac" to use the high power unit. The EV parking spots have been pronounced forward to compensate for the space the units take up, but that just makes the road section narrower. A section which cars will be maneuvering in to get positioned correctly to charge.

[Deleted User]

And still ignoring the M9 after Kilcullen. Joke.....

[Deleted User]

Black_Knight wrote: »

Great they put in 2 for redundancy, but what's ESBs plan with these? Are these the start of a hub, or are they just installing a 150 + 50 at each charge point now? I mean is 150 + 50 the new norm for them? Does that mean Kilcullen, portlaoise and Galway plaza are not going to be hubs, and thus won't be filled out with more units? Or do ESB count 2 units as a hub and thus can get the headlines they desperately need?

I can't see hubs from the ESB for years, typical semi state company dragging their heals.

They shouldn't, in my opinion, be installing any 50 kw charge points at Motorway service stations, it's a joke.

No plans for any other company as far as I'm aware to install new chargers either so looks like we're at the mercy of the ESB what a huge mistake allowing them to take control of the Network.

liamog

At least it looks like for this "hub" that they've installed the chargers far enough apart for 4 cars to charge at the same time.

ei9go

I think there is no business model installing these hubs and that only for eCars they just wouldn't exist at all.

New cars now have such big batteries that they mostly can avoid public charging altogether. My eCars bill hasn't exceeded 5 euro per month and I have done over 10,000 kms since getting the ZE50 on the 1st May.

Recently drove from Bangor Northern Ireland ( 360 km to home). Left fully charged, 40 mins in Decathlon and then home with 20% remaining.

The M9 is only 120 km long. There is no revenue case putting in more FCP's and there is no point putting in lots of chargers for legacy 20 kW cars.

Having said that one at Circle K at the N80 junction is probably the optimum place for an FCP.

zg3409

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You're correct, but no one will ever enforce that unfortunately

Separated parking areas is probably the best way to go, you either use a charge card or an intercom to open a barrier, and the operator can tell the ICE vehicles to park somewhere else

Japan had individual parking spot folding pole that were activated by the app. Such a thing would work great in multistorey car parks. A lifting barrier can be quite reliable and they are easily bypassed in case of fault by removing plastic horizontal stick or using bypass key and moving into open position. Ionity cashel really needs this. Better planning for parking spaces, putting then out of the way on the exit road at motorway services. Some motorway services have separate staff parking areas, so easily put in, in design phase. They could at least start with a no parking tow away in operation sign with a contact number for towing company. This is easily done in private car parks, with a deal with nearby toe truck. Just make sure they disconnect the 150kW cable from that full leaf first...

Spaces close to building are great and all, but not when they will be blocked. Spaces far away at end of one way system solve the problem mostly like at Coynes Cross motorway services.

markpb

ei9go wrote: »

New cars now have such big batteries that they mostly can avoid public charging altogether. My eCars bill hasn't exceeded 5 euro per month and I have done over 10,000 kms since getting the ZE50 on the 1st May.

Recently drove from Bangor Northern Ireland ( 360 km to home). Left fully charged, 40 mins in Decathlon and then home with 20% remaining.

It's entirely possible that other people have needs (or cars) that aren't the same as yours.

Pre-covid in my old ICE car, I used to drive from Dublin to various places around Ireland for one-day meetings for work. Generally there's no destination charging at those places nor 22kW charging nearby (within walking distance). If the weather is poor or it's cold, I wouldn't always have enough range to get there and back on a single charge in my EV.

If you're going to Decathlon that has charging, that's great but it doesn't mean it's suitable for everyone. What would you have done if the charge points at Decathlon were full or not working?

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

It's entirely possible that other people have needs (or cars) that aren't the same as yours.

Pre-covid in my old ICE car, I used to drive from Dublin to various places around Ireland for one-day meetings for work.

I think a big question that's arisen recently, and will continue to get louder, is whether we really want to be enabling that kind of work style.

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Great they put in 2 for redundancy, but what's ESBs plan with these? Are these the start of a hub, or are they just installing a 150 + 50 at each charge point now? I mean is 150 + 50 the new norm for them? Does that mean Kilcullen, portlaoise and Galway plaza are not going to be hubs, and thus won't be filled out with more units? Or do ESB count 2 units as a hub and thus can get the headlines they desperately need?

It seems they do...

Progress to date

Over 50 x 3-8 vehicle charging hubs

A number of charging hubs have already been deployed and can be found - between junction 2 and 3, Kilcullen, Co Kildare (M9), - Galway Plaza, Junction 6, Kiltullagh, Co Galway (M6) and - Portlaoise Plaza, junction 17, Portlaoise (M7/8). The charging configuration at these locations are 1x50kW and 1x150kW and capable of charging up to 3 vehicles simultaneously.

So anything from 3-8 cars charging simultaneously is a hub in eCars mind. And we already have over 50 of them apparently.

Just wondering what current eCars sites can charge 8 cars at once*? (I'm guessing this is 4 Twin AC22's in a carpark or something (airport maybe?))

*or are they just counting Ionity & Superchargers in their numbers??

slave1

ei9go wrote: »

I think there is no business model installing these hubs and that only for eCars they just wouldn't exist at all...

Tesla and Ionity disagree

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It seems they do...

So anything from 3-8 cars charging simultaneously is a hub in eCars mind. And we already have over 50 of them apparently.

Just wondering what current eCars sites can charge 8 cars at once*? (I'm guessing this is 4 Twin AC22's in a carpark or something (airport maybe?))

*or are they just counting Ionity & Superchargers in their numbers??

Most I have observed is 6 at the Athlone Triple Head Fast charger which is next to two twin 22 charge points

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

I think a big question that's arisen recently, and will continue to get louder, is whether we really want to be enabling that kind of work style.

That's a different discussion entirely.

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

Tesla and Ionity disagree

I know it's been discussed before, but Tesla and Ionity are not commercial charging operators.
They are both manufacturer funded networks to remove charging anxiety as a blocker to EV sales. They may eventually make money from charging services, but it's not their primary reason for business in the same way as FastNed.

The only purely commercial network we have in Ireland is EasyGo, and they don't seem to be able to expand in a commercially viable way yet.

slave1

Fair point, in years to come Tesla will have their Network as justifiable stand alone Revenue stream though as the free supercharging cars attrition off

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

That's a different discussion entirely.

Well it's not really, in the context of where we position our charging infrastructure.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

Well it's not really, in the context of where we position our charging infrastructure.

What if I replace the words "for work" with "to visit family", "to do X sporting activity" in my earlier post? There are plenty of reasons why people might want to take trips in Ireland beyond the range of their EV and FCP/HPCPs facilitate that. If you want to talk about remote working, I'm sure there's a thread elsewhere for that.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

What if I replace the words "for work" with "to visit family", "to do X sporting activity" in my earlier post? There are plenty of reasons why people might want to take trips in Ireland beyond the range of their EV and FCP/HPCPs facilitate that. If you want to talk about remote working, I'm sure there's a thread elsewhere for that.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous here — the pattern with which we use our cars is absolutely important to how we build out the charging network.

A day trip to visit family is very different in charging needs from a day spent driving around to various meetings, for example.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

A day trip to visit family is very different in charging needs from a day spent driving around to various meetings, for example.

How?

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

How?

Off the top of the head:
1. Almost certainly guaranteed access to granny charging with the family trip
2. More likely to have only 2 separate car trips with the family trip
3. Less urgency to travel with the family trip
4. Majority of meetings can be conducted without car travel

garo

I think that fast car chargers or the lack thereof are really REALLY far down the list of things that decide our future mode of working.
Nobody will think of super-fast DC chargers when deciding whether to enable work that requires a lot of travel. You are barking up the wrong tree.

MJohnston

garo wrote: »

I think that fast car chargers or the lack thereof are really REALLY far down the list of things that decide our future mode of working.
Nobody will think of super-fast DC chargers when deciding whether to enable work that requires a lot of travel. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm saying these things in that particular order. You've gotten it all backwards.

graememk

MJohnston wrote: »

Off the top of the head:
1. Almost certainly guaranteed access to granny charging with the family trip
l

I dont know about other people but if im visiting family or going on a weekend away I dont want to be scabbing a charge with a granny lead,

Far rather, pull in either on the way or home for a quick 15-20 min charge and be on my way.

Or if we wanted to go to dublin for the weekend, the car should make it there but wont make it the whole way back.

From north donegal, we would ususally go via belfast now, It is longer, but the time difference isnt much and a much nicer drive.

there then is the options of Castlebellingham, Lusk, Ionity in city north, (which is expensive but 4 stands is a big bonus.)

A destination charge would be perfect, but even parking for the weekend is pricey enough!

The more hubs the better on the more travelled routes and with more and more cars on they will get more congested

garo

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm saying these things in that particular order. You've gotten it all backwards.

Coming into an EV charger thread and posting this:

Originally Posted by markpb
It's entirely possible that other people have needs (or cars) that aren't the same as yours.

Pre-covid in my old ICE car, I used to drive from Dublin to various places around Ireland for one-day meetings for work.

I think a big question that's arisen recently, and will continue to get louder, is whether we really want to be enabling that kind of work style.

is what gave me the idea. Interpretations may differ but I stand by mine.

[Deleted User]

ei9go wrote: »

New cars now have such big batteries that they mostly can avoid public charging altogether. My eCars bill hasn't exceeded 5 euro per month and I have done over 10,000 kms since getting the ZE50 on the 1st May.

I think you're dead wrong there, you're missing the fact that there are many People with no home charging and blocked by management companies, land lords etc from installing charge points with no form of legislation in the works to make charging a legal right, these people will depend entirely on the public network but will probably be the least likely to change to EV, but they will at the last minute.

More and more EV owners on the streets means more demand on the network as people take holidays and need somewhere to charge.