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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

magicbastarder

As the previous thread has gone over the 10k mark

old thread can be found here

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Thelonious Monk

breezy1985 wrote: »

Some of it is due to a massive increase in car ownership for instance my estate in 30 yes has gone from less that 1 car per house to about 2 per house and seeing cars at the school gate was very rare in the early 90s ( this is just me judging by eye not stats).

But we have also ( I hate all the terms I am about to use) been sucked into the "culture wars" and despite any of our personal politics are all targeted as "woke lefty liberals" who all vote green. And if you think we have it bad youde want to see some of the things they say and threaten to do to Greta Thornburg who is just a child at the end of the day.

Similar to what the poster was saying about how you used to cycle to work but are now seen as a "cyclist" with an agenda I have heard a fair few interviews with long term foreigners in Ireland who say they experience much more racism now than in the 80s 90s as it has been so heavily politicised

It's funny yeah, on Twitter the anti cyclists are often anti-mask, anti-immigration, anti-greens etc. Maybe they're just anti-everything.

magicbastarder

FG minister. from limerick, IIRC. who tried to get the OPW to take the blame for the decision (the mail trail was made public where he was trying to get them to change them mentioning they'd done it on foot of his decision).

JMcL

magicbastarder wrote: »

i suspect it's got something to do with the fact that the department of transport has zero say over the running of the park.

It's the OPW - which has some FF/FG (forget which) junior minister who demanded because - and I kid you not here, this is a quote I read at the time - people commuting from Longford needed to get to the city centre as well. Either Longford commuters like taking the scenic route or somebody needs a bit of revision on the national road network

magicbastarder

someone declared a war against cyclists and neglected to inform them.

Oymyakon

breezy1985 wrote: »

But we have also ( I hate all the terms I am about to use) been sucked into the "culture wars" and despite any of our personal politics are all targeted as "woke lefty liberals" who all vote green. And if you think we have it bad youde want to see some of the things they say and threaten to do to Greta Thornburg who is just a child at the end of the day.

Good point about 'culture wars'. We are at a point in time were people are incredibly polarized over a wide variety of things. Social Media possibly to blame as there doesn't seem to be much middle ground anymore when it comes to anything.

breezy1985

Oymyakon wrote: »

I'd be interest to know this. Could be to do with increased motor traffic in cities, the congestion leading to frustrated commuters looking for a scapegoat.

Another thing is people seem to be offended by some cyclists wearing cycling kit (the cheek of them), making it seem like an elitist hobby rather than just an efficient way to get from A to B?

Some of it is due to a massive increase in car ownership for instance my estate in 30 yes has gone from less that 1 car per house to about 2 per house and seeing cars at the school gate was very rare in the early 90s ( this is just me judging by eye not stats).

But we have also ( I hate all the terms I am about to use) been sucked into the "culture wars" and despite any of our personal politics are all targeted as "woke lefty liberals" who all vote green. And if you think we have it bad youde want to see some of the things they say and threaten to do to Greta Thornburg who is just a child at the end of the day.

Similar to what the poster was saying about how you used to cycle to work but are now seen as a "cyclist" with an agenda I have heard a fair few interviews with long term foreigners in Ireland who say they experience much more racism now than in the 80s 90s as it has been so heavily politicised

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

O'Toole isn't a repeat offender, as far as I can see.

yeah, when people refer to his anti-cycling bias, that's the only article i can see which is ever cited.
he doesn't drive, FWIW, so if any bias does exist, it's not based on that.

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Starting with the fact that the very first thing that happens the week a Green Party is part of a new government is that the Phoenix Park is opened up to Cars, and they act as if its nothing to with them even though Eamonn Ryan is minister for transport.

i suspect it's got something to do with the fact that the department of transport has zero say over the running of the park.

tomasrojo

O'Toole isn't a repeat offender, as far as I can see. That article really was awful though. Not just the sentiments but how hackneyed it was. I remember Grace Dent, who is a pretty good columnist, writing a similar block of boilerplate a few years ago in the UK. I don't know what comes over relatively sane people sometimes. I mean, even if you have hateful opinions or dislikes whose intensity is out of all proportion to any possible offence, do the hard work and come up with some new invective.

Thelonious Monk

I think it's down to more traffic lights, more traffic, and people just becoming more entitled for some reason that's led to the hatred of cyclists. Seeing someone cycling between cars or through a pedestrian crossing is something that they can vent their frustrations on. It's almost like some kind of shared psychosis among the populace.

Macy0161

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's a point I hadn't considered: Irish radio has lost a lot of its captive audience during this pandemic.

Matt Cooper/ The Last Word has been very obviously bias to my ears. Even when he did a piece about the benefits, he ultimately turned it into how remote working/ rural hubs wouldn't work because of broadband infrastructure. To a guy successfully running such a hub since pre-pandemic in a rural location!

Macy0161

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ryan 'I'm not anti cyclist but' Tubridy is a bit of an outlier in this regard.

In birth age maybe...

Oymyakon

swarlb wrote: »

I was born in the 50's... God be with the days when no one gave a damn about cyclists, they just 'cycled', either to work and back, or if they raced, went for spins up the Dublin or Wicklow mountains or whatever hill was nearby, and no one batted an eyelid.
Somewhere along the way the whole scene got muddled and cyclists somehow became 'the hated ones'.... I often wonder where this hatred came from, and who caused it....

I'd be interest to know this. Could be to do with increased motor traffic in cities, the congestion leading to frustrated commuters looking for a scapegoat.

Another thing is people seem to be offended by some cyclists wearing cycling kit (the cheek of them), making it seem like an elitist hobby rather than just an efficient way to get from A to B?

swarlb

Tombo2001 wrote: »

An important thing to remember here is the age profile of many of these guys (and its usually guys)......Mannix Flynn, Ivan Yates, Pat Kenny, Fintan O'Toole, Finian McGrath were all born in the 1950s......

Ryan 'I'm not anti cyclist but' Tubridy is a bit of an outlier in this regard.

I was born in the 50's... God be with the days when no one gave a damn about cyclists, they just 'cycled', either to work and back, or if they raced, went for spins up the Dublin or Wicklow mountains or whatever hill was nearby, and no one batted an eyelid.
Somewhere along the way the whole scene got muddled and cyclists somehow became 'the hated ones'.... I often wonder where this hatred came from, and who caused it....

breezy1985

Well that sucked to read.
What absolute tripe and ide love to see this perfectly fine cycle lane that the cyclists are avoiding because why would anyone avoid it to cycle on the path? Sounds like bull to me probably had some scoby kids pass once and now its all of us forever as usual

Seth Brundle

breezy1985 wrote: »

Is Fintan O'Toole anti cyclist? If so I'm really disappointed as I usually find him to be pretty decent

Not sure...

Here is my contribution to National Bike Week, which starts on Saturday: cyclists are the spawn of the devil. This statement may contain the tiniest tincture of unfair generalisation. But given the widespread tendency to mistake a cycling helmet for a halo, it needs to be said that not all of Hell’s angels ride Harleys. Cyclists like to see themselves as the great oppressed minority of the streets. The truth that dare not speak its name is that the worst oppression is inflicted on the defenceless pedestrian and that two-wheeled yobs do most of the oppressing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/cycling-is-a-good-thing-and-boy-do-cyclists-know-it-1.1423498

Stark

breezy1985 wrote: »

Is Fintan O'Toole anti cyclist? If so I'm really disappointed as I usually find him to be pretty decent

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/cycling-is-a-good-thing-and-boy-do-cyclists-know-it-1.1423498

A W.B. Yeats quote thrown in there to give it an air of prestige and distinguish it from the commoners' anti-cycling rants. There's a guy who loves the smell of his own farts if ever there was one.

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

An important thing to remember here is the age profile of many of these guys (and its usually guys)......Mannix Flynn, Ivan Yates, Pat Kenny, Fintan O'Toole, Finian McGrath were all born in the 1950s......

Ryan 'I'm not anti cyclist but' Tubridy is a bit of an outlier in this regard.

Is Fintan O'Toole anti cyclist? If so I'm really disappointed as I usually find him to be pretty decent

Tombo2001

An important thing to remember here is the age profile of many of these guys (and its usually guys)......Mannix Flynn, Ivan Yates, Pat Kenny, Fintan O'Toole, Finian McGrath were all born in the 1950s......

Ryan 'I'm not anti cyclist but' Tubridy is a bit of an outlier in this regard.

Tombo2001

Oymyakon wrote: »

I'm more disappointed that Ciaran Cuffe didn't shut him down at the mention of "road tax". Sure if we all cycled we couldn't afford to build roads isn't that right Pat?

Thats the thing -why does Ciaran Cuffe engage with this guy, it seems odd to me.

Pat Kenny has no interest in cyclists, he has no interest in pedestrians - he is using Ciaran Cuffe as an opportunity to sneer at a so called Green agenda, which actually is just people trying to get around the city safely.

I'll be honest here, as someone who cycles and walks and rarely drives, I should be core voter number 1 for the Greens but they do so much to annoy me......

Starting with the fact that the very first thing that happens the week a Green Party is part of a new government is that the Phoenix Park is opened up to Cars, and they act as if its nothing to with them even though Eamonn Ryan is minister for transport.

tomasrojo

Mannix Flynn is similarly obsessed.

Tombo2001

breezy1985 wrote: »

There is also the 3rd more insidious bicycle hater who is linking it to other as they call it "lefty snowflake politics" and some I have encountered don't even drive they just see us in with the vegans and the trans people in some stupid culture war.

I noticed when Mannix Flynn was giving out about the rave held in Oliver Bond flats last week, he managed somehow to link it to getting a dig in against cyclists.

Just seems like cyclists are an acceptable bogey man for a particular section of the public, and by extension for that part of the media and political establishment who want to appeal to that group.

tomasrojo

On the efficiencies of light rail vs private motorcar, this argument was settled when Pat was a baby before Pat was born. Here's an ad from 1945 illustrating the efficiencies of space:

From here:
https://ggwash.org/view/34681/a-streetcar-is-more-space-efficient-than-individual-cars-and-we-knew-it-70-years-ago

That also has the famous triptych comparing pedestrians/cars/buses

tomasrojo

That's a point I hadn't considered: Irish radio has lost a lot of its captive audience during this pandemic.

Macy0161

Pulled the plug when he was arguing that luas was less efficient use of road space than cars.

I've come to expect that these shows are driven(?) by advertising, and that is based around a listenership primarily of people sat in cars. When I was in the Office, and going to face to face meetings, Newstalk seemed to be the standard option when I was forced to get a taxi. Similarly, Matt Cooper/ The Last Word has been consistently negative about remote working, nearly every day I've heard it some story basically dissing it as a long term option (either for people/ companies/ city centre's*). It's nearly like he wants people stuck in their cars for hours in the evening, where most people listen to the radio....

*it presents some challenges, but it has been overwhelming positive for people who had long commutes and rural communities from where they were commuting from. The discussion should be around how we make this sustainable for people and companies, how we adapt city centres away from offices and back into places people live to provide the footfall for the coffee shops/ restaurants etc.

Thelonious Monk

bazermc wrote: »

I’m trying hard to remember when there wasn’t a Pat Kenny show when he wasn’t banging on about bike lanes.

He really seems to hate anything that inconveniences cars. I wonder what his solutions are? I think he just wants free for all access to everywhere for cars until we have a transport system like Munich or Paris.

Oymyakon

I'm more disappointed that Ciaran Cuffe didn't shut him down at the mention of "road tax". Sure if we all cycled we couldn't afford to build roads isn't that right Pat?

bazermc

I’m trying hard to remember when there wasn’t a Pat Kenny show when he wasn’t banging on about bike lanes.

The J Stands for Jay

magicbastarder wrote: »

y'wha?

Something something range rover something something Ranelagh something something nipping into the newsagents, back in 2 minutes

Thelonious Monk

I had to turn it off. Jesus I never hated Pat Kenny but since I started hearing him talking about cycling and pedestrianisation I really feel like I'd probably lose my sh*t at him if I saw him in real life...
Absolute f*cking gobsh*te.