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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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namloc1980

WFH a few days a week and a few days in the office is the ideal scenario in my view. My company is actively reducing office space in Cork and Dublin to a c.50% capacity level and they've already said that essentially once we get back to a post-Covid world it'll be 2-3 days at home and 2-3 days in the office for everyone each week. Massive savings in rent and utilities while still having the benefit of people in the office as needed.

Employers that insist on having people in the office every day will lose people who will want more flexibility.

GavRedKing

Our company has been WFH for the last 6 months or so, circa 250 people. Personally, theres a few distractions but nothing major IMO.

I'd have no issues going back to the office tomorrow either but there doesn't seem to be anything happening to quickly.

We've another office in Dublin in a similar situation and with the stricter measures returning to Dublin recently I think we'll be WFH in some capacity for another few months.

We were sounded out for a return to work with about 25% capacity, social distancing, PPE, the whole lot and I said I'd have no issues with it anyway.

Mav11

namloc1980 wrote: »

WFH a few days a week and a few days in the office is the ideal scenario in my view. My company is actively reducing office space in Cork and Dublin to a c.50% capacity level and they've already said that essentially once we get back to a post-Covid world it'll be 2-3 days at home and 2-3 days in the office for everyone each week. Massive savings in rent and utilities while still having the benefit of people in the office as needed.

Employers that insist on having people in the office every day will lose people who will want more flexibility.

Current developments along the quays and elsewhere, are based on a pre covid view of the working environment and planning for an ever increasing demand for office space.

I think and I may be wrong, that the 50% capacity level quoted above might be a truer reflection of the future. Why, because everybody (employees and companies) want it. Developers and local businesses won't be too thrilled about it.

So the question is, are we going to be left with large unfinished or unoccupied ultra modern office buildings in Cork and other cities, or can they be repurposed for say, housing if the need arises?

fonecrusher1

RINO87 wrote: »

Unpopular opinion I know but WFH is driving me nuts...my home is just not cut out for it I work in tech and not having a separation between work and home is not ideal.

I'm not the only one feeling like this, office space is not going to go away - having a dedicated desk, maybe.

Its not an unpopular opinion.

Its what a lot of people are thinking including me. Its only natural to enjoy an element of separation from domestic duties / family / kids whatever. I know when my employers office reopens for business i'll be more than happy to go back. WFH is great for a while but there's always some sort of distraction at home and to be honest as much as I hate the Monday morning crawl to work it makes the Friday feeling all the sweeter.

Back on topic: To those almost hoping the pandemic will put an end to these horrifying and monstrous new buildings things are not always going to be like this. It will pass through a vaccine or just living with the bloody thing but these offices will reach full occupancy in the near future.

BUNK1982

Shedite27 wrote: »

The bigger issue will be longer to develop. How do you manage a Graduate intake when everyone's working remotely. The coaching, training and showing people by doing is very hard to replicate remotely.

I also suspect there will be studies done as to the promotion opportunities from WFH, it's a lot harder to break down barriers and get to know people when you're only on Zoom calls.

I've made this same point over the last few weeks as well - WFH is fine if you are experienced and settled in your role/ company but it must be very hard for anyone starting in a new job or a grad. We're social animals and learn a lot by osmosis.

WFH will be here to stay and it will suit a lot of people but there will always be a demand for offices. Personally I think it will be different in that you'll see a lot more hot-desking and flexible arrangements which will be a positive overall.

namloc1980

On my side I'd be happy if I never had to go back to the office. I hate commuting and sitting in a car/on public transport losing hours per week traveling - there's nothing positive in that from my point of view. My team are the same - out of 20 people maybe 2 are hoping to go back to the office, the rest are happy with WFH longer term.

bingo9999

Shedite27 wrote: »

I get a feeling this WFH model was great for a few months but people are slowly getting itchy feet to move away from it. I know in my world, people are dying to get back to having people to go for coffee breaks, lunch, Friday pints etc with, so once they become an option again, people will be keen to get back a few days a week.

The bigger issue will be longer to develop. How do you manage a Graduate intake when everyone's working remotely. The coaching, training and showing people by doing is very hard to replicate remotely.

I also suspect there will be studies done as to the promotion opportunities from WFH, it's a lot harder to break down barriers and get to know people when you're only on Zoom calls.

Yeah I think thats right, people on my team are quite mixed about it. Personally Ive never been happier working from home, whatever that says about me or my job I dont know, but I see no need to spent around 3 hours of my day that isnt my job getting up and ready and getting there and back, so I can send emails next to someone else. I'll happily split the benefit with them in working hours, which in my job I was expected to do anyway, but the flex was only ever one way.
Others are dying to be back and were in as soon as the pilot schemes were opened up again - so I think hybrid hopefully allows for different work styles.

I am sure in all that its the higher ups who tend to love being in the office, so I am sure the day will come that they say to get back in or explain why we cant, and would think thats a shame. In the medium term it will be a point of differentiation, I would take a lower salary for flex with all that saves me in petrol, parking lunches, suits and laundry.

WoolyJumper

bingo9999 wrote: »

Yeah I think thats right, people on my team are quite mixed about it. Personally Ive never been happier working from home, whatever that says about me or my job I dont know, but I see no need to spent around 3 hours of my day that isnt my job getting up and ready and getting there and back, so I can send emails next to someone else. I'll happily split the benefit with them in working hours, which in my job I was expected to do anyway, but the flex was only ever one way.
Others are dying to be back and were in as soon as the pilot schemes were opened up again - so I think hybrid hopefully allows for different work styles.

I am sure in all that its the higher ups who tend to love being in the office, so I am sure the day will come that they say to get back in or explain why we cant, and would think thats a shame. In the medium term it will be a point of differentiation, I would take a lower salary for flex with all that saves me in petrol, parking lunches, suits and laundry.

That's what it will come down to at the end of the day. Doesn't matter what we think or want. It's what the higher ups want. That will probably vary from company to company. Some will appreciate money saving aspect while others might feel productivity/quality was greater in the office. Either way I don't think this is the end of the office.

This is completely off topic but I think whatever side of the argument you are on it's made people re-evaluate how important our free time is and just how much of it we spend working/traveling to work. I hope this is a big catalyst for a 4 day work week. I personally prefer working in the office but the free time I've gained has been invaluable.

GavRedKing

I'd imagine any office space that a company is renting, the company is still paying that rent, maybe a reduced rate, to have an office open with nobody in it, there comes a point when a decision will have to be made on that.

We're in financial services for funds, so theres no doubt in my mind if they wanted to, they could up root the Cork branch and Dublin branch to a cheaper part of Europe, keep the European timezone advantage and from a cost POV, theyed save money in the long term.

I'd prefer to WFH for the foreseeable future but I'm also realistic about it and that we will have to go back to the office at some stage, I've enjoyed the last 5 or 6 months at home but I've never really let it bother me that I'll have to go back and make the commute daily.

Danger781

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'd imagine any office space that a company is renting, the company is still paying that rent, maybe a reduced rate, to have an office open with nobody in it, there comes a point when a decision will have to be made on that.

Our company is actually in the process of opening a new office for us in Cork that none of us have seen yet :pac: It had all started pre-covid and still got the go-ahead regardless of the uncertainty. It's been sitting idle for months now.

Mav11

GavRedKing wrote: »

We're in financial services for funds, so theres no doubt in my mind if they wanted to, they could up root the Cork branch and Dublin branch to a cheaper part of Europe, keep the European timezone advantage and from a cost POV, theyed save money in the long term.

They could go to a cheaper part of Europe, or they could go to India or some other low cost economy. But if this happens on a large scale, you (the EU / Govt) have to consider the implications on the dynamics of the wider economy.

Reminds me a bit of an old story where a car manufacturer was boasting to a union rep that a new robot, recently introduced, would do the work of 12 men. The Rep responded, "but will it buy 12 cars"?

who_me

Mav11 wrote: »

Reminds me a bit of an old story where a car manufacturer was boasting to a union rep that a new robot, recently introduced, would do the work of 12 men. The Rep responded, "but will it buy 12 cars"?

Hah, that's very good. I remember reading a sobering story about some US PC manufacturer (Dell maybe?) that outsourced its departments bit by bit for cost saving. Until eventually it had outsourced most of its skillset, and was really just a shell company at that point; and was overtaken by overseas competitors who'd picked up their skilled overseas employees. There are always implications to all these decisions.

On the WFH thing though - it has huge potential for change though. It means people don't need to live near work, which reduces the pressure on house-prices in cities and could breath new life into smaller towns and rural areas. People don't need to commute, so less traffic/congestion/pollution. More time spent at home with family is a big plus.

On the negative side, the cities are already losing their retail sector to online sales, and if they lose offices too there's not much left.

mrpdap

New hotel on Macurtain St
https://instagram.com/stories/corkcitycentre/2405250185700904210?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1kn5lno9ythca

marno21

OCP have got planning for an extra floor on Block D of Navigation Square. Construction to begin in 2021

They are also in negotiations with several occupants for the ready to fit out Block B and expect a successful conclusion.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40053746.html

Apogee

Examiner wrote:

A proposal for 45 new apartments in the west of Cork city has been rejected. Dennehys Cross Construction Ltd was seeking to demolish an existing disused garage to build four three-bed, 29 two-bed and 12 one-bed apartments in two blocks, one five and one six storey.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40054313.html

lisasimpson

Definately the novelty of WFH is wearing off for me the last 2 month. I miss the interaction with people and definately agree with the poster whi said about graduate roles etc.
I think another reason for the need for office space will come down to health and safety reason. How many have complained about sore backs and necks from working on laptops at kitchen tables? Actually this and the lack of social interaction has the potential to be a benefit to rural towns around the country with the developement of digital hubs where you could rent a desk for a day or a week whatever you want it for.
Also a lot of people in their 20/30 want to live in larger urban centers for better social life.most of these live in house/apartment shares which isnt ideal for WFH. Its a neccessity for now
Id like a blended approach once we are past this. Maybe a day or 2 a week from home. There will always be a demand for office space . I think the likes of google are holding out for a better deal.

cantalach

lisasimpson wrote: »

I think another reason for the need for office space will come down to health and safety reason. How many have complained about sore backs and necks from working on laptops at kitchen tables?

True, but there’s no reason why responsible employers (or, perhaps more cynically, employers with cautious legal departments) wouldn’t pay for desk, chair, docking station, and screens to ensure employees are ergonomically set up at home. My own employer is fine with us bringing home anything portable including chair our chairs.

Also a lot of people in their 20/30 want to live in larger urban centers for better social life.most of these live in house/apartment shares which isnt ideal for WFH.

It’s frequently the case too that single young people are sharing a house or apartment. I really notice a split when on calls with younger colleagues compared to older ones. The former tend to be in their bedrooms while the latter are in a home office.

Maybe a day or 2 a week from home. There will always be a demand for office space .

I think that is what many employers in the tech sector will arrive at, my own included. They’ll be able to drastically reduce their office space - meeting rooms and hot desks. They could even have multiple satellite offices in lower rent locations outside the city.

snotboogie

cantalach wrote: »

I think that is what many employers in the tech sector will arrive at, my own included. They’ll be able to drastically reduce their office space - meeting rooms and hot desks. They could even have multiple satellite offices in lower rent locations outside the city.

I'm seeing the opposite, consolidation of office space.

I also don't see 2 days a week from home being common, there is very little to be gained from a desk space perspective unless you bring in quite complicated systems or hotdesk everyone. I think companies will either go back to normal (most SME's and public sector) or go to two or three days per month in the office (most larger companies) which would allow for a complete revamp of office space.

Markcheese

mrpdap wrote: »

New hotel on Macurtain St
https://instagram.com/stories/corkcitycentre/2405250185700904210?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1kn5lno9ythca

Any more news on the fire ?

ofcork

I dont think that dennehys cross development would have looked out of place.

Olivia Pope

Anyone looking at houses on the Western side of Cork City? I drove around a bit today. Had seen Steeplewoods advertised over the last year or two. It was mainly big detached houses when it launched. Drove in to it today for the first time and it seems to have changed to alot of semi detached. Also drove up to Reldare at the poulavone end of the Model Farm Road. Nice houses but the gardens, so so small. Would love a detached in Reldare but they are €595k. Too much for us. It's so disheartening. I'd say we will have to leave the city.

Treehelpplease

mount woods? east side of the city but could be good. look nice

Olivia Pope

Treehelpplease wrote: »

mount woods? east side of the city but could be good. look nice

Thanks for the recommendation. Is that Douglas? We aren't interested in living in that area

Danger781

Olivia Pope wrote: »

Anyone looking at houses on the Western side of Cork City? I drove around a bit today. Had seen Steeplewoods advertised over the last year or two. It was mainly big detached houses when it launched. Drove in to it today for the first time and it seems to have changed to alot of semi detached. Also drove up to Reldare at the poulavone end of the Model Farm Road. Nice houses but the gardens, so so small. Would love a detached in Reldare but they are €595k. Too much for us. It's so disheartening. I'd say we will have to leave the city.

Steeplewoods are mad expensive. What kind of budget are you looking at? Are you looking at new builds only? Most new builds are going in around 450k+ in Ballincollig. Especially true for Reldare and Carraig Tuair when they're finished. It was the same in Heathfield when that was done.

Treehelpplease

Olivia Pope wrote: »

Thanks for the recommendation. Is that Douglas? We aren't interested in living in that area

Ya up on Maryborough hill. 216 and 220 bus outside it, 220 is a 24 hour high frequency bus going to ballincollig via the city centre and west of the city. cycle lane up the hill to it if thats what youre interested in. its in the maryborough ridge park. a centra in the park across the road and walking distance to mount oval village. also a golf course next door if you like that stuff, and two gyms in maryborough hotel and spa and Rochestown Park Hotel. a primary school in walking distance (also served by the 216 on wet days), loads of secondary and primary schools in bus distance. lots of families and greens. plus access to the link road connecting to city centre. i dont live there but I'd like to one day if I can

bingo9999

Olivia Pope wrote: »

Anyone looking at houses on the Western side of Cork City? I drove around a bit today. Had seen Steeplewoods advertised over the last year or two. It was mainly big detached houses when it launched. Drove in to it today for the first time and it seems to have changed to alot of semi detached. Also drove up to Reldare at the poulavone end of the Model Farm Road. Nice houses but the gardens, so so small. Would love a detached in Reldare but they are €595k. Too much for us. It's so disheartening. I'd say we will have to leave the city.

Not sure if still selling but Clonlara was cheaper than Steeplewoods when we were looking and we liked them a lot, ended up buying. Theyre at an advanced stage in the overall plan but worth a call to Sherry Fitz to see whats still on the go, I know one semi D was bought and came back on the market on third party sale

dory

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Ya up on Maryborough hill. 216 and 220 bus outside it, 220 is a 24 hour high frequency bus going to ballincollig via the city centre and west of the city. cycle lane up the hill to it if thats what youre interested in. its in the maryborough ridge park. a centra in the park across the road and walking distance to mount oval village. also a golf course next door if you like that stuff, and two gyms in maryborough hotel and spa and Rochestown Park Hotel. a primary school in walking distance (also served by the 216 on wet days), loads of secondary and primary schools in bus distance. lots of families and greens. plus access to the link road connecting to city centre. i dont live there but I'd like to one day if I can

I'd say hang on to see how the M28 motorway pans out. From looking at the plans, some of those houses will be right up against it and it could be very loud.

Treehelpplease

from walking around there a few weeks ago to check out the houses, it depends on where you are. some are right next to it and it's really loud. a bit back and suddenly it's silent. there's a lot of thick tree cover. the houses at the front facing onto the hill are probably the nicest imo. i think there is one for sale by the exit

Treehelpplease

Yup, there are two for sale in the park

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/11-manor-avenue-maryborough-ridge-douglas-cork-city/4454565 (€490,000)
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/10-edgewood-marborough-ridge-douglas-co-cork/4444834 (€400,000)

Across the road is Broadale the park i mentioned earlier with centra. there is a few houses for sale there. all the same benefits of the above but not near the m28

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/2-willsbrook-maryborough-hill-douglas-cork/4432683 (€300,000)
https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/douglas/19-the-crescent-broadale-douglas-cork-2676312/ (€260,000)
https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/douglas/5-the-heights-broadale-maryborough-hill-douglas-cork-2738969/ (€685,000)

There are also loads for sale in Maryborough Woods (half way down the hill) and The Paddocks (a bit further down the hill). All different prices

Olivia Pope

bingo9999 wrote: »

Not sure if still selling but Clonlara was cheaper than Steeplewoods when we were looking and we liked them a lot, ended up buying. Theyre at an advanced stage in the overall plan but worth a call to Sherry Fitz to see whats still on the go, I know one semi D was bought and came back on the market on third party sale

Hi Bingo,

Are you happy with Clonlara. What are the gardens like in size? Do you have alot of houses looking into your garden?