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Electrical Heating

Neilw

Hi all,

Are there any energy efficient electric heaters available?

I’ve seen all sorts of wall mounted radiator type heaters but I don’t want to buy something that ends up either costing a fortune or gives out poor heat.

I’m heating a 5m x 8m room, it’s an insulated mezzanine floor in a workshop.

Thanks.

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mikeecho

The first law of thermodynamics.. (look it up)

You'll only get out what you put in.
Electric heaters are never cheap to run.

1 unit of electricity will create X amount of heat... That can't be changed.

2011

The good news is that all electrical heaters are almost 100 % efficient. The bad news is that electricity is expensive so that most alternative energy sources can produce more heat at a lower cost even if they are less efficient.

Many confuse high efficiency with low running cost.

Neilw

Hmm, my original idea of a wood burning stove is probably going to be a better option.

2011

Neilw wrote: »

Hmm, my original idea of a wood burning stove is probably going to be a better option.

That is exact what I went for. I disconnected the only electrical heater in the house, the immersion.

ercork

Neilw wrote: »

Hmm, my original idea of a wood burning stove is probably going to be a better option.

Have a look at an air to air heat pump. Not sure what your budget is but you could definitely get one for under 2k. The running cost would be about a quarter of what electric heaters would be. And there would be no nasty emissions like you would get from wood burning.

2011

ercork wrote: »

Have a look at an air to air heat pump. Not sure what your budget is but you could definitely get one for under 2k. The running cost would be about a quarter of what electric heaters would be. And there would be no nasty emissions like you would get from wood burning.

I think a combination of heat pumps and descent insulation is the future.

antoinolachtnai

You have to factor in the time and cost of hauling timber upstairs to a mezzanine.

You have to take into account your need for extraction/air changes too, depending on the type of workshop.

A radiant type of heater (basically a gas or electric patio heater) might be a good solution, depending on the situation. These heat objects rather than the air.

a.

maxamillius

Any thoughts on electrical heating as the main source in a house these days. Friend looking at buying a house with no central heating but has storage heaters. Wondering could they change the storage heaters to a more efficient electrical heater and still be on par with oil or gas CH systems.

alan4cult

Yes and no,
Heating will also give you the benefit of heating water cheaply. Heating water with an immersion needs to be considered too.
Electrical heaters do have the benefit of room by room easier control than water but with modern zoning it's easier to have rooms with valves.

You will struggle to beat oil or gas I would say.

2011

alan4cult wrote: »

Yes and no,
Heating will also give you the benefit of heating water cheaply.

Typo

Heating water with an immersion needs to be considered too.

Consider not doing it would be best.

You will struggle to beat oil or gas I would say.

+1, agree.

This comes up on an almost weekly basis on this forum.
All electrical heaters are almost 100% efficient from the cheapest to the most expensive. The issue is the cost per unit of electricity is high, this makes it far less economical to heat a home (or water) electrically than with a less efficient gas boiler.

Heat pumps are an entirely different matter as they can output more heat energy than they consume in terms of electrical energy. But these of course are not electrical heaters.

maxamillius

alan4cult wrote: »

Yes and no,
Heating will also give you the benefit of heating water cheaply. Heating water with an immersion needs to be considered too.
Electrical heaters do have the benefit of room by room easier control than water but with modern zoning it's easier to have rooms with valves.

You will struggle to beat oil or gas I would say.

Ye so currently in the house there is an immersion for hot water and that’s it, everything else is storage heating! They are looking at getting the house wrapped in external insulation, my thoughts were that although electrical heaters may be slightly more costly to run, if the house is well insulated then they wouldn’t need the CH on as much

John.G

The house wrap is probably a good investment also changing the current storage heaters for ones that really store the heat and only emit it when required, like the Dimplex Quantum might be worth considering, also if the immersion is only timed to heat the water at night rate then while the energy costs still won't match gas/oil, they might be ~ 30% higher.
If the house is cosy wrapped then serious consideration should also be given to the Heat Pump option.

ercork

If the insulation and airtightness are brought to a good level then a heat pump would be a really good option.

Air to water are the most common for heating and hot water but are fairly expensive to install. It's also quite a big job, requiring the installation of pipes, rads, underfloor heating, etc.

Air to air are much cheaper and easier to install and could be a good option depending on the internal layout of the house. They don't do hot water but if, as the previous post says, the immersion heater is used during off peak times, this is a decent option for hot water.

maxamillius

Thanks for the reply’s lads, some interesting food for thought there regarding the heat pumps.

What’s actually involved in installing air to air?

Regarding the house, they got outbid and it’s now at 640k, imagine that, a house with no CH and an F BER rating!

2011

First off let me clearly state I am far from an expert on heat pumps. I can and have dealt with them from an electrical perspective but I would be the wrong person to advise from other perspectives.

However, I did talk to a Mitsubishi technical expert at the Ideal Home show in the RDS. His advice was not to install a heat pump in any home with an energy rating below A. His position was that the low grade heat provided from heat pumps is simply not suited to homes with lower BER ratings. Anyway there is no point in debating with me about it, that was his position. It is worth noting that his primary aim is to sell as many as possible, but he also wants happy customers.

ercork

maxamillius wrote: »

Thanks for the reply’s lads, some interesting food for thought there regarding the heat pumps.

What’s actually involved in installing air to air?

Regarding the house, they got outbid and it’s now at 640k, imagine that, a house with no CH and an F BER rating!

Air to air is basically an air conditioner. An outdoor unit is installed against the back wall of your house and the indoor unit gets installed the other side of the wall and just blows out warm air at a steady rate. It is possible to separate them by several metres with ducting but the shorter the distance the better.

This will work fine for an open plan setup. Otherwise, it is possible to run several indoor units off one outdoor unit. Another option would be to get two heat pumps and put one to the front and one to the rear of the house. Or maybe one upstairs and one downstairs. They cost between 1500 and 2000 each.

There are quite a few posts on here about them. If you did want to investigate further, it would be best to get an installer out to the house.

buzz11

Hi

I've a dimplex night storage heater that only operates at full heat, I've adjusted the input dial but it still puts out full heat every night.

What could be at fault?

bobbyy gee

thermostat is stuck is there a reset button

buzz11

bobbyy gee wrote: »

thermostat is stuck is there a reset button

Sound, I'll find it - I've reset ones before -- this is useful;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MguvffPaE

meercat

buzz11 wrote: »

Sound, I'll find it - I've reset ones before -- this is useful;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9MguvffPaE

It’s unlikely to be the reset button.
Storage heaters are tricky to regulate the output. It’s actually just a mechanical vent that opens/closes to let the heat out. Check that this vent is functioning correctly.

2011

As far as I recall the reset button needs to be pressed when they can’t switch on. It’s like a high cut out stat. It’s been a while but I think we needed a small pointy screwdriver to do it.

Zarco

2011 wrote: »

As far as I recall the reset button needs to be pressed when they can’t switch on. It’s like a high cut out stat. It’s been a while but I think we needed a small pointy screwdriver to do it.

Ya

It should be the control stat at fault if the op has turned it right down

I don't recall any problems with them

adrian92

I think that the reset switch is when a storage heater does not heat up at all.
In this case the problem is temperature control.

Seems like a thermostat failure

seandeas

Folks, I’ve a small apartment with two 20 year old storage heaters, one in the hall and the other in the sitting room. The one in the sitting room has stopped working and I’m thinking of replacing rather that repairing it. Can anyone offer any opinions on which is better - new storage heaters, or Ecovolt or Fahro? I’m out and about a lot and it seems wasteful to have a warm apartment heated by storage heaters when there’s no one home. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you 😊

Spanish Eyes

seandeas wrote: »

Folks, I’ve a small apartment with two 20 year old storage heaters, one in the hall and the other in the sitting room. The one in the sitting room has stopped working and I’m thinking of replacing rather that repairing it. Can anyone offer any opinions on which is better - new storage heaters, or Ecovolt or Fahro? I’m out and about a lot and it seems wasteful to have a warm apartment heated by storage heaters when there’s no one home. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you 😊

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Back to gas now and new boiler.

seandeas

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Back to gas now and new boiler.

Thanks mate, I guess those oil filled radiators are good but I’m looking for something a bit more permanent to replace the storage heaters.

bobbyy gee

electricity is expensive

what's her ratings of house

https://www.statista.com/statistics/418082/electricity-prices-for-households-in-ireland/

2011

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Have you tried a plug in oil filled radiator? Also halogen heaters are good. Neither are too heavy on costs.

Actually all electrical heaters are very expensive to run. 1kW of heat for one hour consumes 1 unit of electricity regardless of whether an oil filled rad or a halogen heater is used. Unfortunately a unit of electricity costs far more than a unit of gas.

I know this because we had a boiler blowout end of Feb (Gas), and when lockdown happened well no one would do anything. Bought both the above and survived, and the bills were grand (less even) than normal, but that was to be expected.

With respect this is not a very scientific way to conclude that the above heaters are cheap to run. The mild weather during lockdown and estimated electricity bills could have been the reason for the bills being reasonable.

Only issue we had was using the Immersion for water heating, but it was ok.

Immersions are just another type of electrical heater. How did you decide this was an issue but the other two electrical heater types were "grand" ?

Back to gas now and new boiler.

That makes sense.

2011

seandeas wrote: »

Thanks mate, I guess those oil filled radiators are good but I’m looking for something a bit more permanent to replace the storage heaters.

There is no reason that they need to be any less permanent.
Personally I would prefer the heat from an oil filled rad, it is less dry than a storage heater.

ted1

I’m looking for alternatives too.
I’ve a house I rent out and the gas heating system needs to be replaced. I’ve had a quite if about 6k. For a boiler, 7 rads and pipe work.

I’m thinking I could install 7 electric heaters for about 3,500. Snd not have to worry about leaks or servicing. So while gas may be cheaper there’d be no standing charge 150 or annual service 100. Which would cover higher running costs.

Any thoughts?