DART coming to Maynooth line in 2024

beauf wrote: »

The suggestion being when they panned the estates. They knowingly built roads that would completely cut off when the came back to build the planned bridge. Makes perfect sense.

It's quite normal to build roads in this manner as it's relatively straightforward to rework roads, whereas it's complex to go down the CPO route to demolish peoples homes. You can see clearly on a map where the reservation is. If you draw the line where the bridge is planned, you can see that the area has been kept free of property development, it's not a coincidence that only North/South aligned gaps in development happen to be across the railway/canal from each other. The only building "in the way" appears to be one on Sheepmore Lane, that appears to have been built before at least 1995.

Polar101

I've only seen the bits about level crossings, but are there any plans for more park & ride spaces? It's great to get more capacity to the train line, but they'd also need to add more park & ride spaces ,in order to get people out of their cars and on to the trains.

The suggestion being when they panned the estates. They knowingly built roads that would completely cut off when the came back to build the planned bridge. Makes perfect sense.

The logic behind this bridge is that traffic will fan out in both directions once it enters Riverwood allowing the traffic to "disperse"
If it goes right it immediately hits the tailback trying to get Dr Troy bridge/Porterstown Rd. So it can only go left. Which it will then hit the tail back from Castleknock College, or down in Laurel Lodge.
Dr Troy bridge is like a traffic magnet, so obviously so will this new bridge. Especially as it was constrained by the level crossing up to now. So you're increasing the traffic hitting all these bottlenecks.

That will only do one thing.

blanch152

kdevitt wrote: »

There was never space 'reserved' for a bridge, the land is quite clearly zoned as open space only.

Zoned as open space so that it couldn't be developed and available for potential alternative use at a future date for a bridge. That is a common enough tactic for county councils.

The councillors did try to prevent it.

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-fingal-development-plan-2017-%E2%80%93-2023-stage-2/chapter/appendix-6-map-based-local

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-fingal-development-plan-2017-%E2%80%93-2023-stage-2/chapter/map-13-blanchardstown-south

126 Prohibit any road bridge at this location" was included in the current Fingal Development Plan, but the seeds were sown at an earlier stage. That amendment wouldn't have been needed if the bridge was not technically possible and if a bridge had not been envisaged at an earlier stage.

blanch152 wrote: »

What tiny estate is getting two huge bridges?

Riverwood is far from tiny, and as the poster points out, there was space reserved for this bridge from a long time back.

There was never space 'reserved' for a bridge, the land is quite clearly zoned as open space only.

blanch152

beauf wrote: »

You reckon that in that long stretch from Clonsilla to Blanchardstown the plan all along was to close all the crossings and replace with two giant bridges beside each other into a tiny estate.

What tiny estate is getting two huge bridges?

Riverwood is far from tiny, and as the poster points out, there was space reserved for this bridge from a long time back.

liamog wrote: »

The reason there are two cul de sacs with green space available near to Coolmine station where a bridge can be built, is due to the council holding back house building for a future route. Do people really think it's an accident that there just happens to be space to extend the road over the railway in a straight line from where the fire station is?

You reckon that in that long stretch from Clonsilla to Blanchardstown the plan all along was to close all the crossings and replace with two giant bridges beside each other into a tiny estate.

liamog wrote: »

The reason there are two cul de sacs with green space available near to Coolmine station where a bridge can be built, is due to the council holding back house building for a future route. Do people really think it's an accident that there just happens to be space to extend the road over the railway in a straight line from where the fire station is?

Apart from the fact that they're demolishing houses, it sounds like you've literally no idea of the layout of this area if you think house building has been held back on the land which is now going to be used.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

This post is a perfect example of the lack of planning that has (and continues to) gone into D15 in general. Planning permission continually being granted for developments with no future planning or sufficient infrastructure available to support the developments.

You're now left with the scenario you described above whereby the logical locations for a bridge to replace a level crossing has already been developed as housing estates.

Hard to see it changing anytime soon either. Just keep lumping houses out here, allow the occasional Lidl - bobs your uncle. The shared living complex that was granted PP (before being overturned - temporarily at least) at Bradys included 2 parking spots in their submission - to be shared amongst the 200 odd residents. They also indicated there would be no issue with parking in nearby roads and housing estates because of the under utilisation of the local trains, which will allow all residents to fully rely on public transport. Furthermore, no visitors will ever drive there either for the same reason. It's pure fantasy stuff which is getting through.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

You're now left with the scenario you described above whereby the logical locations for a bridge to replace a level crossing has already been developed as housing estates.

The reason there are two cul de sacs with green space available near to Coolmine station where a bridge can be built, is due to the council holding back house building for a future route. Do people really think it's an accident that there just happens to be space to extend the road over the railway in a straight line from where the fire station is?

kdevitt wrote: »

The designs being suggested for the road bridge at Coolmine are essentially a decade old - its come up as a question for election candidates several times, and in general they all committed to fighting any such proposal. Just sounds like IR have their mind made up on this approach and that's it. From being on the call with Irish Rail last week or the week before, it was immediately obvious that they literally don't have a clue about the area. They could provide peak time closures for the level crossing, but no data on off peak times. They thought one entrance to Riverwood didn't even exist, and really struggled with providing any detail.

The route for the bridge at Coolmine turns two very quiet residential cul de sacs into a main road - wiping out some nice lovely green space and mature trees in the process, and sticking a 9 meter high bridge right in front of peoples houses. The exit point at Coolmine Cross allows 4 cars to exit currently on green - and the traffic still backs up to Roselawn every evening. Any extension to that traffic light sequence will see people like me not actually being able to get into our housing estates. It also has the effect of forcing any traffic for Carpenterstown from turning left at the top of Delwood, in turn driving it all up the Coolmine Road back up toward Coolmine Cross. As it stands, that road backs up every day - and thats with the level crossing still open. I've been getting the train from Coolmine for the guts of 30 years now - so appreciate the need for upgrades, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of those who live nearby.

This post is a perfect example of the lack of planning that has (and continues to) gone into D15 in general. Planning permission continually being granted for developments with no future planning or sufficient infrastructure available to support the developments.

You're now left with the scenario you described above whereby the logical locations for a bridge to replace a level crossing has already been developed as housing estates.

The designs being suggested for the road bridge at Coolmine are essentially a decade old - its come up as a question for election candidates several times, and in general they all committed to fighting any such proposal. Just sounds like IR have their mind made up on this approach and that's it. From being on the call with Irish Rail last week or the week before, it was immediately obvious that they literally don't have a clue about the area. They could provide peak time closures for the level crossing, but no data on off peak times. They thought one entrance to Riverwood didn't even exist, and really struggled with providing any detail.

The route for the bridge at Coolmine turns two very quiet residential cul de sacs into a main road - wiping out some nice lovely green space and mature trees in the process, and sticking a 9 meter high bridge right in front of peoples houses. The exit point at Coolmine Cross allows 4 cars to exit currently on green - and the traffic still backs up to Roselawn every evening. Any extension to that traffic light sequence will see people like me not actually being able to get into our housing estates. It also has the effect of forcing any traffic for Carpenterstown from turning left at the top of Delwood, in turn driving it all up the Coolmine Road back up toward Coolmine Cross. As it stands, that road backs up every day - and thats with the level crossing still open. I've been getting the train from Coolmine for the guts of 30 years now - so appreciate the need for upgrades, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of those who live nearby.

Could be. Thats IR take on it anyway.

Maybe there's not so many using it because it often closed.

So closing Clonsilla would probably just split trafffic between a new Hansfield bridge and Dr Troy. I wonder what the numbers going over the Clonsilla level crossing actually are, it's a road we always avoided during rush hour, as you were so likely to get stuck waiting on trains.
It could be a case of there's lot's of traffic, but not many actual crossings.

Already does.

Since they opened up Dr Troy to Porterstown road, the traffic has increased exponentially.
Most obviously in the evenings with a traffic going over Dr Troy bridge to porterstown road all waiting to turn right towards Luttrelstown Castle.
I assume most of this is heading Lucan/Leixlip direction.

Coming off the R149 towards Littlepace, the route is pretty bad, far too much local traffic having to share roads thanks for the layout of the area. It would be difficult to absorb any traffic from a Clonsilla crossing closure. The new Hansfield bridge would basically dump traffic onto the Ongar distributor and probably split 50/50 both ways being a bad option.
I can't see a Coolmine bridge drawing much cross river traffic, it's just a bit too awkward to get to.

You'd think the R149 would be more direct. But what you're saying suggests the new bridge will indeed be a traffic magnet. Though I would have thought that going via coolmine and out to the M50 is bringing you through even worse traffic around the Blanch SC. I go northbound on the M50 myself, but only occasionally.

But I think this is the minor part of it. The vast majority of traffic is heading towards town via Castleknock village or College. All the locals see is gridlock, and this will add to it. I think it's hard to argue otherwise. Can't imagine the effect for those right beside this bridge.

beauf wrote: »

I don't see why such traffic to go anywhere near coolmine, or clonsilla crossing.

It's the most direct route back to the Northside M50 from the Laraghcon side of Lucan, the N3 tailbacks to Clonee anyway, so you may as well go a more direct route. There's probably a similar amount of traffic doing the reverse to head out to the R136 or Leixlip. The M50 toll is counter productive/

beauf wrote: »

Well IR want to close it because the traffic volumes are not significant.

So will this traffic double back on itself to R149 or will it continue down to the Dr Troy Bridge.

If that's IR reason for closing it, then they haven't researched it very well. I actually would be happy for it to be closed if they can find a workable solution, but that's going to be very difficult.

Well IR want to close it because the traffic volumes are not significant.

So will this traffic double back on itself to R149 or will it continue down to the Dr Troy Bridge.

Well I live next to Clonsilla crossing, and judging by tailbacks that are coming from Luttrellstown/Lucan direction in the morning, there must be a huge amount of traffic coming from somewhere over there.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I would imagine there could be a lot of NB M50 traffic exiting at Lucan and cutting across to D15 in order to avoid Tolls.

I don't see why such traffic to go anywhere near coolmine, or clonsilla crossing.

beauf wrote: »

Ideally? No idea what that means here. Why would traffic heading to city center go in the opposite direction and head to the 149?

I don't think all this traffic is coming from Clonsilla. There's too much of it. It has to pulling in traffic from a much larger area.

I would imagine there could be a lot of NB M50 traffic exiting at Lucan and cutting across to D15 in order to avoid Tolls.

Ideally? No idea what that means here. Why would traffic heading to city center go in the opposite direction and head to the 149?

I don't think all this traffic is coming from Clonsilla. There's too much of it. It has to pulling in traffic from a much larger area.

TheChrisD

beauf wrote: »

They want to not only close coolmine but also close clonsilla, and route all the traffic into riverwood. So instead of one grid locked enormous bridge into a tiny estate they will have two.

They don't want to push Clonsilla traffic through Riverwood - Clonsilla traffic will ideally be pushed to the R149 which should eventually connect to the future Barnhill distributor road.

..and are continuing to build, and are planning to build more.

Why not build new bridges and massive park and rides into those new developments. Change the paradigm.

The vast majority of this traffic seems not to be local. I wonder how far out the traffic is coming from. Could you scan number plates in multiple locations and see what correlations you chould find.

beauf wrote: »

I was on the fence on it. But its turning into a bit of shambles.

They want to not only close coolmine but also close clonsilla, and route all the traffic into riverwood. So instead of one grid locked enormous bridge into a tiny estate they will have two. So rather than dispersing this traffic in a wider area they want to concentrate it all basically in the one spot, two bridges basically beside each other. At peak times you already have Blanch shopping Center traffic backing up into these areas, and they are the main routes out of the area. So they are creating yet more density of traffic all in the same spot.

There were a bunch of other options, but it seems clear they are only really focused on one. If anyone listened to the IR webinar, it seemed they hadn't really any answers prepared for the residents. Granted it was just a initial meeting. To top it all they didn't bcc all the attendee's so that caused a GDPR issue. Which is a minor in the grand scheme of things, but wasn't a great first impression.

Most people want the improvements to the line, and understand its difficult planning issue. But considering there green field locations not far aware, why build it in the middle of a congested area. The planning for Kellystown is now up again another massive development right on the doorstep of this bridge. So all that will come into this also. (why not build it into Kellystown?)

All of the arguments for the bridge were said before they built Dr Troy bridge. It would ease congestion. Instead its like a traffic magnet, and has almost immediately filled to capacity and caused more congestion.

If its going to be gridlock regardless. I think there's a feeling, that just close coolmine, but don't build a new bridge. Let the congestion on Dr Troy bridge force traffic to go some other route, or force people out of their cars in the first place.

Generally though they'll keep at this till they get it.

All salient points. Ultimately it comes down to the fact their isn't sufficient infrastructure to support the volume of housing that has been built in the area over the past number of years

ciaran76 wrote: »

Seeing plenty no to the bridge Facebook Campaign from Riverwood and St. Moctas residents groups.

https://www.riverwoodres.com/2020/08/dart-and-riverwood-court-bridge/

I can understand if I lived there.

I was on the fence on it. But its turning into a bit of shambles.

They want to not only close coolmine but also close clonsilla, and route all the traffic into riverwood. So instead of one grid locked enormous bridge into a tiny estate they will have two. So rather than dispersing this traffic in a wider area they want to concentrate it all basically in the one spot, two bridges basically beside each other. At peak times you already have Blanch shopping Center traffic backing up into these areas, and they are the main routes out of the area. So they are creating yet more density of traffic all in the same spot.

There were a bunch of other options, but it seems clear they are only really focused on one. If anyone listened to the IR webinar, it seemed they hadn't really any answers prepared for the residents. Granted it was just a initial meeting. To top it all they didn't bcc all the attendee's so that caused a GDPR issue. Which is a minor in the grand scheme of things, but wasn't a great first impression.

Most people want the improvements to the line, and understand its difficult planning issue. But considering there green field locations not far aware, why build it in the middle of a congested area. The planning for Kellystown is now up again another massive development right on the doorstep of this bridge. So all that will come into this also. (why not build it into Kellystown?)

All of the arguments for the bridge were said before they built Dr Troy bridge. It would ease congestion. Instead its like a traffic magnet, and has almost immediately filled to capacity and caused more congestion.

If its going to be gridlock regardless. I think there's a feeling, that just close coolmine, but don't build a new bridge. Let the congestion on Dr Troy bridge force traffic to go some other route, or force people out of their cars in the first place.

Generally though they'll keep at this till they get it.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Anyone attend, or hear, what went on at, the Emer Currie meeting about this?

No missed it. BB went down just before it. I expect it would be the party line though.