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The eBike thread

unkel

A quick look seems that this doesn't really seem to fit in the cycling forum. So starting a thread here about all things eBike

I'll get the ball rolling. I have zero experience with eBikes. But I was going to build myself a battery anyway, for various reasons (like in bringing with me in my EV as a "petrol can")

I'm going to buy a solderless kit to make the battery (with 18650 cells I have removed from dead / old laptop batteries). This kit cah handle 20A max, and I would like the battery pack to produce 1kW constant. P=V*I so 1000W = 50V * 20A

This dictates that my battery needs to be nominal 48V (was thinking of making a 24V battery pack, but that won't be able to charge my car)

A quick browse on eBay and Amazon shows that you could buy a powerful 1000W bike conversion kit with everything needed except the battery for about GBP120 (a bit more from Amazon but peace of mind)

What to buy though, front wheel or rear wheel kit? Pros and cons? Any other advice?

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John Hutton

I have a BBS02 mid drive and it is fine to pedal with no power, on the flat. For example, I have the speed limited to 25km/hr (as legally required) and on the flat I cycle faster than that under my own steam (say, 30 or so). If it broke or ran out of power I would be able to make my way home. Or if it was out of power and I needed to go to the shops or something I wouldn't hesitate to do so under my own steam. It gets tricky when it comes to hills, but this is because I no longer have a triple on the front with a granny gear., rather than the motor making it feel like I'm cycling in quicksand.

It really depends on how you want to use the bike. I wanted it to extend my range and flatten the hills, but I wanted to still do some effort myself. I have done 85kms since my last (~90%) charge and still have 60 something % battery power left in my 17.5ah battery. So evidentially, I did a lot of that 85km "under my own steam" or with low amounts of power being pulled, yet the motor made it feel like I was pleasantly cycling on the flat on a normal bike, with a light wind at my back, even when going up hills. Once you get up to speed it doesn't take much power to keep you at 25km/hr especially if you are pedalling yourself.

I did recently reprogram the BBS02 and it is much better and efficient, and not as "jerky".

[Deleted User]

fuse wrote: »

Hey, did you go with any kit yet?
I have a ten year old Giant 28" 700c also, just looking into converting.

Sounds like a mid drive replacement would be best but hub replacement much easier?

Also wondering, what happens if you run out of power, it's still possible to cycle as normal but just that you've got extra weight?

Depends on the Hub motor and power, In aluminium dropouts I would recommend using torque arms to stop the axle spinning in the dropouts.

In a 28 inch wheel I would recommend a mid drive because larger wheel diameters give you less torque and are harder on the motor.

DIY Mid drive is a little tricky to fit and you can run into alignment issues with the chain but once setup for low power use they are pretty good.

Ease of peddling they are not, it's only the newest of ebikes such as the Good German brand motors such as Bosch and Brose, you will pay for these bikes but the reward is more pedal efficiency when not using motor power, you can even get carbon fibre electric bikes from say the likes of Haibike who make really great bikes.

The only DIY ebike that's the easiest to pedal without motor power are the geared hub motors with internal clutch, when motor power is off there is no mechanical connection to anything unlike a mid mount motor which has some cogging, the likes of the Bafang mid drive kits are reported to have a lot of drag compared to geared hubs.

So if max pedal efficiency is required and you want to keep with the 28inch wheel type bikes then the very latest Bosch and Brose motors are the ones to get but be warned, the 25 Km/hr cut off speed as required by dictating E.U is really frustrating and you can find yourself fighting that line of motor cutting in and out as you are at that limit.

Esooters are all over the place now and can go faster than ebikes you couldn't make this sh1t up if you tried, bicycles are much safer.

fuse

deadlast wrote: »

Hi guys, I've read about half of this thread so far. Good info and very interesting.

I've an old 28" wheel Giant hybrid here I'm thinking of putting a front hub and small battery on.

Anyone recommend a bargain kit? I see Unkel got a 36v 500w kit for £139 but I can't seem to find anything cheap as that. Don't want to get hit with customs either.

Hey, did you go with any kit yet?
I have a ten year old Giant 28" 700c also, just looking into converting.

Sounds like a mid drive replacement would be best but hub replacement much easier?

Also wondering, what happens if you run out of power, it's still possible to cycle as normal but just that you've got extra weight?

[Deleted User]

fixXxer wrote: »

After going back and forth for ages I finally settles on this bike, the Ezego Fold.

A couple of cycles in to work and have to say its a great little runner. The fold up size isnt tiny but its small enough to fit in the office at work or under the stairs at home. The assist is fine. Five levels so can be adjusted to suit whats required easily from the handle bar control. Only odd thing about it is there seems to be a jump from gear 6 to 7/8 but I'm sure that can adjusted I assume.

45 Nm isn't much torque for a hub motor but it will probably be fine if you just need a boost on flat ground.

fixXxer

After going back and forth for ages I finally settles on this bike, the Ezego Fold.

A couple of cycles in to work and have to say its a great little runner. The fold up size isnt tiny but its small enough to fit in the office at work or under the stairs at home. The assist is fine. Five levels so can be adjusted to suit whats required easily from the handle bar control. Only odd thing about it is there seems to be a jump from gear 6 to 7/8 but I'm sure that can adjusted I assume.

Outlaw Pete

Yeah, made sure to select the Poland warehouse at checkout.

A lot of times the China warehouse will be the only one with stock though.

In fact, at the moment that's the case with the bike.

unkel

Ah ok you're lucky you didn't get stung for 23% VAT plus admin costs so! Wouldn't have been much of a bargain then.

Outlaw Pete

Got it form Keeper & Jim's on AliExpress. Took around 10 days or so to get here.

They are good with communication too unlike many sellers on AliExperss. Recommend them for sure.

unkel

Must produce at least 1000W for it to do 50km/h unless that guy in the video was very light. A lot of eBike for the money, any link to where you bought it? Might help some people.

Outlaw Pete

Had a Samebike M-9 for the last few months, really recommend one. Paid €799 for it. Had the 500w version and did around 700km on it during the lockdown. Helped pass the time for sure. Max speed on was 37km/h with throttle only (although the speedo was saying 40km/h). That was on private land as a mate has a farm near me. At that speed pedaling along was pointless though but I seen one video where a guy had increased the main cog to a 55 tooth one and they could get 50km/h then.

That was my first bike with a thumb throttle and I much preferred it over the twist throttle on the Fiido D2S. It's so much easier to use and much less strain.

Here's a decent review of the bike (but you'll have to switch on subtitles unless you speak Italiano):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK_1sSIQIes

The only adjustment I made to the bike was that I bought a height adjustment thingamajig as the handlebars I felt were much too low and made the ride uncomfortable.

[Deleted User]

loughside wrote: »

If that 20km is on the flat then you`re good to go - hubs don`t like steep hills all that well.

Hubs are fine on hills as long as you got the right motor for the job, i.e large enough to dissipate the heat and the right winding, for torque or speed, torque is better for hills at the expense of top speed, but the idea it to use higher voltage to gain back more speed and will also help to climb at faster speeds.

Hubs will climb anything as long as you have the right setup for the job but crank drives are the best on the steepest of stuff with lower powered motors.

If you're going with insane climbs then a motor in a 16 inch wheel is better, less stress on the motor.

In these extreme climbs you risk breaking chains with chain drive setups.

No doubt though that the chain drive is much more efficient on the steep stuff due to the motors ability to use the bikes gearing.

[Deleted User]

deadlast wrote: »

@Mad_Lad,. I'll email them and ask if it's a geared hub. Thanks.

EDIT:-. They said "it is brushless gear motor."

@Champioc, what battery did you get for your dad's bike and what kind of range is it getting?

My commute is only 20km and I can charge in work. It'll be down to 16km if they ever finish the canal path.

Geared hub is better, at least it should be a lot easier to pedal without motor power.

loughside

deadlast wrote: »

@Mad_Lad,. I'll email them and ask if it's a geared hub. Thanks.

EDIT:-. They said "it is brushless gear motor."

@Champioc, what battery did you get for your dad's bike and what kind of range is it getting?

My commute is only 20km and I can charge in work. It'll be down to 16km if they ever finish the canal path.

If that 20km is on the flat then you`re good to go - hubs don`t like steep hills all that well.

deadlast

@Mad_Lad,. I'll email them and ask if it's a geared hub. Thanks.

EDIT:-. They said "it is brushless gear motor."

@Champioc, what battery did you get for your dad's bike and what kind of range is it getting?

My commute is only 20km and I can charge in work. It'll be down to 16km if they ever finish the canal path.

[Deleted User]

championc wrote: »

Would a 36v 250w not be ok for canal bank cycling ? That was the motor I build for my Dad and I could easily go up to 30kmph on the flat, so I actually had to short the pins on the 3 speed control to slow it down for him

For flat ground it's probably ok, would be interesting to know if it's a geared hub because they offer better torque and also freewheel making it much easy to pedal without power.

Probably more than 250 watts getting to the motor anyway truth be told.

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

+1

@Mad_Lad - not everyone who wants an electric bike wants to do 50km/h on it or for it to propel you up a mountain at ludicrous speeds. That's mainly just for maniacs like you and me

Most other people looking for advice just want some electric assistance and the kits in the last few posts are pretty much perfect for that.

LOl. well, I suppose I just can't imagine what a bike with such little power feels like.

However, depends on how much power is actually getting to the motor, has to be a proper balance because the motor is a little bit small for a 28 inch wheel and feeding it too much power will heat it fast but on flat ground it will probably be ok.

unkel

+1

@Mad_Lad - not everyone who wants an electric bike wants to do 50km/h on it or for it to propel you up a mountain at ludicrous speeds. That's mainly just for maniacs like you and me

Most other people looking for advice just want some electric assistance and the kits in the last few posts are pretty much perfect for that.

championc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't tell if the motor is a geared hub or not, you need a geared hub for some better torque, that motor is not going to produce much power either way, if you intend to climb hills you'd be far better off getting a chain drive system, pay a bit more and you will be glad. If it were Me I wouldn't go with this motor but I would go for a stronger one in the rear which is going to be hard to find a good higher power geared hub in Europe.

Or just get a Bafang BBS02 I think it's called, 750 Watt motor. I can't recommend a E.U supplier because I don't know any. I'm long out of the ebike building game.

Would a 36v 250w not be ok for canal bank cycling ? That was the motor I build for my Dad and I could easily go up to 30kmph on the flat, so I actually had to short the pins on the 3 speed control to slow it down for him

[Deleted User]

deadlast wrote: »

Thanks guys for the replies.

Two kits jumping out at me so far. I'll only be using it for the canal Greenway and around the town. If they ever finish the clonsilla section, it can be a winter hack for a bit of scenic commuting.

€235. 36v 250w. From Netherlands.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223560744662

€225 36. 250w. From Poland.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303200166356

What are those battery connections on those controllers called?

I can't tell if the motor is a geared hub or not, you need a geared hub for some better torque, that motor is not going to produce much power either way, if you intend to climb hills you'd be far better off getting a chain drive system, pay a bit more and you will be glad. If it were Me I wouldn't go with this motor but I would go for a stronger one in the rear which is going to be hard to find a good higher power geared hub in Europe.

Or just get a Bafang BBS02 I think it's called, 750 Watt motor. I can't recommend a E.U supplier because I don't know any. I'm long out of the ebike building game.

deadlast

Thanks guys for the replies.

Two kits jumping out at me so far. I'll only be using it for the canal Greenway and around the town. If they ever finish the clonsilla section, it can be a winter hack for a bit of scenic commuting.

€235. 36v 250w. From Netherlands.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223560744662

€225 36. 250w. From Poland.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303200166356

What are those battery connections on those controllers called?

unkel

Similar to championc, but the hub motor I ordered did get intercepted so I ended up paying 23% VAT over it and also the admin charge of the courier of about €14 iirc

If you buy the parts separately, you can get much better deals. But it does mean you have to figure out how it all works and you might have to fabricate your own connections

If you go for a complete kit, you pay more, but it's all click and play. Very easy to assemble. Might be the way to go if it's your first kit and you're not particularly handy...

championc

Kit's including 28" wheels all appear to have 1.75" width rims, so I went the full DIY route to build a bike for my Dad. So I bought a hub via AliExpress and Joe Daly's in Dundrum provided the rim, spokes and laced it. Each of those three bits were about €40 each, so the wheel alone therefore cost me over €200. The cheap kits all seem to be with wide 26" or smaller wheels.

The hub got through without being intercepted. Mind you, almost everything that comes through is marked well down in value, and alot mis-identified too.

I made my own battery pack and so bought the batteries, case, controller & case, throttle, PAS, and brakes all via separate sellers on AliExpress.

[Deleted User]

deadlast wrote: »

Hi guys, I've read about half of this thread so far. Good info and very interesting.

I've an old 28" wheel Giant hybrid here I'm thinking of putting a front hub and small battery on.

Anyone recommend a bargain kit? I see Unkel got a 36v 500w kit for £139 but I can't seem to find anything cheap as that. Don't want to get hit with customs either.

a 28 inch wheel will put a lot of stress on a little 500 watt motor because the larger the wheel diameter.

Larger wheel diameter the less torque you get the harder the motor has to work.

The smaller the diameter the more torque you get and the less stress on the motor.

You'd be better off going with a chain drive if you can. A BBS02 750 watt motor would be ideal and youc an use the bikes gearing for much better efficiency.

Maybe someone here can recommend a European supplier.

deadlast

Hi guys, I've read about half of this thread so far. Good info and very interesting.

I've an old 28" wheel Giant hybrid here I'm thinking of putting a front hub and small battery on.

Anyone recommend a bargain kit? I see Unkel got a 36v 500w kit for £139 but I can't seem to find anything cheap as that. Don't want to get hit with customs either.

Could I just buy the hub/controller/thumb throttle and battery separately and save a few quid? I've a great local bike shop that could build the hub into a wheel for me.

Front hub-
€ 68,92 21%OFF | Electric Bicycle MTB Brushless Non-gear Hub Motor Front Rear 36V 48V 250W 350W 500W 1000W 1500w Electric bike e bike
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKhGKJ9

Controller:-
€ 11,08 25%OFF | 36V/48V 350W Electric Bicycle Controller/ebike controller for e-bike scooter dual mode brushless hall sensor/sensorless
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOwQGO3

John Hutton

So I've been using my Bafang BBS02 for a few months now, I love it.

With PAS limited to 25kph I get about 100km range from my 17.5ah, I have never ran it to empty. Basically on the flat the motor pulls very few Watts as I make my way under mostly my own steam. The motor kicks in on starting off and pulls me up hills.

Recently it started to get a little noisy so I greased it as in the below video:

Its very quiet now, there was not much grease in it when I opened it up.

If anyone is getting this motor they should just do the greasing immediately.

fixXxer

Would ye have any opinions on this?

championc

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Anyone any recommendations for a front wheel hub kit?
I found an Imortor 3.0 kit.
Just looking for a cheap and reliable kit that I can fit to an old mountain bike.
I don't mind a bit of DIY to install it, but want something that's going to be easy enough to use for a novice cyclist.

I did a full DIY build for my Dad's bike, with all parts bought on AliExpress. Since I had a 28" x 1.25" front wheel, I couldn't find a supplier doing built wheels so I bought a hub (250w @ 36v) and then Joe Daly's in Dundrum provided the rim (40), the correct length spokes (40), and laced the wheel (40). So I got the wheel I needed but was obviously over 200 just for it. All other parts were pretty cheap.

Very enjoyable project

jackofalltrades

Anyone any recommendations for a front wheel hub kit?
I found an Imortor 3.0 kit.
Just looking for a cheap and reliable kit that I can fit to an old mountain bike.
I don't mind a bit of DIY to install it, but want something that's going to be easy enough to use for a novice cyclist.

championc

I recently built a bike for my Dad, from his current bike. I bought a legal 250w 36v motor and I have to say, even for myself, it more than fast enough.

unkel

Front wheel kit, why not. Easier to install and for a low power 250W pedelec road legal kit it matters very little where the power is coming from.

Their lower capacity kits are much better value for money. They make more margin / profit on the higher capacity kits (cost €20 more in batteries, sell for €100 more, you get the idea)