Rodney Bathgate wrote: » blackface is offensive but whiteface isn’t?
Gervais08 wrote: » Why not?? If “blackface” to make fun of those with dark skin is wrong then why isn’t that ?
Deleted User wrote: » Because white people generally don't have a victim complex. Not yet anyway. There's little to be outraged over, since white people don't make any real claims of connection with other white people as a race. Whereas with Black people, such claims of being connected, united, abused together are common. For the same reason, you don't really see outrage from Asians over silly presentations of them except on a national level (China), but not purely on a racial one. The problem with representing black people (or Muslims) is that any perceived negative representation is an insult to the overall group. There's enough activists involved to have a crusade over it, and raise the level of outrage. Whereas there's very few activists who care about white racial issues, and typically, they're relegated into the far right camp, and so their objections are dismissed immediately.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Calling it a victim complex is a bit much. They were enslaved until relatively recently in the USA and still are treated like 2nd class citizens in many ways, so white people dressing up in blackface could be seen by black people as mockery of them. I find the "what about about whiteface!!!" people far worse than overly sensitive black people tbh.
Gervais08 wrote: » I do hate to break it to you but life wasn’t fun for us here for 700 odd years either.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Calling it a victim complex is a bit much. They were enslaved until relatively recently in the USA and still are treated like 2nd class citizens in many ways, so white people dressing up in blackface could be seen by black people as mockery of them. I mean Irish people were freaking out back in the 90s when Eastenders did some episodes here and portrayed us as drunkards and a bit backwards. It was all over the news. I find the "what about about whiteface!!!" people far worse than overly sensitive black people tbh.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Calling it a victim complex is a bit much. They were enslaved until relatively recently in the USA and still are treated like 2nd class citizens in many ways, so white people dressing up in blackface could be seen by black people as mockery of them.
I mean Irish people were freaking out back in the 90s when Eastenders did some episodes here and portrayed us as drunkards and a bit backwards. It was all over the news. I find the "what about about whiteface!!!" people far worse than overly sensitive black people tbh.
Deleted User wrote: » Did I say African Americans? I said Black people. You've just shown exactly what I meant. The association is there automatically...
Tombo2001 wrote: » There's little to be outraged over. Full stop.
Its nothing to do with "not connecting with other white people".....
The term Victim Complex is really appalling, it gives the impression of people who are just making the whole thing up, which couldnt be further from the truth.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Black Americans seem to set the tone for black culture in UK/Europe and around the world, and their struggle has been similar in other countries too
Deleted User wrote: » Well, actually, we could find plenty to be outraged over as a racial group if we really wanted to... but as I said, White people generally don't see themselves that way, whereas other racial groups do.
Tombo2001 wrote: » Go on, hit me with what you have on this front. Obviously white people have been victimised by other white people, the Irish and Jews to the forefront there. But thats not what we are talking about here. On your other point - I have argued in the follow up post on why white people dont connect in the same way, its pretty clear.
Tombo2001 wrote: » The other more pertinent point to your comment about 'not connecting with other white people'
So you shouldnt use that as a stick to beat them with
Deleted User wrote: » Well, actually, we could find plenty to be outraged over as a racial group if we really wanted to... but as I said, White people generally don't see themselves that way, whereas other racial groups do. Why not? You've just dismissed the point, not argued against it.No, it suggests that they embraced an identity that revolves around being a victim, and thus, not being responsible for their failures as a people. Because victims are never responsible for their situation. Many countries throughout the last 80 years, have emerged from colonial backgrounds, or hostile occupations, and became successful in their own right. When we look at the majority of nations with Black people we see the opposite, even though they've been on the receiving end of aid from Western nations for decades. That is what I meant about a victim complex. The embracing of an excuse for failures to move past their historical problems. ie. colonialism. It's a handy excuse for 60 plus years of disorder, genocide, corruption, war, etc.
Deleted User wrote: » Ahh... I understand now. This is about taking a slice of a sentence out of context, and arguing against that slice. Right. Ok. :eek: Seriously? You are really showing me that you're not worth engaging with when you turn to this kind of rubbish.
Tombo2001 wrote: » There's little to be outraged over. Full stop. Here is a list of places that have been colonised by white Europeans. All of North America All of South America Most of Africa Most of Asia. Australia and New Zealand. Its nothing to do with "not connecting with other white people"..... The term Victim Complex is really appalling, it gives the impression of people who are just making the whole thing up, which couldnt be further from the truth.
Tombo2001 wrote: » Grand, now you are the one not debating the point I made, not defending your own claims, but instead targeting me personally. Best of luck.
Bambi wrote: » I have to say we made a fist of North America and the Southern Hemisphere, from the stone age to top tier nations states in no time. Asia and Africa were colonised for about a 100 years or less, most of the Asians have made a go of it since, Africa is not much better than when we found it. At some stage, we're going to have to admit that the problems are not about colonialism.
Gervais08 wrote: » I was roundly shouted down for this once but look at South Africa since the colonists have been replaced by the indigenous people - violence, rape, murder - how is that “better” ?
Yellow_Fern wrote: » Black people are not indigenous in South Africa. The San people were indigenous but they have been wiped out. There are plenty of African success stories but South Africa isnt one of them, perhaps because a vast system of positive discrimination introduced in the 90s.
Yellow_Fern wrote: » You are right that it is not colonialisms fault but its not necessarily people fault either. The economic potential of different regions is vastly different. Many African countries have population densities far lower than Europe because the land is so bad. In contrast India and China have always been densely populate dplaces and generally have been very wealthy regions. India only started growing properly in the 1990s as it was a highly socialised country before then but its stomping performance since.
Bambi wrote: » Southern Hemisphere, meaning New Zealand and Australia in this context. Both being overwhelmingly European.
Th good people of South Africa are free to forge their own destiny now, if that means making a complete pigs mickey of it, then thats their look out.
Yellow_Fern wrote: » Black people are not indigenous in South Africa. The San people were indigenous but they have been wiped out.
Deleted User wrote: » Both of which were sparsely populated even before the colonists came.
Tombo2001 wrote: » (ii) Lets go some through countries that have emerged from Colonial backgrounds.
India - one of the poorest countries on the planet with population growth out of control.
Pakistan, Bangladesh, similar poverty levels.
Argentina, frequent bankruptcies Venezuela in free fall at present.
While some African countries are beginning to become more prosperous - ghana would be a good example - circa 70 years after independence. Which is about the length of time it took Ireland to get its act together.
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