AbusesToilets wrote: » Youre always going to lose a physical battle having one out runners against 2 man tackles. Leinster were brain dead in how they approached the game. I'd argue Leinster and Ireland's biggest deficiency is a mental one, in that they haven't shown an ability to adapt to pressure. Leinster needed leadership on the pitch to change up what they were doing. Very disappointed that guys like Sexton and Ringrose didn't manage that
Guinness RFC wrote: » Size becomes an issue when you don’t have an extremely well drilled, committed set of forwards who are athletes. For example would an Ireland U20’s side survive vs full Ireland side? No they’d be eaten alive physically despite being professional athletes who train together the same amount of time as the full senior squad. Size is a factor but it can be overcome with the right coaching, drilling of forwards and style of play. One way to counteract it is to hit rucks in 2’s and 3’s as opposed to individuals hitting on 3 separate entries. Double Hitting the ball carrier in a tackle by two players. Sure it sucks in more defenders but if you knock him backwards and win the resulting ruck by 3 teammates hitting it like ravenous animals it negates that. Commitment counts for everything but sometimes if it’s the larger team doing the things I said like Sarries wolf pack do then size becomes a factor.
Buer wrote: » Furlong is one guy and wasn't around at the weekend. Ryan is a great player but he's not a monster. He's a big unit but would still give us several kilos to most other test locks. The Irish and Leinster websites have him as 106kg which is almost certainly incorrect but I still wouldn't put him at any more than 112kg. That would be very light for a test lock. You'd be hard pressed to find too many others who are coming in under 115kg. Our back rowers are fairly average in size. Conan is a solid size but Doris isn't carrying much bulk and relies more on dynamism and identifying space. Stander is the closest we have to it in terms of someone who is very robust physically and is heavier than people would expect. Ruddock would be the other. Connors and VDF are very lightweight for top level flankers. They're completely dependent on work rate and technique. POM isn't a big bloke eithter and again relies more on smarts than power. We've guys like Penny coming through who simply aren't going to cut it at test level ever due to their size. Hodnett and O'Sullivan in Munster are great athletes but again, very small. Josh Murphy is someone that could potentially put on another few kg and be an option. Coombes is another. But they're probably not as talented rugby players as others. I was listening to OTB last night and had to laugh when Barnes or Toland (can't recall which) was discussing how NZ overcome this issue with an incredibly high skill level. When they won in 2015, their pack was filled with guys who had brilliant skills but they were also monsters physically; four of their front five were 120kg+. We're never going to compete with teams regularly with power and are going to have to be smarter and more accurate to win games. It's nothing new. We've always been smaller than a lot of other teams.
UAEguy2020 wrote: » I agree but I don’t think size is the issue, with basically the same pack we didn’t get smashed in 2018 like in 2019. We have someone like Leavy to come back in who I believe is the most underrated forward we have produced in recent years and for me is up there with the likes of Underhill and I believe he was a big missing link and I think is an example of why size isn’t our issue. Along with him being a tank he also has imo the best rugby brain in the Irish pack and therefore doesn’t run into contact all the time, he is always looking for space and to offload which sets defenders and I personally think other players follow his lead when he does this. At Munster I think Knox is a tank but also I think you have players like Hodnett and O’Sullivan who are both beasts and have really good rugby IQ’s which will be a huge lift (I will be fuming is Hodnett isn’t our 7 in the CC this year, just what we are crying out for), you also have players like Wycherley and Coombes for example who can get us going around the park. I also think Ahern is someone who needs to be fast tracked, maybe in exadurating but I believe he will be our best SR in 2023, one of the best prospects I have seen come through in Irish rugby in recent times.
Buer wrote: » I've seen this assumption made a number of times in the past as people often equate Wales and Ireland in rugby circles. The Welsh pack is big. Very big. The team that was in the RWC and got to the semi final had two props of 120kg and 130kg respectively. Gethin Jenkins, Samson Lee and Adam Jones also were all over 120kg. Luke Charteris, Jake Ball and AWJ are all 120kg+. Their back row is often lighter but they just churn out phenomenal athletes and exceptionally skilled wing forwards for fun. Their centres are usually over 100kg (Parkes and Davies both are as were Roberts and Scott Williams). North is a monster of a winger. Adams isn't a monster but he'd be bigger than average. Gatland made it his business to select massive teams with Wales more often than not.
shootermacg wrote: » I'm not sure all this talk of size is relevant at all. Wales are a small team but England's size doesn't seem to worry them. That is because they have world class fielders.
Niallof9 wrote: » For me its both though. We still need the odd monster. And we do produce them but for whatever reason they are either the weakest, or as i fear are perceived as the weaker. I mean the 120kg man isn't going to win your shuttle training etc. I mean they are capable of it. Henderson on Estebeth. Ryan etc. Obviously we miss peak SOB and further back somebody like Wallace. But it looks like Munster have both a beast and a great carrier coming through in two positions. lets start blooding them.
UAEguy2020 wrote: » Exactly, what annoys me also is we keep lying to ourselves and thinking if we get a bunch of monsters things will be better...not if they keep walking into contact and waiting to get absolutely smashed they will! The big issue I think is the Scots and Welsh look for space but the Irish look for contact. I don’t think there is a better image out there than the one in the RWC where Kearney is presenting the ball on the ground and you have 4 Irish covering the ruck and not one kiwi insight...what brain power went into that?
Niallof9 wrote: » Our carrying has been atrocious for some time. A hangover of the Schmidt era when hitting a body and creating the ruck was paramount. Ryans carry against Itoje was a good example of what we've been missing.
shootermacg wrote: » I'm not sure all this talk of size is relevant at all. Wales are a small team but England's size doesn't seem to worry them. That is because they have world class fielders. England play the same game against them as they do against us but it usually results in a Welsh counter attack. The reason for this is Wales have superb back 3 players. People have given RK a lot of stick in the past about his attack, but that's probably 10% of what it takes to be a back 3 player. The nearest we have is Addison, but god knows when he'll be fit again.
Buer wrote: » I was listening to OTB last night and had to laugh when Barnes or Toland (can't recall which) was discussing how NZ overcome this issue with an incredibly high skill level. When they won in 2015, their pack was filled with guys who had brilliant skills but they were also monsters physically; four of their front five were 120kg+.
OneLungDavy wrote: » Billy Vunipola would have been a prop if he played in Ireland.
Niallof9 wrote: » Well i have a friend who is a coach and he told me Simon Easterbuy was shocked that he was cut he had presumed he was an exile or the like as they were all watching some sevens footage last December as a coaching group. However the Connacht forum, people said he wasn't cut but turned down a contract. People will say his defence is crap. It hasn't stopped Stockdale. We do have big powerful lads but we must look at conditioning. Our lads are fit but there does seem to be a case of us going down the lithe NZ route. Which means we can be bullied but be able to get within a score in the 70th minute. I suppose its tiny margins and just the nature of rugby now. It was obvious during the World Cup and it failed badly for us. I do question whether a Costello or the like would make it anymore in Ireland. Vunipola in an Irish system would be told to trim down i'm guessing which is not his game. Personally i much prefer having a few monsters in the pack.
hahashake wrote: » A couple of thoughts from an outsider perspective: - Surprised at all the comments about the Irish pack lacking size/power. Ryan and Furlong are two of the biggest and meanest baby-eaters in world rugby and the backrow prospects aren't lacking for size. Leinster really missed Furlong on the weekend. - Surprised a guy like Conroy from the 7s seemingly hasn't been able to make the step into the 15 man game (excuse my ignorance if he has been and failed). Genuine blistering pace.
kuang1 wrote: » I'd have Marmion ahead of everyone.
Squidgy Black wrote: » What's the story with Gallagher actually, has he been injured? I would've thought he'd have been in the mix if he kicked on in the couple of games there's been, he had started to make a fair impression with Sarries the season before.
thomond2006 wrote: » Haley is solid defensively and has good footwork but I don't think he's good enough. He's also played a lot of rugby between his time at Sale and Munster so I don't think he's much room to improve. I'd look at Daly as someone who hasn't reached his ceiling yet.
shootermacg wrote: » I'd like to see Daly, Haley brought into the squad. Both about 6'3 good in the air, good tacklers Haley is probably the better attacker, but Daly is very solid all round.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wa.vanillicon.com/v2/ad289898c0c6dda7e667bf900ae26d0c.svg)
