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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Ten of Swords

Part 1 here

All mod warnings from part 1 remain in effect

All thread bans from part 1 remain in effect

Threadbans Thread 2

Hqrry113

Carry on...

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FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Would you stop calling criminal thuggery a "war/conflict". And stop calling it "inevitable". Sick of Sinn Fein speak

No.

It isn't SF speak. The Church Of Ireland and many Unionists and British knew what would happen when it was done.

All war and conflict involves 'thuggery'. You may have been watching too many British 'oh what a lovely war' movies?

Hamsterchops

The army was a blunt tool, they did their best under intense pressure from both (Extremes) of the divide. Caught between a rock & a hard place trying to defuse (literally) & combat terrorism from both traditions.

Some bad apples mixed in, some bad decisions yes of course, but they didn't wake up in the morning with the intent of planting a 500lb bomb on a High Street, bus or in shopping centre! Mostly the security forces on both sides of the border were up against it, and they did their best.

PS: It wasn't a "War" in the true sense. Civil unrest and Terrorism within the United Kingdom, with a bit of overspill into the ROI.

mynamejeff

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not even the IRA supports it, given that they have addressed the fact that it was wrong.

Get off that horse Jeff.

sort of an important horse though isn't it ?

apologists and whataboutery all day every day with you two isn't it

putting criminals and murderers in government and we might as well stick in the kinahans or hutchs

mynamejeff

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The army was blunt tool, they did their best under intended pressure from both sides of the divide. Caught between a rock & a hard place trying to defuse (literally) & combat terrorism from both traditions.

Some bad apples mixed in, some bad decisions yes of course, but they didn't wake up in the morning with the intent of planting a 500lb bomb on a High Street, bus or in shopping centre! Mostly the security forces on both sides of the border were up against it, and they did their best.

PS: It wasn't a "War" in the true sense. Civil unrest and Terrorism within the United Kingdom, with a bit of overspill into the ROI.

oooo!!!! your gona trigger the bots now :pac::pac:

FrancieBrady

mynamejeff wrote: »

sort of an important horse though isn't it ?

apologists and whataboutery all day every day with you two isn't it

putting criminals and murderers in government and we might as well stick in the kinahans or hutchs

You are being forced to vote for SF now?

I signed up to the GFA, took me a long time to accept that SF were ready for government. I believe they are now.

I didn't set an impenetrable ceiling for them, like some. Who are foaming at the mouth now because the agreement they pretend to support is working.
SF are as much a part of the democratic fold as FF and FG are (all three having come out of a conflict/war situation and embraced democratic politics)

Nobody has taken away your democratic right NOT to vote for them.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are being forced to vote for SF now?

I signed up to the GFA, took me a long time to accept that SF were ready for government. I believe they are now.

I didn't set an impenetrable ceiling for them, like some. Who are foaming at the mouth now because the agreement they pretend to support is working.
SF are as much a part of the democratic fold as FF and FG are (all three having come out of a conflict/war situation and embraced democratic politics)

Nopbody has taken your democratic right NOT to vote for them.

SF still have a sitting TD who is linked to 50 murders. Murphy up North still goes to a dude called Ted Howell to ask for advice on how to proceed.

Not a normal party.

Hamsterchops

A conflict within the United Kingdom.

Wars usually involve two States against each other. Two countries against each other, whereas the Troubles raged within the UK.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

SF still have a sitting TD who is linked to 50 murders. Murphy up North still goes to a dude called Ted Howell to ask for advice on how to proceed.

Not a normal party.

If you want to pretend that SF were not involved in a conflict/war then that is your problem.

Of course they are not a 'normal' party in that respect. I don't know why you think that phrase has a shock value.

Yeah_Right

Truthvader wrote: »

I will defend the British Army where I think they behaved well. Not murders and Bloody Sunday etc.

Would you support them as they were attacked by Loyalist thugs or as they escorted the children of Holy Cross to school through a wall of baying animals?

It may be that you are so infected by the Sinn Fein IRA mindset that even when the Army are protecting "your side" you are so filled with hate you cant admit it.

Met a lot of British Army back in the day and they all said two things. 1. The RUC caused a lot of the trouble. 2. The whole province was a toxic cesspit and they couldn't wait to get out. Not one of them had the slightest interest in one side over the other

I know a few lads who served up there as well and they all say the same thing. I remember one of them commenting one year (around the time of the Orange parades) that the best thing to do would be to carpet bomb the entire place and start again.

dundalkfc10

mynamejeff wrote: »

sort of an important horse though isn't it ?

apologists and whataboutery all day every day with you two isn't it

putting criminals and murderers in government and we might as well stick in the kinahans or hutchs

Name the Sinn Fein TD(s) in the Republic who hs convictions for murder?

Can you also provide a list of all Sinn Ferin TDs in the Republics, criminal convictions.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

A conflict within the United Kingdom.

Wars usually involve two States against each other. Two countries against each other, whereas the Troubles raged within the UK.

War of the Roses?

I use conflict/war so you can chose what to call it. Who cares, over 3000 people are dead, I doubt the head of a pin nonsense about what it was bothers them.

****ing hell the things the high moral grounders get their knicks in a twist about.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you want to pretend that SF were not involved in a conflict/war then that is your problem.

Of course they are not a 'normal' party in that respect. I don't know why you think that phrase has a shock value.

You said you feel they are now ready for Government. I'm just putting it out there that they still go for advice and strategy to unelected individuals based in West Belfast. You might think that is ok. It isn't though, dude.

It's extremely sinister.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You said you feel they are now ready for Government. I'm just putting it out there that they still go for advice and strategy to unelected individuals based in West Belfast. You might think that is ok. It isn't though, dude.

It's extremely sinister.

So what? Do you think other political parties don't have backroom people and 'advisers' who are consulted?

Eamonn Ryan rubbished this nonsense and he was right.

grayzer75

It's a pity all the the FFG fanboys on here don't put in as much effort holding their masters to task over issues which are affecting people here and now e.g. mental health.

Instead they spend the whole day going on a whataboutery tour of boards posting about Sinn Fein or the IRA being the only bad things that ever happened in the country, most of which is pure horse****.

5,500 people took their own lives in this country between 2001 and 2016 whilst your parties decimated mental health services and supports so start focussing your energy where it's needed here and now because it's getting worse by the day.

https://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Truthvader

grayzer75 wrote: »

It's a pity all the the FFG fanboys on here don't put in as much effort holding their masters to task over issues which are affecting people here and now e.g. mental health.

Instead they spend the whole day going on a whataboutery tour of boards posting about Sinn Fein or the IRA being the only bad things that ever happened in the country, most of which is pure horse****.

5,500 people took their own lives in this country between 2001 and 2016 whilst your parties decimated mental health services and supports so start focussing your energy where it's needed here and now because it's getting worse by the day.

https://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

And todays Whataboutery Illogical Leap Prize goes to..............

Truthvader

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You said you feel they are now ready for Government. I'm just putting it out there that they still go for advice and strategy to unelected individuals based in West Belfast. You might think that is ok. It isn't though, dude.

It's extremely sinister.

Yep, looked pretty ready for government with their second rate budget paramilitary display for the pretendy funeral of the dead criminal Bobby Story.

Its what sort of government is the problem

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

It's a pity all the the FFG fanboys on here don't put in as much effort holding their masters to task over issues which are affecting people here and now e.g. mental health.

Instead they spend the whole day going on a whataboutery tour of boards posting about Sinn Fein or the IRA being the only bad things that ever happened in the country, most of which is pure horse****.

5,500 people took their own lives in this country between 2001 and 2016 whilst your parties decimated mental health services and supports so start focussing your energy where it's needed here and now because it's getting worse by the day.

https://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

(1) Arrives into Sinn Fein thread

(2) Complains about whataboutery

(3) Posts something about mental health services completely unrelated to any topic on the thread.

Ironic.

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

I will defend the British Army where I think they behaved well. Not murders and Bloody Sunday etc.

Would you support them as they were attacked by Loyalist thugs or as they escorted the children of Holy Cross to school through a wall of baying animals?

It may be that you are so infected by the Sinn Fein IRA mindset that even when the Army are protecting "your side" you are so filled with hate you cant admit it.

Met a lot of British Army back in the day and they all said two things. 1. The RUC caused a lot of the trouble. 2. The whole province was a toxic cesspit and they couldn't wait to get out. Not one of them had the slightest interest in one side over the other

but you asked who was ever supporting the UDR - when you knew rightly at the time that you were.

i met a lot of them back in the day two. besides the ones who chased me out of a nightclub and down the street because of my religion (which considering I'd never even talked to them, surprised me. they seemed to know which people there were catholic and therefore make a good target)

besides those ones (whom the likes of some on here would argue are non-existent in the BA) you could tell some soldiers didnt want to be there at all. Others though should have just joined the highly sectarian UDR as they were only there for one reason: harass catholics.

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

And todays Whataboutery Illogical Leap Prize goes to..............

you'd be the right one to award it anyway - you've held the prize for long enough yourself

Tokyo

maccored wrote: »

Truthvader wrote: »

And todays Whataboutery Illogical Leap Prize goes to..............

you'd be the right one to award it anyway - you've held the prize for long enough yourself

Mod: Both of you can take 48 hours away from the thread for the smartarsery. Next time will be permanent.

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I know a few lads who served up there as well and they all say the same thing. I remember one of them commenting one year (around the time of the Orange parades) that the best thing to do would be to carpet bomb the entire place and start again.

And that was the problem. The British Army should never have been there in the first place (though it suited them for trying out ''stuff'' where there wouldn't be human rights people looking over their shoulder). The UN Peacekeepers (neutral and trained peacekeepers) should have been brought in, not the British Army.

Hamsterchops

jm08 wrote: »

And that was the problem. The British Army should never have been there in the first place (though it suited them for trying out ''stuff'' where there wouldn't be human rights people looking over their shoulder). The UN Peacekeepers (neutral and trained peacekeepers) should have been brought in, not the British Army.

I've heard of this suggestion before and I guess there's some merit in it, but just imagine the same Troubles breaking out in Spain for example, with the Basque separatist group ETA instead of the IRA firing the shots, would the Spanish authorities have dellt with it themselves or invited in the UN?

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

And that was the problem. The British Army should never have been there in the first place (though it suited them for trying out ''stuff'' where there wouldn't be human rights people looking over their shoulder).

The history of the rubber/plastic bullet being a case in point.

mynamejeff

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are being forced to vote for SF now?

I signed up to the GFA, took me a long time to accept that SF were ready for government. I believe they are now.

I didn't set an impenetrable ceiling for them, like some. Who are foaming at the mouth now because the agreement they pretend to support is working.
SF are as much a part of the democratic fold as FF and FG are (all three having come out of a conflict/war situation and embraced democratic politics)

Nobody has taken away your democratic right NOT to vote for them.

I don't an wont vote sf/ira

as long as they are linked to criminality

and its going to take at least a few generations for that taint to fade ,

you agree yourself that sf isn't a normal party why should they be treated as such

FrancieBrady

mynamejeff wrote: »

I don't an wont vote sf/ira

as long as they are linked to criminality

and its going to take at least a few generations for that taint to fade ,

you agree yourself that sf isn't a normal party why should they be treated as such

I don't treat them as 'such' I doubt anyone does. Nor do I treat the DUP or any party that navigated the conflict/war as 'normal'. Society is not anywhere near normal because of the partition that is still causing issues. How could a political party be therefore 'normal'?

Or democracy is normal though...you don't HAVE to vote for them.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't treat them as 'such' I doubt anyone does. Nor do I treat the DUP or any party that navigated the conflict/war as 'normal'. Society is not anywhere near normal because of the partition that is still causing issues. How could a political party be therefore 'normal'?

Or democracy is normal though...you don't HAVE to vote for them.

Given that Sinn Fein aren't even considered normal by their most fervent supporters, is it surprising that Leo and Micheal weren't prepared to go into government with them.

mynamejeff

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't treat them as 'such' I doubt anyone does. Nor do I treat the DUP or any party that navigated the conflict/war as 'normal'. Society is not anywhere near normal because of the partition that is still causing issues. How could a political party be therefore 'normal'?

Or democracy is normal though...you don't HAVE to vote for them.

I d say a lot of people still have that opinion of sf , if there was a reputable honest political party in Ireland no one would have any interest in sf but there isn't imo

nor should you treat the dup as any different to sf , they are both strongly linked to their recent criminal past and ongoing activities.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that Sinn Fein aren't even considered normal by their most fervent supporters, is it surprising that Leo and Micheal weren't prepared to go into government with them.

To everyone bar party apparatchiks FF opened the door to going into government with SF after the election and gave the game away.

The 'game' is, they are prepared to go into government with SF if it comes down to it. But only on the basis of how they went in with other parties before -w hen they are 'in control' as the largest party. When it emerged that FF were not going to be a large enough party to be in control, the door shut again.

FG and FF are petrified about losing control, hence the gradual merger/coalescing as SF knock louder on the gates.

It's truly gas watching the knicker twisting going on about this.

grayzer75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To everyone bar party apparatchiks FF opened the door to going into government with SF after the election and gave the game away.

The 'game' is, they are prepared to go into government with SF if it comes down to it. But only on the basis of how they went in with other parties before -w hen they are 'in control' as the largest party. When it emerged that FF were not going to be a large enough party to be in control, the door shut again.

FG and FF are petrified about losing control, hence the gradual merger/coalescing as SF knock louder on the gates.

It's truly gas watching the knicker twisting going on about this.

The last election proved that FFG are two cheeks of the same arse.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the question is , 'did the murder of a toddler bring results' then yes...

Oh lord! Tell me exactly what results killing a 3 year old boy achieved? Be precise now.
Did it free NI from the clutches of the British?
Did it give the people of NI untold riches and raised their quality of life?
Did it make the place un-sectarian?

No, no and no is the answer to all them.
Killing a toddler did nothing for Nationalists in the North.

Tell me if that boy was not killed and lived, would life in NI be that much different?

They all brought results and we are debating WHAT THOSE RESULTS were not the morality of the actions.

What results did the killing of Lyra McKee achieve? Since we are going down the road that pretty much any unlawful killing in the name of a political goal is moral now.

I am of the opinion that the cause of a certain amount of violence on this island is partition.

Oh, softening your position now? Only a certain amount?
When Lyra McKee was murdered by the New IRA you were quick out of the traps telling us all that partition killed her, not the terrorists who killed her.
Victim blaming at its finest.