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Nvidia RTX Discussion

K.O.Kiki

A new era in 3D graphics stands before us.

First-gen Raytracing GPUs:

Nvidia "Turing" - Quadro RTX 5000 / 6000 / 8000 (US$ 2'300 / 6'300 / 10'000)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13214/nvidia-reveals-next-gen-turing-gpu-architecture
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13217/nvidia-announces-turing-powered-quadro-rtx-family

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Shlippery

mad turnip wrote: »

My 3080 from overclockers arrived today. Hopefully everyone elses ships soon.

pics or it didn't happen :pac:

do share!

jebidiah

I honestly don't understand why people are not waiting for the super or ti cards to be released. Jumping on 3080 now or the 3070 when it launches seems a bit foolish to me. You know another card is around the corner. Especially the poster with the 2070s!

BloodBath

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You can't tell what the VRAM usage is, only the allocation. Currently the only real way to test is via a game engine debug, probably some internal chip maker tools or just testing cards with different vram amounts to see noticeable differences in performance.

I really doubt that 4k gaming comes close to 10gig of vram and Nvidia knows it. And anything above is unplayable.

That may well be true for the here and now. It won't be true in the near future when consoles have 12gb of available memory for games.

errlloyd wrote: »

I find the "rebenchmarking" of premium card pricing really interesting. I have only rekindled my interest in Pc Gaming during Lockdown. But I wonder if any of you have any observations about how that has changed over the past 15 years or so?

It seems that a premium card would have been €250e at launch in 2005. Nvidia monopoly and an aging cohort of gamers with more money seems to have inflated that hugely. But the other aspects of a gaming build would have been more costly - for example Processors, MBoards and Ram have come down in price or stayed the same because they are also used by non gamers?

Is that perception correct?

Comparing these cards to cards from 2005 is like comparing a modern sportscar to a 15 year old family hatchback.

They are inflated because they are far bigger and more advanced.

K.O.Kiki

Nvidia high-end pricing has remained constant once you factor in inflation.

errlloyd

Cool graph. Is the GeForce 2 Ultra equivalent to the 3080 or 3090 though?

Wonda-Boy

Another reason why the VRAM only 10GB is pricing. If nVidia had more VRAM on the 3080 the price would be higher, and not so attractive. Having said that, peeps would still be going bat **** crazy for it anyway.

I was in Kerry for a few days on the bike so was away for the launch so was never gonna be able to get a 3080. But I can wait for the other variants no probs.

BloodBath

It wouldn't be much higher.

There's 2 unused memory slots available on the board for 2gb more. Do you really think an extra 2gb of memory would inflate the price by much?

It would at least bring it in line with what the consoles have.

Cordell

Probably it's not the chips themselves, but the requirement that the GPU must have no defective memory channels is what can drive the price up.

Cordell

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Nvidia high-end pricing has remained constant once you factor in inflation.

I'm not sure the graph is right, some of those in there are the absolute top end single GPU cards of their time (e.g. 6800 Ultra Extreme), and some are not, instead of the supers and Ti's it should be the Titans and 3090.
But fair point otherwise.

BloodBath

Titans are not gaming cards and they don't target the gamer market. I'd argue the 3090 is not strictly for gamers either.

You might as well stick the top end ai/server cards or quadros up there then as well.

Cordell

Even so, with 2080ti and 3090 (which is sold as a gaming GPU) it will be literally off the chart

BloodBath

They are selling it as a gaming GPU to people with more money than sense. It's still a developer/designer card while being a good gaming card at the same time.

They are the only ones that can make use of the memory and it's the only card in the lineup to support SLI which is pretty dead for gaming.

djivide_

BloodBath wrote: »

It wouldn't be much higher.

There's 2 unused memory slots available on the board for 2gb more. Do you really think an extra 2gb of memory would inflate the price by much?

It would at least bring it in line with what the consoles have.

Its not that it would inflate the price but it would make the 3090 only a couple of percent faster than the 3080 for twice the price. moving from 320bit to 384bit memory bus would knock out most of the performance advantage the 3090 has.

so nvidia gimped the 3080 so they could sell the much more profitable cards.

on the other side of it the 3080 is a cut down 3090 so will have defective sections in the chip so could have faulty memory controllers so makes it easier to get higher yields or usable chips per wafer if only using 10/12 memory connections but i personally think its nvidia being greedy and wanting as many 3090 sales as possible as there is huge profit on those cards. the extra 14 memory chips works out about £140 but the card is £750 more.

a 3080 ti with 12gb 384bit bus, ie all single sided memory chips populated with ~9472 cuda cores (74 SM) vs 68(3080) or 82(3090) would be an interesting card and might well pop out down the road in big navi puts some pressure on nvidia (one can hope)

BloodBath

So it is using 2 sided memory with 24 memory chips then?

Surely the power delivery needs to be better then. It also has NVlink SLI.

Not saying it's good value but compared to titans it's less than half the price.

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Nvidia high-end pricing has remained constant once you factor in inflation.

Thats a odd graph. Seems to pretend like the 2080ti didn't exist(huge price increase). Or the Titan cards(which were the top end gaming gpu's, marketing as semi production cards) also were not a thing. Just because Nvidia rebrands its top end GPU, doesn't not make it the top end GPU.

The original Titan was 999, not 699.
The Titan X was 999, not 649.
Titan X and XP, were 1200 not 699.
RTX titan was 2500 and 2080ti was 1000+ easy.

Also, I haven't been seeing nvidia cards sold for near MSRP for a while. Nvidia even piggy backed to charge more for the founders editions because they knew the MSRP was a pile of ****e.

djivide_

Its also not getting proper professional titan drivers. its only getting the geforce drivers.

I'm not saying it does not have a purpose and anyone that would use the full 24gb of ram on the 3090 for production work then it is very good value looking at past titan cards but even nvidia say its a titan class card not a titan.

Again I kinda expect a Full die titan to appear down the road build on tsmc rather than samsung given the fact that ampere data center cards (A100) are built on tsmc which is supposed to be a lot better in regards power requirements to hit the performance levels but more expensive than samsung. rumours were nvidia tried to low ball tmsc by saying they would go to samsung but it bit them in the ass in the long run.

BloodBath

I think it was more of a case of TSMC's 7nm foundries already being at max capacity. The same reason we aren't getting RDNA2 until 2021.

Ryzen and console manufacturing along with other contracts have pushed them to their capacity.

K.O.Kiki

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Thats a odd graph. Seems to pretend like the 2080ti didn't exist(huge price increase). Or the Titan cards(which were the top end gaming gpu's, marketing as semi production cards) also were not a thing. Just because Nvidia rebrands its top end GPU, doesn't not make it the top end GPU.

The original Titan was 999, not 699.
The Titan X was 999, not 649.
Titan X and XP, were 1200 not 699.
RTX titan was 2500 and 2080ti was 1000+ easy.

Also, I haven't been seeing nvidia cards sold for near MSRP for a while. Nvidia even piggy backed to charge more for the founders editions because they knew the MSRP was a pile of ****e.

I'm not including Titan cards on that graph, and the GTX 1080 & 2080 prices were calculated from FE prices (not MSRP).

Darwin

Just cancelled my amazon.de preorder for the Zotac as I ordered quite late in the day. It's day 5 tomorrow and amazon will now charge for any preorders, don't fancy waiting for an unknown amount of time with this on my CC bill. If you ordered early in the day, its probably worth waiting to keep your place in the queue.

Edit: worth mentioning that I preordered the Samsung Odyssey G9 monitor last June with amazon UK and was never charged anything before I eventually cancelled late August. So not sure what they might do here.

Squidgy Black

Darwin wrote: »

Just cancelled my amazon.de preorder for the Zotac as I ordered quite late in the day. It's day 5 tomorrow and amazon will now charge for any preorders, don't fancy waiting for an unknown amount of time with this on my CC bill. If you ordered early in the day, its probably worth waiting to keep your place in the queue.

Edit: worth mentioning that I preordered the Samsung Odyssey G9 monitor last June with amazon UK and was never charged anything before I eventually cancelled late August. So not sure what they might do here.

If you haven't been charged yet they'll just cancel the order. I've cancelled orders from amazon a few times before they've been charged and nothing ever hits my card in the end.

Darwin

Yep, just wanted to get in before the charge potentially lands. I've had hundreds of orders from amazon over the years but I wasn't aware of this new policy until recently.

Bungusbeefcake

Darwin wrote: »

Just cancelled my amazon.de preorder for the Zotac as I ordered quite late in the day. It's day 5 tomorrow and amazon will now charge for any preorders, don't fancy waiting for an unknown amount of time with this on my CC bill. If you ordered early in the day, its probably worth waiting to keep your place in the queue.

Edit: worth mentioning that I preordered the Samsung Odyssey G9 monitor last June with amazon UK and was never charged anything before I eventually cancelled late August. So not sure what they might do here.

Yeah, could be a couple of days on that given: https://videocardz.com/newz/zotac-received-20000-orders-for-geforce-rtx-3080-trinity-through-amazon-alone

K.O.Kiki

Serephucus

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm not including Titan cards on that graph, and the GTX 1080 & 2080 prices were calculated from FE prices (not MSRP).

Titan cards are, for the most part, the same chip as the equivalent generation top end GTX cards, just not cut down through binning/segmentation. They are a perfect example of market segmentation, by enabling some features through drivers and changing the branding to justify the eye watering prices. In a competitive market, they would have never existed, they simply would have been the top end gaming product.

Nvidia makes 3 chips per generation, low(106), mid(104) and high(102) and bins them. Amd sort of follows the same pattern but its messy as hell with them. At the moment, Navi gen1 was really low and mid only and Vega desktop was the last attempt at a high end chip.

The last generation, the mid chip(104) was sold as the 2080, with the high chip(102) being sold as the 2080ti(cut down) and Titan.

This generation, the mid chip(104) is the 3070 and the high(102) chip starts at the cut down 3080. Thats with a slight wiff of competition in the market. If big Navi was to turn out better then expected, I would expect them to release the 3090ti with the top end high chip that would also go into the Titan.

BArra

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-3080-qa/

Cordell

On short, we were not prepared to deliver to this kind of demand. Either because we did not foresee it, or we did, but we launched anyway without building some stock in advance, because we did.

K.O.Kiki

The pessimist in me thinks they'll posture about "caring for the consumer" but they won't do anything different.

A sale is a sale; and scalpers have shown that they will buy up ALL the stock within seconds.
To Nvidia/partners, this means that their entire inventory is gone every time - 100% sold through.
So why should they care what happens to it afterwards? Unlike big-box partners like Amazon, they'll never even have to worry about stock returns.

The only headache they might face is from people irate that their GPUs have no warranty (as it's non-transferable for most models) - but again, not their problem.

frozenfrozen

I think the nvenc encoder is the same in a gtx 1660 as in the 3080/90. I wonder what's holding them up improving that when streaming so massive now

Cordell

Linus S. made a point: it's the mini-influencer, the group gamer geek, that drives a lot of sales. If your buddy passionate gamer gets one then it's very likely that you will get one as well, even if you don't really need it, so this is why they should care about how the product does after it's sold. Now a lot of them ended up in scalpers hands, and they don't drive the sales, only the second hand market.